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Do Avs Still Trade Rantanen if They Know He Ends up in Dallas

IsThatSemin said:
Bro I hate to break it to you, but I’m pretty sure that’s already happened. Conn Smythe and a cup would just be the cherry on top
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No, if Rantanen falls off the pace a bit and the Jets beat the Stars in the second round that would be the pretty much the same as we’ve been doing the past few years. he’s gotta keep it going or it doesn’t matter.

If you mean just because he beat us the way he did, also no. Losing to Dallas in the closing minutes of game 7 sucks, but it isn’t embarrassing. As we’ve shown in the past, we can accomplish that with or without Rantanen.

This isn’t about one period, one game, one series, or even one season. This move was made to give management more flexibility to build a roster around Makar and MacKinnon over the next ~5 years. How they manage that and how Rantanen performs in that period will certainly impact those grades. But Rantanen hasn’t even started his new contract yet so we’ve got a ways to go.
 
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tucker3434 said:
No, if Rantanen falls off the pace a bit and the Jets beat the Stars in the second round that would be the pretty much the same as we’ve been doing the past few years. he’s gotta keep it going or it doesn’t matter.

If you mean just because he beat us the way he did, also no. Losing to Dallas in the closing minutes of game 7 sucks, but it isn’t embarrassing. As we’ve shown in the past, we can accomplish that with or without Rantanen.

This isn’t about one period, one game, one series, or even one season. This move was made to give management more flexibility to build a roster around Makar and MacKinnon over the next ~5 years. How they manage that and how Rantanen performs in that period will certainly impact those grades. But Rantanen hasn’t even started his new contract yet so we’ve got a ways to go.
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I think it’s a little bit about the way he beat you, but it’s mostly about not having this guy to try and win another cup this year for the Avalanche. Is Necas and Jack Drury worth going home in round 1? You have a guy like Rantanen, especially when you have makar and mackinnon, you take him to the playoffs for a run at a cup and if you lose him in FA or get knocked out with him, so be it. They don’t give out a Stanley cup for the team with the most cap flexibility or longest “window”.
 
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Chiarelli said:
The team that baffles me with their decisions in all of this is Carolina.
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It was certainly a strange saga for sure but the Canes ended up in a much better place after all was said and done than they were before. Stankoven, Hall and 4 picks, is greater than Necas and Drury.

Playoffs was always Marty's issue
Necas 5 points plus 2
Drury 2 points plus 2

Hall 3 points and even
Stank 4 points plus 1

Canes have played one less game and Stankoven (3 goals) has more goals than the other 2 combined.

Rantanen is playing great the last 3 or 4 games and he is certainly the best player involved but he didn't want to be in Carolina and played like ass his time there.

A motivated Rantanen would have been best but I don't think Dallas trades is what we got for Necas and Drury.
 
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GIN ANTONIC said:
Where is this ‘Mikko never did it for the Avs in the playoffs from 22-25’ narrative coming from?

He literally was the highest scoring forward for the Avs each of the last 3 playoffs including the cup run.
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Yep, they blame Rantanen for not producing when he was the one that was producing

”He never won the big game for us” he has superior stats over Mackinnon for game 7’s for example

Sakic also in his presser talked about the depth and how they had lost post Cup

Well they were missing Nichuskin and Landeskog from their lineup. Is that somehow on Rantanen? and how different would they have again looked this year if they had all 3 for the 1st time since Cup
 
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IsThatSemin said:
I think it’s a little bit about the way he beat you, but it’s mostly about not having this guy to try and win another cup this year for the Avalanche. Is Necas and Jack Drury worth going home in round 1? You have a guy like Rantanen, especially when you have makar and mackinnon, you take him to the playoffs for a run at a cup and if you lose him in FA or get knocked out with him, so be it. They don’t give out a Stanley cup for the team with the most cap flexibility or longest “window”.
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Hindsight is 20/20. It was a coin flip series. We lost two in OT. Game 7 was tied with ~3 min to go. If a puck bounces differently and we win that series, would that have proven that we didn’t need him? Either way, I think it’s too small of a sample to make that call.
 
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tucker3434 said:
Hindsight is 20/20. It was a coin flip series. We lost two in OT. Game 7 was tied with ~3 min to go. If a puck bounces differently and we win that series, would that have proven that we didn’t need him? Either way, I think it’s too small of a sample to make that call.
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In the playoffs it’s all small samples and that’s all you have to go on. You either get it done or you don’t
 
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GIN ANTONIC said:
In the playoffs it’s all small samples and that’s all you have to go on. You either get it done or you don’t
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Yeah… but you can’t overreact to them. At this time last year Zibanejad was nearly 2ppg. We kinda got to wait and see how it all plays out. Small samples work in both directions. You get held off the scoresheet a few days and your season is over.
 
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tucker3434 said:
Yeah… but you can’t overreact to them. At this time last year Zibanejad was nearly 2ppg. We kinda got to wait and see how it all plays out. Small samples work in both directions. You get held off the scoresheet a few days and your season is over.
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But Rantanen paces at 40G and 100+ points in the playoffs over 89 games, including leading Avs forwards in scoring in the playoffs since the cup run. Him going off and leading the league in scoring this playoffs isn't exactly unexpected or a small sample size is it?
 
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GIN ANTONIC said:
But Rantanen paces at 40G and 100+ points in the playoffs over 89 games, including leading Avs forwards in scoring in the playoffs since the cup run. Him going off and leading the league in scoring this playoffs isn't exactly unexpected or a small sample size is it?
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Having this conversation right now, when he’s had 14 points in his last 4 games, is small sample size. In his first 4 games of the playoffs, he had only 1 point. Both games Dallas won were in OT. If Colorado gets a bounce, they’ve got a 3-1 lead in the series and we’re having the opposite conversation. That’s how thin the margins are between hero and goat.

What do the next 4 games look like? Nobody knows. Guys go hot and cold all the time. What matters will be what his stats look like in June.
 
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tucker3434 said:
Having this conversation right now, when he’s had 14 points in his last 4 games, is small sample size. In his first 4 games of the playoffs, he had only 1 point. Both games Dallas won were in OT. If Colorado gets a bounce, they’ve got a 3-1 lead in the series and we’re having the opposite conversation. That’s how thin the margins are between hero and goat.

What do the next 4 games look like? Nobody knows. Guys go hot and cold all the time. What matters will be what his stats look like in June.
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Are you for real?

Rants is one of the best playoff performers in the history of the game, even prior to these games

The last 3 post seasons? He has more points than Mackinnon..

Game 7’s? Rantanen has superior stats vs Mackinnon
 
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tucker3434 said:
Having this conversation right now, when he’s had 14 points in his last 4 games, is small sample size. In his first 4 games of the playoffs, he had only 1 point. Both games Dallas won were in OT. If Colorado gets a bounce, they’ve got a 3-1 lead in the series and we’re having the opposite conversation. That’s how thin the margins are between hero and goat.

What do the next 4 games look like? Nobody knows. Guys go hot and cold all the time. What matters will be what his stats look like in June.
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But that's not what happened. What did happen is Mikko went off and tilted the series when it was on the line... and he's put up historically good playoff numbers throughout his career. So, there's not really an argument for 'the guy doesn't show up'. Like why don't you provide some instances where he didn't perform well in actuality. Not choosing a 2-3 game sample size and ignoring the full series or playoffs... or last 5 seasons. The stats don't lie. Every player, even the best ever, are going to have 2-3 game blips where they don't hit their numbers. You can't hold Rantanen to a higher standard than everyone else who's ever played the game.
 
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Derailed75 said:
It was certainly a strange saga for sure but the Canes ended up in a much better place after all was said and done than they were before. Stankoven, Hall and 4 picks, is greater than Necas and Drury.

Playoffs was always Marty's issue
Necas 5 points plus 2
Drury 2 points plus 2

Hall 3 points and even
Stank 4 points plus 1

Canes have played one less game and Stankoven (3 goals) has more goals than the other 2 combined.

Rantanen is playing great the last 3 or 4 games and he is certainly the best player involved but he didn't want to be in Carolina and played like ass his time there.

A motivated Rantanen would have been best but I don't think Dallas trades is what we got for Necas and Drury.
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RE: trade. Players aside, those two additional firsts in good draft years are important to either extend out their competitive window into the 30's and/or are good trade assets
 
GIN ANTONIC said:
But that's not what happened. What did happen is Mikko went off and tilted the series when it was on the line... and he's put up historically good playoff numbers throughout his career. So, there's not really an argument for 'the guy doesn't show up'. Like why don't you provide some instances where he didn't perform well in actuality. Not choosing a 2-3 game sample size and ignoring the full series or playoffs... or last 5 seasons. The stats don't lie. Every player, even the best ever, are going to have 2-3 game blips where they don't hit their numbers. You can't hold Rantanen to a higher standard than everyone else who's ever played the game.
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The way they cry about Rantanen I’m starting to wonder why they are happy to pay Mackinnon more for worse stats
 
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tucker3434 said:
Having this conversation right now, when he’s had 14 points in his last 4 games, is small sample size. In his first 4 games of the playoffs, he had only 1 point. Both games Dallas won were in OT. If Colorado gets a bounce, they’ve got a 3-1 lead in the series and we’re having the opposite conversation. That’s how thin the margins are between hero and goat.

What do the next 4 games look like? Nobody knows. Guys go hot and cold all the time. What matters will be what his stats look like in June.
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Rantanen's not even that good, if you took away all his hat tricks, points and goals he would literally average 0 goals, 0 assists and 0 points across his career, awful.
 
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GIN ANTONIC said:
But that's not what happened. What did happen is Mikko went off and tilted the series when it was on the line... and he's put up historically good playoff numbers throughout his career. So, there's not really an argument for 'the guy doesn't show up'. Like why don't you provide some instances where he didn't perform well in actuality. Not choosing a 2-3 game sample size and ignoring the full series or playoffs... or last 5 seasons. The stats don't lie. Every player, even the best ever, are going to have 2-3 game blips where they don't hit their numbers. You can't hold Rantanen to a higher standard than everyone else who's ever played the game.
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Last year, AGAINST DALLAS, he had 5 points in 6 games. That was after putting up 9 points in 5 games against Winnipeg. I’m not saying the guy doesn’t show up. I’m saying that everyone has ups and downs. Nobody cares about a first round heater if you ultimately cool off and get eliminated. Playoff fortunes take more than 8 games to write and I want to see how the rest of the playoffs go. It’s only a month, guys. Is it really that big of an ask?
 
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KapG said:
The hot streak the last 3 games doesn’t change the fact that he was already one of the better playoff performers in the history of the nhl lol
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I don't know what to say. Sakic just said they didn't want to build a team around three high end players with no depth. The guy knows a little bit about hockey I imagine.
 
Playoffsareoverrated said:
So you're going to let Necas walk? He won't sign for pennies. This is a stupid excuse for a massive blunder.
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Necas isn't going to make Rantanen or Draisaitl money. He's also younger. At this point, my only expectation is that he plays well enough during the regular season to give MacKinnon some help. But, if you want to talk blunder. That group of 3 guys only won one Cup together. And, to be honest, they needed a deep team to win the SCF.
 
tucker3434 said:
Last year, AGAINST DALLAS, he had 5 points in 6 games. That was after putting up 9 points in 5 games against Winnipeg. I’m not saying the guy doesn’t show up. I’m saying that everyone has ups and downs. Nobody cares about a first round heater if you ultimately cool off and get eliminated. Playoff fortunes take more than 8 games to write and I want to see how the rest of the playoffs go. It’s only a month, guys. Is it really that big of an ask?
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It's a big ask for HF. Don't you know that most of these posters here have their name on the Stanley Cup?
 
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