Do any of the draft dmen have a higher ceiling than Guhle or Reinbacher?

[tinyzombies]

Inquiring minds want to know. If no, select Guhle and/or Reinbacher.

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[overlords]

add a poll

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

How’s Levshunov that high when the main draw back of his game is his defensive IQ. Both Ghule and Reinbacher are solid in the own end.

 

[HuGort]

This draft probably best draft ever for defensemen. In my mock draft I have 5 going in top 10. In my top 20 I have 7 defensemen going. Could go more than that, I have Solberg as best hitter in draft. He could sneak in top 15-20.

Buium getting a lot of attention. Most experts comparing him to Makar. Silayev they compare him to Chara. I have Dickinson a slight notch above Pietrangelo. I'd put my money on who Madden takes. For best D.

On ours, Reinbacher I have him as a Pesce, Matychuk type. Doesn't have hands for top pairing more good #3. Guhle more #2, but multiple concussion scare me. Plus he leaves himself open too much.

I have us drafting Lindstrom or Ignila. Probably Ignila with Lindstrom back injury. Demidov I know less of. Most say he's gone by 5. Catton probably most skilled at 5 but size Habs pass.

 

[Zilo44]

This draft probably best draft ever for defensemen. In my mock draft I have 5 going in top 10. In my top 20 I have 7 defensemen going. Could go more than that, I have Solberg as best hitter in draft. He could sneak in top 15-20.

Buium getting a lot of attention. Most experts comparing him to Makar. Silayev they compare him to Chara. I have Dickinson a slight notch above Pietrangelo. I'd put my money on who Madden takes. For best D.

On ours, Reinbacher I have him as a Pesce, Matychuk type. Doesn't have hands for top pairing more good #3. Guhle more #2, but multiple concussion scare me. Plus he leaves himself open too much.

I have us drafting Lindstrom or Ignila. Probably Ignila with Lindstrom back injury. Demidov I know less of. Most say he's gone by 5. Catton probably most skilled at 5 but size Habs pass.

You understand that the chances this draft produces a Makar, a Chara and a Pietrangelo are nil ?

 

[sandviper]

You understand that the chances this draft produces a Makar, a Chara and a Pietrangelo are nil ?

You don’t know that any of these D may be better as well. That’s why they play the games.

In any case, these comparisons are typically more playstyle and not that they’ll be the next Makar, Chara, Pietrangelo, etc. Seems obvious to me that was the point.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Of course they do, but the likelihood of reaching that ceiling and the fact that they are all different, means it's pretty difficult to go apples to apples.

Dickinson and Silayev have a higher ceiling than Guhle, but we know Guhle is proving himself in the NHL so there's not such a huge discrepancy that drafting one to trade Guhle makes any sense.

None of the right shot defenseman have the same profile as Reinbacher, so there's no apples to apples comparison there.. Levshunov and Parekh are just different.

 

[tinyzombies]

Such a low opinion of our own Dmen lol.

 

[Intangir]

Such a low opinion of our own Dmen lol.

Guhle and Reinbacher both have top pairing potential, but more important than that is that they are quite "safe" to eventually reach that upside.

All of the defensemen at the top in this year's draft have higher absolute potential than our guys, but aside from Dickinson and Buium to a lesser extent they also all have question marks to their game that might preclude them from reaching their ceilings.

For example, Levshunov's approach to the game will need to be tweaked and he'll need to show a more consistent effort on a nightly basis as well as grow his defensive game a ton if he wants to reach his full potential at the NHL level. Maybe he fails in that adaptation.

Silayev's decision-making offensively and how he handles pressure from forecheckers when he gets control of the puck in the defensive zone are areas he'll need to improve at a lot if he wants to be a star in the NHL.

Yakemchuk's all-around skating mechanics are beyond rough at this point and his defensive game (angles, gap, leverage, identifying/blocking lanes, all of it) isn't mature at all for a top 10 pick in the draft. All of which leads to Yakemchuk routinely getting beat wide and turnstiled while defending speedy forwards off the rush, a weakness that could cost him in the NHL.

Parekh's defensive game is quite lacking, he's soft and not strong physically. Unless he really works on his angling of opposing rushers whilst battling along the boards/near the net, perfects his timing for lifting sticks, and cleans up his turnovers and his reads defensively he could potentially struggle in the NHL.

All of which to say that perhaps a better question instead of upside would be if all of those players today are better pieces and prospects than Guhle and Reinbacher.

To which I would say "yes" in the case of Dickinson, Levshunov despite some of his shortcomings, and Buium. Silayev I would be on the fence about. And I personally think Guhle/Reinbacher would hold more value than guys like Yakemchuk and Parekh.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Such a low opinion of our own Dmen lol.

Not sure I understand, because Guhle/Reinbacher are our dmen, no one this year should be seen has having a higher ceiling ? Homerism ?

 

[ReHabs]

Not sure I understand, because Guhle/Reinbacher are our dmen, no one this year should be seen has having a higher ceiling ? Homerism ?

That’s future Norris winning dmen Guhle/Reinbacher you’re talking about!

 

[Shred]

You understand that the chances this draft produces a Makar, a Chara and a Pietrangelo are nil ?

Mario Lemieux and Patrick Roy were born on the same day so everything is possible

 

[Garbageyuk]

All of Buium, Silayev, Dickinson, Levshunov, Yakemchuk, and Parekh have higher ceilings than both Reinbacher and Guhle, easily.

I’d say Reinbacher and Guhle are in the same category as Adam Jiricek in terms of ceiling. Jiricek is slated to go in the 15-20 range in the upcoming draft.

I honestly would not be able to pick one of these three confidently over the other two, if given the choice, especially if we are only considering Reinbacher and Guhle as they were at the time of their drafts.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Guhle and Reinbacher both have top pairing potential, but more important than that is that they are quite "safe" to eventually reach that upside.

All of the defensemen at the top in this year's draft have higher absolute potential than our guys, but aside from Dickinson and Buium to a lesser extent they also all have question marks to their game that might preclude them from reaching their ceilings.

For example, Levshunov's approach to the game will need to be tweaked and he'll need to show a more consistent effort on a nightly basis as well as grow his defensive game a ton if he wants to reach his full potential at the NHL level. Maybe he fails in that adaptation.

Silayev's decision-making offensively and how he handles pressure from forecheckers when he gets control of the puck in the defensive zone are areas he'll need to improve at a lot if he wants to be a star in the NHL.

Yakemchuk's all-around skating mechanics are beyond rough at this point and his defensive game (angles, gap, leverage, identifying/blocking lanes, all of it) isn't mature at all for a top 10 pick in the draft. All of which leads to Yakemchuk routinely getting beat wide and turnstiled while defending speedy forwards off the rush, a weakness that could cost him in the NHL.

Parekh's defensive game is quite lacking, he's soft and not strong physically. Unless he really works on his angling of opposing rushers whilst battling along the boards/near the net, perfects his timing for lifting sticks, and cleans up his turnovers and his reads defensively he could potentially struggle in the NHL.

All of which to say that perhaps a better question instead of upside would be if all of those players today are better pieces and prospects than Guhle and Reinbacher.

To which I would say "yes" in the case of Dickinson, Levshunov despite some of his shortcomings, and Buium. Silayev I would be on the fence about. And I personally think Guhle/Reinbacher would hold more value than guys like Yakemchuk and Parekh.

I would say that Yakemchuk, Buium and Dickinson have a higher potential ceiling than Reinbacher. Guhle, is another matter, and is the equal of any of the defencemen available in this draft.

 

[tinyzombies]

I would say that Yakemchuk, Buium and Dickinson have a higher potential ceiling than Reinbacher. Guhle, is another matter, and is the equal of any of the defencemen available in this draft.

Yea I think the lack of respect for Guhle by some fans is mindboggling

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Always tough to compare but I really like Reinbacher. He's right up there with the d from this draft. I wouldn't mind the Habs taking another dman though.

Guhle we'll see. He's a good young dman. I see him more as a second pairing guy in the long run. But so hard to tell how any of them will develop.

 

[tinyzombies]

Always tough to compare but I really like Reinbacher. He's right up there with the d from this draft. I wouldn't mind the Habs taking another dman though.

Guhle we'll see. He's a good young dman. I see him more as a second pairing guy in the long run. But so hard to tell how any of them will develop.

He was the best dman in the draft just last year and was hurt last year. I’d like to see an NHLe comparison.

 

[Jabba11]

Guhle:
Sam Dickinson
Zeev Buium

Reinbacher:
Maybe Leshunov but I like Rein a lot more than the rest of the Dmen.

New is not always better. Rein is a stud.

 

[Habssince89]

Reinbacher is a great prospect, as is Guhle, but we know more about the latter. Guhle has to put on some weight or else he won't surpass a second pairing role. His NHL game has been good but very different physically from his Jr days

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Always tough to compare but I really like Reinbacher. He's right up there with the d from this draft. I wouldn't mind the Habs taking another dman though.

Guhle we'll see. He's a good young dman. I see him more as a second pairing guy in the long run. But so hard to tell how any of them will develop.

Guhle is already a legitimate 2nd pair dman and he just turned 22 in mid January......most young dmen who are as good as him at this age end up being top pairing dmen or at least bordering on it.

People forget just how young Guhle is as he is only 11 months older than Konyushkov who some around here believe is one of our top D prospects. I absolutely see Guhle as a great bet to be a true top pairing dman by the time that he is 25-26 which is around the time most top pairing dmen start graduating to that role. He obviously is not a Makar type of player who will ascend immediately due to elite offensive production but he will turn 23 this season and I believe that we will see him take another significant step in his third NHL season as is common with top young defenders.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Guhle:
Sam Dickinson
Zeev Buium

Reinbacher:
Maybe Leshunov but I like Rein a lot more than the rest of the Dmen.

New is not always better. Rein is a stud.

The correct answer is "I don't know"......not as fun but speculating on dmen as young as 18 has always been a very inexact endeavour. Nobody thought that Josi, Fox, Giordano, Burns, Chara, Keith, Subban, Chelios, Lidstrom etc would ever have a chance to win a Norris at the time of the draft, so arbitrarily putting ceilings on these kids is a wasted exercise imo.

Predicting developmental ceilings for dmen is exponentially more difficult than it is for forwards and there is little point in assuming that we have anything even resembling an accurate picture at 18 years of age.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Buium's potential is far beyond Guhle and Reinbacher.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Buium's potential is far beyond Guhle and Reinbacher.

Potential is fine, but Guhle is already playing at a high level in the NHL, something that neither Reinbacher nor Buium have yet to accomplish. Also, Guhle has quickly established himself as a leader of the team both on and off the ice. This rare leadership quality is something that can’t be under-estimated.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Potential is fine, but Guhle is already playing at a high level in the NHL, something that neither Reinbacher nor Buium have yet to accomplish. Also, Guhle has quickly established himself as a leader of the team both on and off the ice. This rare leadership quality is something that can’t be under-estimated.

Having a lot higher ceiling doesn't diminish the achievements of a less potential player. But if Canadiens are looking to become a Stanley Cup winning team in the future, they need to swing when players with Buium's pivotal potential are available. Guhle and Reinbacher, if they reach their peak, will be solid stalwarts for this team and there's nothing wrong about it.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Having a lot higher ceiling doesn't diminish the achievements of a less potential player. But if Canadiens are looking to become a Stanley Cup winning team in the future, they need to swing when players with Buium's pivotal potential are available. Guhle and Reinbacher, if they reach their peak, will be solid stalwarts for this team and there's nothing wrong about it.

We don't know the "ceiling" for any of these players.....it is a nonsensical assertion.

Both of Reinbacher and Guhle are much bigger than Buium and are better skaters than Buium. Reinbacher and Guhle have demonstrated offensive potential which we certainly know can develop later for dmen than it does for forwards. It is very likely that both Reinbacher and Guhle turn in to better defenders due to their physical advantages and strong IQ, so the question is how much better can Buium be offensively and that is a huge unknown after having inflated stats playing for Denver and the slower offensive progression that defenders like Guhle and Reinbacher typically make due to their defensive effectiveness and the resulting usage.

I like Buium a lot and have him in my top three dmen in this draft but claiming to definitively know that Buium has a higher ceiling is just not measurable or projectable especially because the true measure of "ceiling" is overall impact and not point totals.

I think we are far more in agreement than disagreement and there likely are semantics that have come in to play. I prefer Dickinson if we are going to take a LHD but if they decide Buium is their man then I will be comfortable with that as well......I just really don't want Parekh or Yakemchuk even though they are righties and fit our needs a little more from a handedness perspective. I have moved Levshunov to 4th in dman rankings behind Dickinson, Buium and Silayev.