Value of: discuss the following specific scenario: bread to Avs via Hawks

[bernmeister]

bread will not be here the full 3 seasons after this b'c he will not be re-upped at all let alone anything remotely near 11 on his next contract. Howev, he controls full NMC now. He may/may not be willing to get out now and play w/MacKinnon.

Avs need replacement for Gabe L.
Would likely pay if Panarin retained from hair over 11.4 + to 5.7. NYR cannot comfortably retain.

Hawks want to profit on actual + projected cap space.

Rs send bread/+ to CHI who forward him to Colorado.

Who pays what to make this a full deal?

Assume NY does not want/need replacement.
Assume Kakko, Chytil, KAM, Schneider, Othmann, Cuylie are non starters.
Assume bread will be moved cheap from NY for signif cap relief, but if LaF is added, while at a discount, something will go back to Rs.

Til tom peeps.
Have fun, play nice

Click to read more...

 

[Chan790]

bread will not be here the full 3 seasons after this b'c he will not be re-upped at all let alone anything remotely near 11 on his next contract. Howev, he controls full NMC now. He may/may not be willing to get out now and play w/MacKinnon.

Avs need replacement for Gabe L.
Would likely pay if Panarin retained from hair over 11.4 + to 5.7. NYR cannot comfortably retain.

Hawks want to profit on actual + projected cap space.

Rs send bread/+ to CHI who forward him to Colorado.

Who pays what to make this a full deal?

Assume NY does not want/need replacement.
Assume Kakko, Chytil, KAM, Schneider, Othmann, Cuylie are non starters.
Assume bread will be moved cheap from NY for signif cap relief, but if LaF is added, while at a discount, something will go back to Rs.

Til tom peeps.
Have fun, play nice

I don't believe Panarin will agree to any move after forcing his way to NY. I don't know how much that was "I wanna be a Ranger" as opposed to "I wanna live in NYC."

I mean you might get him to waive for the Islanders, Devils or possibly LA. Nothing for certain and I'm uncertain any of them would have him.

I don't think he'll go to Colorado or back to Chicago or any market other than the greater NYC or LA area.

 

[EK392000]

Avs should address the 2C hole before they acquire another winger imo.

 

[Mrfenn92]

I mean both the rangers and Colorado pay to make it happen if your using the hawks to retain

 

[Ceremony]

The Avalanche needed a second line centre last summer. The Avalanche still need a second line centre. Why would the Avalanche pay two teams to acquire a winger who rejected them in free agency, and who seemingly doesn't show up in the playoffs?

 

[bernmeister]

I don't believe Panarin will agree to any move after forcing his way to NY. I don't know how much that was "I wanna be a Ranger" as opposed to "I wanna live in NYC."

I mean you might get him to waive for the Islanders, Devils or possibly LA. Nothing for certain and I'm uncertain any of them would have him.

I don't think he'll go to Colorado or back to Chicago or any market other than the greater NYC or LA area.

entirely possible you're right, but as per my premise imo he WILL NOT wait to the last min to exit
This is an opportunity to go to a quality team w/a shot at the cup
And it gets him a bit out from under the microscope b'c primary focus would be his current production in Colorado, not what he did/didn't do in ny

Avs should address the 2C hole before they acquire another winger imo.

understood.
but what 2Cs are available?
There's like 50 ufa guys and most like 99% are not a fit, w?s if they have enuf in the tank, have injury issues, etc.

 

[Mersss]

CHI isn't giving anything for Panarin.

NYR needs to add assets to him for CHI to take him. 11m$, id say prob worth a couple of 1st rders.

Then CHI trades him to COL at 50% for yet another couple first.

Bottom line Panarin stays in NY, cap crunch hurts the NYR enough that they let go Laf or KAM to OS

 

[bernmeister]

The Avalanche needed a second line centre last summer. The Avalanche still need a second line centre. Why would the Avalanche pay two teams to acquire a winger who rejected them in free agency, and who seemingly doesn't show up in the playoffs?

As to C, pls read my above post.
As to why pay to acquire, answer is reg season production, w/hope pairing w/MacKinnon is instant chemistry.
As to doesn't show up in POs, it is clear he has world class ability. He has been stupid about shot selection, etc, but that can be disciplined/learned.
Being 2nd dog or even 3rd under MacK should help

 

[Ceremony]

As to C, pls read my above post.
As to why pay to acquire, answer is reg season production, w/hope pairing w/MacKinnon is instant chemistry.
As to doesn't show up in POs, it is clear he has world class ability. He has been stupid about shot selection, etc, but that can be disciplined/learned.
Being 2nd dog or even 3rd under MacK should help

The Avalanche have all their 1st round picks, good defensemen signed to reasonable contracts like Girard and Toews, and other prospects that could be used to acquire a centre.

MacKinnon already has extremely good chemistry with Rantanen. Why would they pay two teams to acquire someone who might form chemistry with him, while addressing no other roster issues?

 

[BlackFrancis]

Are you saying Chicago retains half that contract? If so, market prices dictate that's around 3 1st round picks just for the retention based on the cap number. The total cash paid would be close - $15m, so you're definitely talking at least 2 1st rounders and definitely more, but maybe less than that third 1st.

As for who forks that over, good luck.

 

[bernmeister]

Let's tweak this a bit:

NYR eat 2.642,857 from 11+ reduces cap hit to exactly 9 per
Panarin to Chi for middle 2 of their 4 2023 2nds = NYR + OTT
________________
bread flipped half retained from 9 to 4.5 to Avs
Colorado gives like 2 1sts.

I am crushed till w'e but didn't want this thread to drift too far.
Til then.
Discuss

peace out
bern

 

[AslanRH]

Panarin doesn't replace Landeskog outside of maybe point totals.
Style of play and the "Bednar" way seem misfit here

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I mean you might get him to waive for the Islanders, Devils or possibly LA. Nothing for certain and I'm uncertain any of them would have him.

If he's as bad at geography as some on these boards, he might think Buffalo is right next to NYC also

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Let's tweak this a bit:

NYR eat 2.642,857 from 11+ reduces cap hit to exactly 9 per
Panarin to Chi for middle 2 of their 4 2023 2nds = NYR + OTT
________________
bread flipped half retained from 9 to 4.5 to Avs
Colorado gives like 2 1sts.

I am crushed till w'e but didn't want this thread to drift too far.
Til then.
Discuss

peace out
bern

Why are the Hawks giving Rangers a damn thing? The Rangers should be paying Hawks for setting entire deal in motion

And you in OP essentially are making anything of value untouchable yet you expect Hawks to take Panarin and eat half his costs for next 3 years?

 

[dirtydanglez]

i think a center is more important to the avs than a winger. unless the plan is for mikko to play center but i think thats unlikely.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I'll take it if NYR pays all the transaction fees lol. I don't really wanna use our assets for panarin until we get a 2C first.

 

[SRHRangers]

Rangers fans apologize that Bern got off his leash and out of the yard.

Won't happen again.

 

[bernmeister]

Panarin doesn't replace Landeskog outside of maybe point totals.
Style of play and the "Bednar" way seem misfit here

setting price aside, you got better options?

Rangers fans apologize that Bern got off his leash and out of the yard.

Won't happen again.

Lucy, you just so ridiculous.

Silly poster, nobody leashes bern!

 

[bernmeister]

i think a center is more important to the avs than a winger. unless the plan is for mikko to play center but i think thats unlikely.

I'll take it if NYR pays all the transaction fees lol. I don't really wanna use our assets for panarin until we get a 2C first.

Agreed and understood, but I again ask: who is available????
Go to CF and check out the ufa pivots.
Almost every single one has a ? of one sort or another.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Agreed and understood, but I again ask: who is available????
Go to CF and check out the ufa pivots.
Almost every single one has a ? of one sort or another.

You're right. The C UFAs arent that great. It would likely need to be through trade. That's why people are prioritizing assets atm toward C.

 

[bernmeister]

Why are the Hawks giving Rangers a damn thing? The Rangers should be paying Hawks for setting entire deal in motion

And you in OP essentially are making anything of value untouchable yet you expect Hawks to take Panarin and eat half his costs for next 3 years?

I am making available a superior if not elite W, flaws and all, and retaining.
I am enabling you to flip 2 2nds into 2 1sts.
To do that, yes, you eat 4.5 x 3.
feel free to make a counter offer
but
If you don't want to participate by eating half
then let NY deal directly w/Colorado

 

[bernmeister]

You're right. The C UFAs arent that great. It would likely need to be through trade. That's why people are prioritizing assets atm toward C.

I get that
the premise here tho is yeah, a stud pivot is all you need and that is one body, but that is gonna cost thru the roof, b'c again who is available?

Take NYR.
Even if I wanted to ship you out Zib b'c you were gonna overpay to make it worth my while, setting aside Zib has full nmc, what I would have to ask is beyond a wince and cuts to the bone.
And I don't doubt it'll be like that league wide.
What would you ask for a light version of MacKinnon?

It's gonna cost.

Here, the idea is grab your replacement production, and then go for a second level, but not second rate, pivot -- if you can find one at a good price.

 

[Space umpire]

Let's tweak this a bit:

NYR eat 2.642,857 from 11+ reduces cap hit to exactly 9 per
Panarin to Chi for middle 2 of their 4 2023 2nds = NYR + OTT
________________
bread flipped half retained from 9 to 4.5 to Avs
Colorado gives like 2 1sts.

I am crushed till w'e but didn't want this thread to drift too far.
Til then.
Discuss

peace out
bern

Chicago is paying 2 Mid 2nds for 2 very late 1sts for the privilege of eating 13.5 million dollars in cap space? Are you high?
Chicago counters, will send an 6th and a 7th to NYR for a 2nd 3rd and Panarin. Then the Avs half of the trade happens.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I get that
the premise here tho is yeah, a stud pivot is all you need and that is one body, but that is gonna cost thru the roof, b'c again who is available?

Take NYR.
Even if I wanted to ship you out Zib b'c you were gonna overpay to make it worth my while, setting aside Zib has full nmc, what I would have to ask is beyond a wince and cuts to the bone.
And I don't doubt it'll be like that league wide.
What would you ask for a light version of MacKinnon?

It's gonna cost.

Here, the idea is grab your replacement production, and then go for a second level, but not second rate, pivot -- if you can find one at a good price.

Having a W has been discussed. It's been discussed with Kane and Nylander also. But because Compher, who most consider to be more of a 3C, had his level of play taper off/nosedive, there's a desire to get a more proper 2C. PLD. Kuznetzov, Lindolm, Backlund, (though Calgary is less likely now), et al, have been discussed.

 

[Eltuna]

I get that
the premise here tho is yeah, a stud pivot is all you need and that is one body, but that is gonna cost thru the roof, b'c again who is available?

Take NYR.
Even if I wanted to ship you out Zib b'c you were gonna overpay to make it worth my while, setting aside Zib has full nmc, what I would have to ask is beyond a wince and cuts to the bone.
And I don't doubt it'll be like that league wide.
What would you ask for a light version of MacKinnon?

It's gonna cost.

Here, the idea is grab your replacement production, and then go for a second level, but not second rate, pivot -- if you can find one at a good price.

There will always be players that are made available, no doubt a legitimate 2C or 1C will be moved in the next 10 months somewhere. Lindholm, Scheifele, Miller, Dubois, etc. By the time the deadline comes there will most definitely be more names that aren’t even known yet