Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group? | Page 16 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Discussion: Is there a team culture problem with this group?

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You could spend 20 years and never build an elite team, though. Every team is trying to build an "elite" team. You need a lot of things to go right just to get the right draft picks, have them all work out, want to stay with the team, etc. Just making the playoffs in the NHL is very hard.

It's not really what we did in the previous decade. Plus, we also had a bunch of other stupid things happen on and off the ice, and had a bozo in charge of hockey operations with a lunatic owner meddling in everything.

A hot goalie can carry a team to a conference final or cup final, and who knows that happens in the finals. Lots of elite teams never even make it to the finals, or make it and lose. San Jose in thornton/marleau era, Nashville with Weber and Suter, leafs with matthews/marner, edmonton with mcdavid and drai. Caps only won one cup (with only one finals apperance) despite having an elite team for 10+ years with the greatest goalscorer of all time and lots of other good pieces.

Best strategy is to just try and consistently make the playoffs and keep improving the team slowly. If you are a big market with lots of cash then you have a bit more leeway, but the cap and cap structure means they don't even have a huge advantage anymore.

It's also way easier to attract free agents if you're consistently making the playoffs, owner has more cash to spare, fan base is more engaged, etc. It all fits together.
Completely disagree with that entire premise. I never said if you are an elite team you are guaranteed to win it, but it's your only legitimate chance as winning it. You can't rely on a hot goaltender to carry you through all the way each year. That's once in a hundred chance of happening, and you still need an elite goaltender like Price to do it, and still likely won't succeed either, and never get that same performance again from them. The Caps didn't just magically win out of nowhere, they were not a one and done team, they went deep several times until they finally broke through and won it. What are you arguing exactly? Because that's what contention looks like.

Doesn't matter if other didn't eventually win it, they at least had a legitimate chance to do it, and sometimes you fall short. Obviously it's not a guarantee. That's no argument against not going for it entirely lol. Might as well just give up and never really try because it's just really hard, we might not even win it either!! So let's not even bother. ROFL, what kind of attitude is that? I guess it should just be handed to everyone on rotating basis each year instead? That's the entire point, it's because it's hard it's worth chasing after and why winning it means everything. I didn't realize that needs to be spelled out. It's what makes it such a prize and worth the effort, why else would anyone care if it wasn't? I think we have completely different mindsets, and it seems yours is very different than most fans of any sporting club. WE IN IT TO WIN IT.

And no, making the playoffs is not that hard at all. If Dorion and Melnyk managed to do so repeatedly, so can anyone else. Half the league makes it every year. That's not a valid point. We already have a solid core regardless, we've drafted and developed well prior to 2021, all the main pieces are already here, we are only missing one major one upfront to round it out. It does't need to be based on a couple generational players, it can be a handful of great players with depth instead. We don't need to discuss the hypothetical of spending eternity to assemble the core of an elite team when the pieces are mostly already here and now.

The whole just try to make the playoffs and hope for the best strategy is really tiresome, and the reason why I keep on mentioning last decade is because we have our very own proof of why it's foolhardy to make that as your team's strategy. Sometimes, major additions/changes are really needed to get you to that next step, and small incremental change just doesn't cut it, and that is what a serious club will do for their team if they want to contend.

This entire argument frankly stinks of an owner's ruse using it to excuse away why skimping out on filling out the rest of the roster with the best supporting cast the core needs to perform to their fullest is completely fine. I'm just not buying that argument as being anything but a Melnyk level scam. No body looks at that strategy and says yes, I can get behind this, this our best ticket to contention and best chance at a cup during our window. There is a very good reason why legitimate contenders load up during their cores cup window and not go your rout, because that's what needs to be done if you want to sell the team and the fans that you are serious about competing for a cup in their most opportune time. I just don't see how anyone can genuinely argue otherwise with a straight face, unless actually contending and winning it is not important for you, which I'm starting to assume it isn't. I for one, can't stand that argument in favour of perpetual mediocrity, I would love to see a contender finally after 2 decades of waiting, and thats the point of tolerating a brutal rebuild anyhow, this is why teams and fanbases suffer through it, for the potential payoff. You have to at least make a genuine effort at going for it after all that when you have the opportunity. Telling them well making the playoffs is already hard enough and you should all be satisfied with just that, don't expect much else, and if more happens that's just an unexpected bonus, simply doesn't come close enough to cutting it.
 
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I dont know who is saying that we should be satisfied with making the playoffs. What many wont be satisfied with though is prematurely emaciating the picks and prospect pool in one last desperate Dorion like attempt that all the other GMs will smell a mile away to go for it now . Looks to me like we are still struggling to take that next step of a team that can win a round or two in the playoffs. When we get there perhaps that is the time if the core is getting old to go all in. Our Cup window does not appear to be beckoning yet. The steady build is still called for I think.

I dont believe the easier and surer way to a championship is to go all in then tear down and rebuild if its looking hard. I think the better way is to patiently keep improving until everything comes together with something good we already have. ymmv
 
So you think you should join topics you don't think are serious just to bitch and moan about the topic and be all pissy like this.

What a look.

And I got banned for 3 months for saying I didn’t care that Brady went to the White House and you guys have been going on at each other like this. Sad
 
And I got banned for 3 months for saying I didn’t care that Brady went to the White House and you guys have been going on at each other like this. Sad
lol you're joking, it happened here? That can't be right.
 
And I got banned for 3 months for saying I didn’t care that Brady went to the White House and you guys have been going on at each other like this. Sad

Dude I was wondering what happened to you lmao. I was like this guy posts every day for years and then doesn't post a single time during the playoff run or the playoffs???
 
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And I got banned for 3 months for saying I didn’t care that Brady went to the White House and you guys have been going on at each other like this. Sad
That can't really be all it was. I've said this myself numerous times and have seen many others do the same. Typically, they're quicker to stomp out the other side of that argument imo.
 
Can you imagine if they threw their hands up and headed in to another full on rebuild. As a fan, I'd be so angry.
Cant see it with Stu and Sandy signed long term, and Greig , Pinto, Cozens, Kleven, Chabot all under long term team control.

Need to get answers on Zub, Batherson, Spence , and the missing top 4 RD

Team is set with the left side D and centre. Wingers are the easiest skater piece to acquire
 
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Can you imagine if they threw their hands up and headed in to another full on rebuild. As a fan, I'd be so angry.

The team isn’t doing that and no one wants that other than a couple of self-hating sens fans on here. As I keep saying, this team is way closer to being a “contender” (whatever that means exactly) than they are to being a bottom feeder.
 
Cant see it with Stu and Sandy signed long term, and Greig , Pinto, Cozens, Kleven, Chabot all under long term team control.

Need to get answers on Zub, Batherson, Spence , and the missing top 4 RD

Team is set with the left side D and centre. Wingers are the easiest skater piece to acquire

The team isn’t doing that and no one wants that other than a couple of self-hating sens fans on here. As I keep saying, this team is way closer to being a “contender” (whatever that means exactly) than they are to being a bottom feeder.
Its definitely not on the table at this point, I agree with both of you, was more just throwing that out there given the conversation. Trying to scorched earth rebuild now would lead to Melnyk level revolt from the fan base.
 
Sens finished 6th in the East in 2017 and almost won the cup. One double overtime goal away from killing the Predators and winning the cup.

The Blues finished 2019 as 5th in the west and 11th best in the league (by points) only to go and on win the cup.
The Sens went on a very lucky run that year.
 
Luck has nothing to do with it. They were an amazing team.
Amazing is a stretch. They finished 6th in the east, were the only team in the playoffs who let in more goals than they scored during the season. Lost 10 of their last 15 games, they played a Boston team that was very hurt. The season before they finished 11th and the season after they finished 15th. Boucher's first season using the trap was successful enough to get us deep into the playoffs but it was largely a smoke screen to how good we actually were. It's like the Raptors run in 2019, a lot went right for that to happen but they were at least a solid team top to bottom.

I would take that team over this one in heart beat because they had way more heart though.
 
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Amazing is a stretch. They finished 6th in the east, were the only team in the playoffs who let in more goals than they scored during the season. Lost 10 of their last 15 games, they played a Boston team that was very hurt. The season before they finished 11th and the season after they finished 15th. Boucher's first season using the trap was successful enough to get us deep into the playoffs but it was largely a smoke screen to how good we actually were. It's like the Raptors run in 2019, a lot went right for that to happen but they were at least a solid team top to bottom.

I would take that team over this one in heart beat because they had way more heart though.

I mean, they were second in the division, but yeah, they weren't an elite team. What we had were some elite playoff performers. EK, Stone, Pageau, Bobby Ryan. EK was probably the best player in the NHL during that stretch and was dragging the team through the playoffs on one leg.
 
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