"Distinct kicking motion" in Jets / Stars game

[Goose]

I am still completely baffled as to how anyone thinks he kicked it in the first place. Especially distinctly. Even more especially intentionally. If he was intentionally kicking he'd have actually kicked at it. Because that's how kicking works.

It's distinct enough that he turns his foot when he sees the puck coming, moves his foot to direct the puck back at the net, and it's distinct enough that his skate lifts off the ice as part of the motion.

Hope that helps unbaffle you. You're in the minority arguing that there was zero kicking motion, because there was a kicking motion, and to use your Sorkinesque argument, "the way you know there's a distinct kicking motion is because you can see the distinct kicking motion by the way he makes a distinct kicking motion."

 

[Captain97]

everyone knows hellebuyck can't handle the puck on his stick and the puck wasn't going in without hellebuyck misplaying it

jets don't have a leg to stand on here despite arniel whining in the presser

To me this is why it's a good goal.

If Hellebuyck doesn't touch it I'm fairly certain it doesn't go in. So to me it's not a kicked shot, it's an attempted kicked pass that the goalie puts in his own net when breaking up the pass.

 

[Troy McClure]

My question is whether it can a legitimate goal when the last contact Dallas had with the puck was to kick it towards the net. If the puck hit a skater's stick on its way to the net, fine, but the only stick it appeared to touch was Hellebuyck's. No skater's stick touched the puck. According the quoted rule in the OP, that makes it no-goal.

The puck didn't just randomly happen to hit Hellebuyck's stick. He swung at the puck.

 

[Captain97]

So you can kick the puck from behind the net off the goalie and in? “Passing” the puck in front. Goalie knocks it in

I would say yes actually, i would think that should count.

The main reason you aren't supposed to kicked pucks is it's dangerous net front in scrums/for the goalies.

You can pass with your skate, if that pass is deflected in it should count as long as it's not directed at the mouth of the goal.

 

[Fatass]

It's distinct enough that he turns his foot when he sees the puck coming, moves his foot to direct the puck back at the net, and it's distinct enough that his skate lifts off the ice as part of the motion.

Hope that helps unbaffle you. You're in the minority arguing that there was zero kicking motion, because there was a kicking motion, and to use your Sorkinesque argument, "the way you know there's a distinct kicking motion is because you can see the distinct kicking motion by the way he makes a distinct kicking motion."

I don’t think there’s any question the player kicked the puck to pass it in front of the net. Then Helly tried to clear the puck away (goalies often intentionally whack pucks to clear them) and he shot it into his own net. Very smart play by the Dallas guy. Very poor execution by Helly in his clearing attempt. Result: a good goal.

 

[Lshap]

The puck didn't just randomly happen to hit Hellebuyck's stick. He swung at the puck.

Yes, his stick was moving when it contacted the puck. Does that matter?

 

[57special]

I thought it was directed, not a kick. Also, could not say for sure, even after multiple replays, but it looked like hit both skates, then possibly the defender's stick. Very confusing. hellebuyck definitely hit the puck into his own net, though. He is melting down... i have no clue what he was doing in the goal after that.

 

[57special]

Yes, his stick was moving when it contacted the puck. Does that matter?

Yes, if it was an intentional movement. It was

 

[Fatass]

Yes, his stick was moving when it contacted the puck. Does that matter?

Actually yes that does matter. It was determined a good goal because Helly propelled the puck into his own net while trying to clear it.

 

[DaStinger]

A kick or not it was going wide and the goalie propelled it toward the net. It's an own goal.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Clearly a kicking motion, clearly kicked at the net. Hellebuyck was trying to make a save, it's not like he had two hands on his stick and was trying to shoot the puck. There is no place in the rulebook where propelled into the net by the goalie is mentioned. There is no basis for it being a goal, the refs wanted it to be a goal based on their original call and feelings and backwards logic'd it to be a goal.

Anyway, team completely folded after so may not have mattered.

 

[Troy McClure]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Clearly a kicking motion, clearly kicked at the net. Hellebuyck was trying to make a save, it's not like he had two hands on his stick and was trying to shoot the puck. There is no place in the rulebook where propelled into the net by the goalie is mentioned. There is no basis for it being a goal, the refs wanted it to be a goal based on their original call and feelings and backwards logic'd it to be a goal.

Anyway, team completely folded after so may not have mattered.

He wasn't making a save. The puck wasn't going on net. He was trying to knock a puck heading to the top of the crease out of there.

 

[Nedarb]

I would say yes actually, i would think that should count.

The main reason you aren't supposed to kicked pucks is it's dangerous net front in scrums/for the goalies.

You can pass with your skate, if that pass is deflected in it should count as long as it's not directed at the mouth of the goal.

See post 90 I believe. Video of exactly this and called a no goal.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

He wasn't making a save. The puck wasn't going on net. He was trying to knock a puck heading to the top of the crease out of there.

He was in the crease and the puck was kicked at him. Goalies often save pucks that are not going to hit the net. He was reacting to a puck being kicked at him he wasn't making a decision to 'play the puck'.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Beauty own goal

 

[Troy McClure]

He was in the crease and the puck was kicked at him. Goalies often save pucks that are not going to hit the net. He was reacting to a puck being kicked at him he wasn't making a decision to 'play the puck'.

Go back and watch his reaction. He didn't get up yelling about the puck being kicked. He went prone looking up at the ceiling in dismay because he knew he just played the puck into his own net.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

No way goal should have counted but the Jets choked anyway so it doesn’t matter

 

[Lshap]

Yes, if it was an intentional movement. It was

Actually yes that does matter. It was determined a good goal because Helly propelled the puck into his own net while trying to clear it.

Do either of you guys have the actual rule? I'm basing my opinion on the OP's screenshot of the rules, which doesn't mention what the goalie stick must be doing – or not doing – when the puck hits it.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Go back and watch his reaction. He didn't get up yelling about the puck being kicked. He went prone looking up at the ceiling in dismay because he knew he just played the puck into his own net.

He probably couldn't even tell it was kicked, this is evidence of nothing. Goalie looks to the sky after being scored on, news at 10.

 

[albator71]

There's too much grey area with those rules, why not just say if a player kicks the puck in the net the goal should be disallowed period! But no they had to put all those little caveats it's so confusing.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

You've already turned this into a "refs hate the Leafs" thread, impressive...

"Turned this into?" what do you think the entire purpose of the thread was? lol

 

[King Woodballs]

Was a garbage play leading to a garbage goal and shouldn’t have counted
#sourgrapes

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

He was in the crease and the puck was kicked at him. Goalies often save pucks that are not going to hit the net. He was reacting to a puck being kicked at him he wasn't making a decision to 'play the puck'.

Goalies absolutely NEVER make a save on pucks that are not going to hit the net.....the reason is, those aren't shots, and if they aren't shots, they can't be considered saves.

Was it kicked, absolutely, was it kicked towards he net, no, was it going in the net, no, did Helleybuck propel it into his own net, yes.

Are you still confused?

 

[57special]

He was in the crease and the puck was kicked at him. Goalies often save pucks that are not going to hit the net. He was reacting to a puck being kicked at him he wasn't making a decision to 'play the puck'.

Your opinion as a Jets fan, and not ones that I share, as a neutral observer. I don't think that it was at all clear that it was a kicking motion- directing the puck is allowed, and Hellebuyck actively swung at the puck. It did not deflect off him while he was passively in the net. Then , there was the issue of whether or not it was hit by the Defender before it even got the net - impossible to say clearly, from the replays i saw.

 

[Dr Pepper]

There's too much grey area with those rules, why not just say if a player kicks the puck in the net the goal should be disallowed period! But no they had to put all those little caveats it's so confusing.

That's still the rule.

But that's not what happened last night, as shown by the replay.