Did the last 6 years get Corey Perry into the HHOF

[LaPlante94]

Guy has won literally everything you could in hockey except the Calder Cup since he didn't even play much in the AHL. People can say the last few years has hurt his chances because he's lost in the cup finals everytime but what you expect a guy close to 40 to do? He did his job getting bottom 6 minutes in the playoffs the last few years except last year and his teams lost. Almost 1000 points and almost 150 in the playoffs I believe. People got in for much less.

 

[Grifter3511]

Ohhh....The HoG.....gotta boce ring tonight, wahr nicht?

I'm a bit pickier with my idea of what a HHOF should be.

I want to be able to look at a list and know that player was a generational great and not just a very good player but not someone future generations are going to know unless they're strongly interested in hockey history

But why on Earth would anyone go to the HHoF if they aren't a fan and interested in hockey history? It's literally a museum with a different name.

 

[FissionFire]

Because we only look at points? He’s a very unique player. If you look at his complete resume he gets in easily.

What, exactly, about his resume screams Hall of Fame thought? He had one clearly outlier season (2010-11) where he had 50 goals and 98 points and won the Hart. Aside from that he one had 1 other season his entire career where he was a point-per-game producer and coincidentally the most not other season he ever received even a single Hart vote (2013-14, 82 points in 81 games and 13th in Hart voting). He was only named an All-Star 4 times. He finished a season top 10 in goals only 5 times and points just twice. This isn’t exactly screaming all-time great results here.

Ironically aside from the one outlier Hart season he’s basically identical in career accomplishments to Alexander Mogilny (4 All-Stars, 3 top 10 goals, 2 top 10 points) and nobody is calling him a sure fire Hall of Famer.

Perry will get in cronyism and team accomplishments because the old boys club likes him, not because his on-ice results are worthy of being labeled an all-time great. He will be up there with guys like Dick Duff in the argument for weakest HHOF members. He’s basically Patrick Marleau with a better peak.

 

[Sean Garrity]

What, exactly, about his resume screams Hall of Fame thought? He had one clearly outlier season (2010-11) where he had 50 goals and 98 points and won the Hart. Aside from that he one had 1 other season his entire career where he was a point-per-game producer and coincidentally the most not other season he ever received even a single Hart vote (2013-14, 82 points in 81 games and 13th in Hart voting). He was only named an All-Star 4 times. He finished a season top 10 in goals only 5 times and points just twice. This isn’t exactly screaming all-time great results here.

Ironically aside from the one outlier Hart season he’s basically identical in career accomplishments to Alexander Mogilny (4 All-Stars, 3 top 10 goals, 2 top 10 points) and nobody is calling him a sure fire Hall of Famer.

Perry will get in cronyism and team accomplishments because the old boys club likes him, not because his on-ice results are worthy of being labeled an all-time great. He will be up there with guys like Dick Duff in the argument for weakest HHOF members. He’s basically Patrick Marleau with a better peak.

It’s the HOCKEY Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame and he’s won pretty much everything. Not sure what’s so hard to grasp about that concept.

 

[FissionFire]

It’s the HOCKEY Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame and he’s won pretty much everything. Not sure what’s so hard to grasp about that concept.

Because it’s de facto the NHL Hall of Fame when very few players who never played in the NHL are inducted. The IIHF Hall of Fame is a far more fair look than the HHOF. Guys like Tony Hand never played in the NHL but absolutely was the best British player ever and dominated those leagues. Then you have Cold War era Russians, Czechoslovakians, etc who are totally overlooked like they don’t exist because they didn’t play in the NHL.

Here a fun fact for you, if you take away the Hall of Famers who played before the NHL existed and the females, only 3 players in the Hall of Fame never played in the NHL. THREE! Don’t give me some bullshit about the HHOF being about more than the NHL because that’s just willful ignorance if you believe that. See if you can even name them without Googling it lol

EDIT: Maybe 4 forgot about the recent Herb Carnegie induction, but he’s in largely for his social impact and not his playing results.

 

[PistolPete]

But why on Earth would anyone go to the HHoF if they aren't a fan and interested in hockey history? It's literally a museum with a different name.

Do you know everything about a topic;of a given museum before you go in?

It's kinda the purpose to go to the museum, isn't it?

 

[Grifter3511]

Do you know everything about a topic;of a given museum before you go in?

It's kinda the purpose to go to the museum, isn't it?

I don't really know what point you're making anymore. That's exactly like the HHoF (in your opinion). Thanks to the inclusion of players like Perry, generations of fans can go there and see the greatest players they've heard about, and learn about some pretty great players they may not have heard about. Just like at a museum.

 

[PistolPete]

I don't really know what point you're making anymore. That's exactly like the HHoF (in your opinion). Thanks to the inclusion of players like Perry, generations of fans can go there and see the greatest players they've heard about, and learn about some pretty great players they may not have heard about. Just like at a museum.

Then simply have a..."best of the rest" exhibit without making them members

 

[ClydeLee]

What, exactly, about his resume screams Hall of Fame thought? He had one clearly outlier season (2010-11) where he had 50 goals and 98 points and won the Hart. Aside from that he one had 1 other season his entire career where he was a point-per-game producer and coincidentally the most not other season he ever received even a single Hart vote (2013-14, 82 points in 81 games and 13th in Hart voting). He was only named an All-Star 4 times. He finished a season top 10 in goals only 5 times and points just twice. This isn’t exactly screaming all-time great results here.

Ironically aside from the one outlier Hart season he’s basically identical in career accomplishments to Alexander Mogilny (4 All-Stars, 3 top 10 goals, 2 top 10 points) and nobody is calling him a sure fire Hall of Famer.

Perry will get in cronyism and team accomplishments because the old boys club likes him, not because his on-ice results are worthy of being labeled an all-time great. He will be up there with guys like Dick Duff in the argument for weakest HHOF members. He’s basically Patrick Marleau with a better peak.

The questions you ask to start and last paragraph are the point being made to this thread.

His career peak ended with a hall of very good resume, but this past 6 years hes solidified this reputation as a "winner" and used his rat/agitator role in a way to be endearing as a guy doing the little things to win. We know the HHOF doesnt work off of individual stats alone. It works off of narratives about players and implications.

Sometimes guys with off putting personalities waited longer than it seems their resume should of. And guys with winning status added to them go in earlier. Without these past 5 years, yeah I wouldn't of been sure Perry would of got in. Now it's certainly a lock based on knowing how the HHOF voters decide.

 

[PistolPete]

The questions you ask to start and last paragraph are the point being made to this thread.

His career peak ended with a hall of very good resume, but this past 6 years hes solidified this reputation as a "winner"

He wasn't the winner; his teams were.

A team's success SHOULD NEVER be attributed to a player.

and used his rat/agitator role in a way to be endearing as a guy doing the little things to win. We know the HHOF doesnt work off of individual stats alone. It works off of narratives about players and implications.

Narratives that are sometimes merely myths.

Sometimes guys with off putting personalities waited longer than it seems their resume should of. And guys with winning status added to them go in earlier. Without these past 5 years, yeah I wouldn't of been sure Perry would of got in. Now it's certainly a lock based on knowing how the HHOF voters decide.

These past 5 years are a mere instance of shit luck.

He happened to play for teams that made the finals. And he wasn't a catalyst himself on any of those teams.

 

[Team_Spirit]

The last 6 years simply added to the lore.

 

[PistolPete]

The last 6 years simply added to the lore.

View attachment 1049930

Nah.

Richard is impressive. Hart and All Star are voted on and you can't be sure they're accurate.

All Star Game? Just a gimmick.
SC Champion? No. The Anaheim Duxks were SC Champions, he just happened to be a member of said team.

 

[ClydeLee]

He wasn't the winner; his teams were.

A team's success SHOULD NEVER be attributed to a player.

Narratives that are sometimes merely myths.


These past 5 years are a mere instance of shit luck.

He happened to play for teams that made the finals. And he wasn't a catalyst himself on any of those teams.

Classic hockey minded folks and those who run the HOF do not think as you do. Not as I do, nor most fans would.

I'm not saying I think Corey Perry deserves a HOF induction. I'm not saying team success matters. To the HHOF voters it matters.

 

[PistolPete]

Classic hockey minded folks and those who run the HOF do not think as you do. Not as I do, nor most fans would.

I'm not saying I think Corey Perry deserves a HOF induction. I'm not saying team success matters. To the HHOF voters it matters.

I rhink even they will not be wooed by the recent past, even if the Oilers win this year because he was a spare part on every team- and a 1-4 record of the teams doesn't create much of a halo effect

 

[OG Eberle]

Nah.

Richard is impressive. Hart and All Star are voted on and you can't be sure they're accurate.

All Star Game? Just a gimmick.
SC Champion? No. The Anaheim Duxks were SC Champions, he just happened to be a member of said team.

Why do you even watch hockey if everyone except McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin just "suck" due to all their alcolades being team based, voting, or not based on points?

Do you even enjoy hockey or watch it? Or just live and die by the spreadsheets and box scores on your phone?

The whole "anti-team award" narrative in a completely team sport makes my head spin.

 

[PistolPete]

Why do you even watch hockey if everyone except McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin just "suck" due to all their alcolades being team based, voting, or not based on points?

Do you even enjoy hockey or watch it? Or just live and die by the spreadsheets and box scores on your phone?

The whole "anti-team award" narrative in a completely team sport makes my head spin.

A little melodramatic, eh?

How do the dots even get connected between team success not being used for player assessment to hating hockey and using spreadsheets and box scores only?

Indulge me if you will and explain why the former leads to the latter? I can't even begin to make a guess as to how that comes about.

 

[JianYang]

Guy has won literally everything you could in hockey except the Calder Cup since he didn't even play much in the AHL. People can say the last few years has hurt his chances because he's lost in the cup finals everytime but what you expect a guy close to 40 to do? He did his job getting bottom 6 minutes in the playoffs the last few years except last year and his teams lost. Almost 1000 points and almost 150 in the playoffs I believe. People got in for much less.

All those finals also need to be put in context.

I would argue that perry was on the team that happened to be a definitive underdog in most of those finals, and he was never a clear favourite in any of them either.

This series is probably the closest one out of the bunch to consider perry as being on the favourite.

 

[ClydeLee]

I rhink even they will not be wooed by the recent past, even if the Oilers win this year because he was a spare part on every team- and a 1-4 record of the teams doesn't create much of a halo effect

Well I think if you follow the trends of what old hockey minds and HHOF voters care about, you would see Perry fills exactly that point.

They frequently show love of longevity, cup/beyond winning pedigree, individual awards, and reputation. All things Perry has. If you really dont think he is getting in, I think you just aren't putting aside your value of what it should be vs what the old hockey members typically value. Its not a halo effect... because you think it's objectively true Perry was only a spare part, does not mean the old hockey media view is seeing it that way. They think he was a significant factor from intangible qualities. You have to acknowledge that is the mindset of the voting body.

You need to accept the individual achievement is all that matters in individual player recognition, is never the mentality the HHOF voting body has ever maintained.

 

[PistolPete]

Well I think if you follow the trends of what old hockey minds and HHOF voters care about, you would see Perry fills exactly that point.

They frequently show love of longevity, cup/beyond winning pedigree, individual awards, and reputation. All things Perry has. If you really dont think he is getting in, I think you just aren't putting aside your value of what it should be vs what the old hockey members typically value. Its not a halo effect... because you think it's objectively true Perry was only a spare part, does not mean the old hockey media view is seeing it that way. They think he was a significant factor from intangible qualities. You have to acknowledge that is the mindset of the voting body.

You need to accept the individual achievement is all that matters in individual player recognition, is never the mentality the HHOF voting body has ever maintained.

I am aware of the history of the HHOF's voting pattern so I'm not arguing Perry will definitely not get in (but I still wouldn't bet on him). The conversation veered a bit with another poster from "Will he?" to "Should he?"

The aforementioned history is a reason I have never held the HHOF in any kind of regard at all much less a high one.

 

[justus the great]

Sure, he has a cup, but he was not a core player of that winning Anaheim team. After that he's lost in the finals 5 times. If we're going to give him high praise for a cup he won while being a very young player on a very stacked Anaheim team, then he needs to get criticized for losing also.

Anyway, he's a lock for the HoF. The bar is not that high and has not been for a very long time.

 

[SirKillalot]

After that he's lost in the finals 5 times.

Looks like he will be losing a 6th one.

 

[bleedgreen]

Looks like he will be losing a 6th one.

Why?

 

[chethejet]

He is a complimentary player that had a role as a get in the tough areas kind of player. Nothing wrong with that but still just a one trick pony.

 

[Spektre]

Perry should not be close to getting into the hall of fame.

Roenick has a career .89 points per game with 513g & 703a in 1363 games.

Perry has a career .67 points per game with 448g & 487a in 1392 games.

It took forever for Roenick to get in. He has almost 300 more points than Perry (281). Perry has already played more games. Perry played most of his career with hall of fame line mates.

Perry has a good career. He should never be in the hall of fame.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Sure, he has a cup, but he was not a core player of that winning Anaheim team. After that he's lost in the finals 5 times. If we're going to give him high praise for a cup he won while being a very young player on a very stacked Anaheim team, then he needs to get criticized for losing also.

Anyway, he's a lock for the HoF. The bar is not that high and has not been for a very long time.

Depends on how you look at it. Getting the cup finals is no easy task. He's got stats that put him up there and he's been on really good teams that go far. You could look at it from both sides and I dont think he should hang his head too low even though it definitely looks like he's going to lose another one.