Do the Ottawa Senators just give up the first pick this year

[theVladiator]

I'd wait and hope the NHL lessens the punishment, like they did for the Devils. Staois doesn't have the pull Lou does/did but there's precedent for the league scaling back on what was originally considered a steep penalty.

There is a similarity between NJ and Ottawa situation, the ownership change. At the same time, I do not think it was the most important factor in penalty reduction. It think in NJ case it was the fact that Kovalchuk's contract (bone of contention) was terminated and he went back to Russia, so that I think that would be the argument Lou was making to the NHL.

NJ did the same thing everybody was doing at the time. NHL just decided to make example out of NJ. NJ could point out to a number of teams whose (slightly less) outrageous contracts received zero punishment and ask "why us?". In Ottawa's case, I am not aware of anyone else misrepresenting contract issues of the players they are trading, so it's hard to compare Ottawa's punishment to those for similar misdeeds as a gauge of harshness.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Get it over with. Stupid f***ing thing.

 

[algernon]

There is a similarity between NJ and Ottawa situation, the ownership change. At the same time, I do not think it was the most important factor in penalty reduction. It think in NJ case it was the fact that Kovalchuk's contract (bone of contention) was terminated and he went back to Russia, so that I think that would be the argument Lou was making to the NHL.

NJ did the same thing everybody was doing at the time. NHL just decided to make example out of NJ. NJ could point out to a number of teams whose (slightly less) outrageous contracts received zero punishment and ask "why us?". In Ottawa's case, I am not aware of anyone else misrepresenting contract issues of the players they are trading, so it's hard to compare Ottawa's punishment to those for similar misdeeds as a gauge of harshness.

Are the contracts secret? I'd think the terms would be registered with the League and accessible to members of the League

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I think the pick should go to the ducks, since we were the ones who got screwed in that whole fiasco....

I'm only kidding, I think taking a first for that is another level of stupid.

I'd rather give the Ducks the first than Vegas that's for sure.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Are the contracts secret? I'd think the terms would be registered with the League and accessible to members of the League

They’re a secret, therein lies the whole problem, Bill Daly said the NHL has no knowledge of NTC’s and the respective teams on the lists.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It actually pisses me off that Ottawa is losing a pick over that. And I'm not even that much of a fan of the sens.

It was a screw up that had real negative implications for other teams.

A punishment was justified, but I think an argument can be made that a 1st round pick is too steep.

That kind of penalty would be fair if it was proven Pierre Dorion purposefully misled Vegas about Dadonov not having a NTC, when rather it's far more likely to be just another example of his legendary incompetence.

 

[theVladiator]

Are the contracts secret? I'd think the terms would be registered with the League and accessible to members of the League

The contracts being registered, and what terms info is available to other teams is an interesting topic in itself, but not relevant here. The issue in question is the NTC list. It is submitted to the current team, and is not shared with the league, or other teams for obvious reasons. If I recall correctly, Senators told VGK that the no-trade list wasn't submitted on time, and did not give it to VGK, but Dadonov's agent had receipts when the issue came up later.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The contracts being registered, and what terms info is available to other teams is an interesting topic in itself, but not relevant here.

it’s definitely relevant, it’s asinine the full details of a contract are not registered.
If a player wants a NTC and a team gets leaked, too bad,
But that’s just the dumb NHL.
Lebrun said they might look into it, but never heard anything.

 

[MXD]

This seems like an obvious yes, unless they already have a deal around that very pick, which is super unlikely.

Why do they have to make the decision?

 

[theVladiator]

it’s definitely relevant, it’s asinine the full details of a contract are not registered.
If a player wants a NTC and a team gets leaked, too bad,
But that’s just the dumb NHL.
Lebrun said they might look into it, but never heard anything.

The responsible party just needs to get done. And it makes perfect sense that the team that has the player under contract takes care of these details. Just because there was one management team that failed to take care of this simple job (unless it was purposeful deception?), doesn't mean that the NHL needs to hire a bunch of babysitters to save incompetent front offices from themselves.

I am not surprised there isn't much follow up. This wasn't the NHL problem. This was Dorion/Melnyk problem.

 

[StreetHawk]

We absolutely should but I have a feeling we won’t

NJ held on after the Kovy penalty and instead of losing the first, the nhl adjusted the penalty to move them back from like pick 12 or something in 2014 to the end of round 1 at pick 30 instead.

Not sure if ott wants to take their chances or that occurring as well?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

NJ held on after the Kovy penalty and instead of losing the first, the nhl adjusted the penalty to move them back from like pick 12 or something in 2014 to the end of round 1 at pick 30 instead.

Not sure if ott wants to take their chances or that occurring as well?

Good point, but the 32nd pick doesn’t move the needle much IMO with the top 10 being so stacked in next year’s draft.

New Jersey held onto their pick after making the finals and they finished bottom 10 the following year.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The responsible party just needs to get done. And it makes perfect sense that the team that has the player under contract takes care of these details. Just because there was one management team that failed to take care of this simple job (unless it was purposeful deception?), doesn't mean that the NHL needs to hire a bunch of babysitters to save incompetent front offices from themselves.

I am not surprised there isn't much follow up. This wasn't the NHL problem. This was Dorion/Melnyk problem.

NBA is fine with keeping track of them.
It’s makes the league look Mickey Mouse, not knowing what is in a players contract.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Good point, but the 32nd pick doesn’t move the needle much IMO with the top 10 being so stacked in next year’s draft.

It means moving back from 19 or 20 to 32, this year.
Your assuming Sens will finish in bottom 10 otherwise, next year.

 

[Micklebot]

I think we need to give up this year's pick, the league isn't doing us an favours.

 

[jbeck5]

There is a similarity between NJ and Ottawa situation, the ownership change. At the same time, I do not think it was the most important factor in penalty reduction. It think in NJ case it was the fact that Kovalchuk's contract (bone of contention) was terminated and he went back to Russia, so that I think that would be the argument Lou was making to the NHL.

NJ did the same thing everybody was doing at the time. NHL just decided to make example out of NJ. NJ could point out to a number of teams whose (slightly less) outrageous contracts received zero punishment and ask "why us?". In Ottawa's case, I am not aware of anyone else misrepresenting contract issues of the players they are trading, so it's hard to compare Ottawa's punishment to those for similar misdeeds as a gauge of harshness.

You could argue that like kovalchuks contract being terminated, so was dorion, the culprit here.

So that makes it even more similar.

 

[jbeck5]

The contracts being registered, and what terms info is available to other teams is an interesting topic in itself, but not relevant here. The issue in question is the NTC list. It is submitted to the current team, and is not shared with the league, or other teams for obvious reasons. If I recall correctly, Senators told VGK that the no-trade list wasn't submitted on time, and did not give it to VGK, but Dadonov's agent had receipts when the issue came up later.

I agree the content of the lists shouldn't be made public for the obvious reasons, but whether a player has an active no trade list or not should definitely be part of the database and shouldn't have been an issue where someone could lose a first round pick.

Both whether a player has a list and which teams are on those lists should be private, but still registered with the league and accessible by a league official on a trade call who approves or declines a trade..

 

[NyQuil]

Appreciate the general consensus that the league’s response was too punitive.

It’s easier to just want your competition to be weaker.

 

[KevinRedkey]

No one besides the NHL thinks a 1st was/is a fair punishment. I believe Andlauer will decide to keep it in hopes the NHL lessens it. I'm thinking it turns into a 2nd which is more fair IMO.

 

[jbeck5]

The responsible party just needs to get done. And it makes perfect sense that the team that has the player under contract takes care of these details. Just because there was one management team that failed to take care of this simple job (unless it was purposeful deception?), doesn't mean that the NHL needs to hire a bunch of babysitters to save incompetent front offices from themselves.

I am not surprised there isn't much follow up. This wasn't the NHL problem. This was Dorion/Melnyk problem.

The NHL should be the responsible party here. What's the point of a trade call if the NHL official can't verify anything they say? He should have access to that Information.

 

[theVladiator]

NBA is fine with keeping track of them.
It’s makes the league look Mickey Mouse, not knowing what is in a players contract.

Yes, NBA, with the total of 2 NTCs, with one of them being a headache of its own. They sure must know a lot about how it's done.

Like I said, one party had the responsibility to get this done properly. One party has clearly screwed the pooch in this whole ordeal. It's Dorion front office.

I agree that it reflects poorly on the NHL, but not in the way you think. The choice to delegate this responsibility to the team is perfectly fine. You know, treating them like grown ups. It's when teams like Ottawa under Melnyk, or former Phoenix, act unprofessionally if not crazy, it does embarass the league. Not in the sense that they should change their procedures so that they are fool proof. It's known not to be possible, the nature as they say always comes up with a greater version of fool. In the sense that they should keep a tighter grip on what level of fool is allowed to own an NHL franchise.

 

[jbeck5]

Yes, NBA, with the total of 2 NTCs, with one of them being a headache of its own. They sure must know a lot about how it's done.

Like I said, one party had the responsibility to get this done properly. One party has clearly screwed the pooch in this whole ordeal. It's Dorion front office.

I agree that it reflects poorly on the NHL, but not in the way you think. The choice to delegate this responsibility to the team is perfectly fine. You know, treating them like grown ups. It's when teams like Ottawa under Melnyk, or former Phoenix, act unprofessionally if not crazy, it does embarass the league. Not in the sense that they should change their procedures so that they are fool proof. It's known not to be possible, the nature as they say always comes up with a greater version of fool. In the sense that they should keep a tighter grip on what level of fool is allowed to own an NHL franchise.

Acting like the NHL SHOULDN'T have a database in 2025 is out there to say the least. It could literally take some college drop out 20 hours a week on Excel to have this all officially tracked by the NHL. How many contracts a year get signed? It wouldn't even require a full time job by a regular office clerk.

 

[theVladiator]

Acting like the NHL SHOULDN'T have a database in 2025 is out there to say the least. It could literally take some college drop out 20 hours a week on Excel to have this all officially tracked by the NHL. How many contracts a year get signed? It wouldn't even require a full time job by a regular office clerk.

The question isn't with how easy/hard it is to do a half-ass job of it. It's about maintaining confidentiality, duplication of responsibility, information access, security, etc.

I mean, if it's so easy to do on the NHL level for ALL contracts, what does it say about Ottawa front office not being able to handle 3% of that task? The team already has to keep track of it so that they know who they can talk to about a trade. The only reason to add oversight is if you think the teams front office is staffed with idiots, which is a one-off problem. Or at least should be a one-off problem, lol.

 

[Reality Check]

If they're smart, they will.

The wild card race in the Eastern Conference has been mocked on this website for a reason.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I'd give it up. No guarantees that they improve next season, or that they don't regress.

Two reasons to hold onto it would be the desperation to replenish prospects, drafting a player this year means he is ready sooner . . . and hope that they can bargain with the NHL to reduce the penalty.

Who knows. I suspect they forfeit this years pick tho.