Did the 1998 1st overall Vincent Lecavalier live up to his hype?

[SeanMoneyHands]

Not sure if he did. He was a slow performer out of the gate and wasn't Tampa rumoured to be willing to trade him within his first 5 years playing there? He also butted heads with Torts, didn't Torts hate Vinny? Look at his career and he's well under a PPG player (949pts in 1212 GP). He was very good at his peak and a pretty decent performer in the playoffs but I personally don't think he lived up to his hype or expectations when he was drafted. What do you think?

In any other year I don't think he goes 1st overall, 1998 was a pretty weak draft with David Legwand going #2 and Bryan Allen #5.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I think he played well and often exceeded them, IIRC he had a 100+ point season!

I feel like Vinny had a same feat early on like Paul Kariya. Both players were quintessential faces of the franchise whether they liked it to be or not. I remember reading THN articles on how Lecavlier was supposed to be THE guy for years. Both players, stylistically different, were surrounded by ‘scrubs’ and then played better with a better support staff.

Glancing over his stats, I would say the after the 2013 lockout that is where his age crept up to him. This stat is hilarious to me.. 30 games played with AK Kazan during the 05 lockout, nearly 80 PIMs

Don’t know much about the behind the scenes garbage, but he was essential in their SCF run

 

[Hockeyholic]

I would say...no.

But it is tough to live up to how hyped he was

 

[GoBoltz56]

I was never really a huge fan and don't think he played to his full potential. He could be lazy and inconsistent. He had a couple big years sprinkled in there and wasn't a bad player overall, but just never consistently produced or battled IMO. I remember being at a game and there was a 2 on 1 the other way. He lazily skated back to the bench without any urgency or backchecking and the entire bench erupted yelling at him to hurry up and change so someone else could get on. The other team scored on the resulting 2 on 1. It wasn't something you would have seen on a TV broadcast because he was behind the play and the bench wouldn't have been in view. It was just eye opening that almost the entire team erupted at their captain while he was doing something lazy, so made me think maybe his teammates shared my opinion. Though I'm probably in the minority with that thought, especially with the local tampa fanboys/girls.

 

[MadLuke]

It depends, he certainly was not the Micheal Jordan of hockey, when a draft year is that weak (he is still easily the best first rounder, even if Gagne peaker quite high).

The Q was superbe around that time (Tanguay-Ribeiro-Chouinard-Brad Richards) which created a lot of excitement, 7 first rounder coming from it, Oceanic was incredibly popular, I think there was talk to make the day they won the memorial cup with Richards an holiday at the municipal level and the picture was on the phone book for all the east of the province.

It got significantly overboard at time (not just the Jordan of hockey that was an obvious hyperbole to sales, but best quebec prospect since Lemieux was common, was he really that more special than Pierre Turgeon-Daigle but just bigger and in the really weak late 90s draft eras ?)

Or maybe they were right all along, considering he was close to an HOF career and still felt like a bit of a disappointment, they were seeing how much potential there was and he did not lived it up to it.

Without injury and a longer prime the slow start would have not been an issue I think, he started so young in a time that was often an issue and when they have tall body they need to growth into (even more than Joe Thornton was) it feel natural to take a bit longer and was quite common for big player to peak later on.

 

[Hobnobs]

Draft pick rarely live up to the actual hype. Especially in those years when every prospect were hyped to ludicrous proportions. He was a solid first line center for his career with a great year here and there and usually money in the playoffs.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He had two years ('07 and '08) where he exceeded point-per-game.

Those were also the only two seasons that he finished top-10 in a major statistical category, or won postseason recognition of any kind.

For any 1st overall pick, let alone a highly touted one, that's a letdown. He was as good in those 2 years as he was supposed to be all throughout his prime.

 

[The Macho Man]

He was a great player that - but for injury - may have ended up with a borderline HHOF resume. He wasn't touted as a generational talent (but see Michael Jordan comment), so I wouldn't say he was a disappointment, but he probably didn't top out as high as he could have based on talent alone.

 

[Video Nasty]

No, but should he really have been expected to? What is one player supposed to be do for a team that was historically bad enough in all areas to draft him and then continue to be putrid during his first four formative seasons?

For a guy who played his first 6 seasons during the DPE on an awful team for the first four, had his 7th season wiped out by the lockout, and retired after his age 35 season with 400+ goals, 949 points, a Rocket, 2nd to Crosby in Hart voting among forwards in 2006-2007, and a Cup, he had one of the more successful #1 pick careers of the 90s.

 

[tarheelhockey]

No, but should he really have been expected to? What is one player supposed to be do for a team that was historically bad enough in all areas to draft him and then continue to be putrid during his first four formative seasons?

For a guy who played his first 6 seasons during the DPE on an awful team for the first four, had his 7th season wiped out by the lockout, and retired after his age 35 season with 400+ goals, 949 points, a Rocket, 2nd to Crosby in Hart voting among forwards in 2006-2007, and a Cup, he had one of the more successful #1 pick careers of the 90s.

I mean, he played on a Stanley Cup winning team at the exact age (23) when you would expect him to be shooting the lights out in that environment. 4th in scoring during the regular season (66p in 81g) and also 4th in scoring during the playoffs (16p in 23g) on that team. In the playoffs he barely outscored Ruslan Fedotenko and an ancient Dave Andreychuk.

That's not "bad player" territory by any means, but it is downright mediocre for a #1 draft pick and presumptive franchise player. That season is a fair representation of his caliber of play, regardless of team quality, prior to those two peak years in '07 and '08.

 

[BraveCanadian]

He would never live up to the hype of the Michael Jordan of hockey thing but I do think its a shame that shortly after Lecavalier finally put things together he got hurt and could never get back there. He may have gotten closer than it looks like now.

The Michael Jordan thing was from someone who had no idea what hockey was anyways so it was overblown.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Is there an element to "Michael Jordan of hockey" besides "best player and is a superstar"...? Or is there a piece of the analogy that makes it...uhh...necessary...?

 

[The Pale King]

I really liked him during his brief stop in Los Angeles. Would havd liked to see more of him during his prime but that was hard to do playing in Tampa during the pre-streaming era.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Is there an element to "Michael Jordan of hockey" besides "best player and is a superstar"...? Or is there a piece of the analogy that makes it...uhh...necessary...?

beyond best player, i always took that analogy to mean transcendently exciting to the point where he could be a crossover star and grow the sport beyond your wildest dreams

obviously that was a bit of a reach

 

[MS]

I mean, there's two barometers you could use for 'the hype' on Lecavalier :

1) The insane quote from the new Lightning owner who knew nothing about hockey that he'd be 'The Michael Jordan of hockey'.

2) The normal expectations of literally everyone else that this would be a franchise #1C, probably at the Sundin/Modano sort of level.

He was never going live up to (1) unless he turned into McDavid which was never going to happen.

He did live up to (2), briefly, for 1.5 seasons in 06-07 and the first half of 07-08. Won a Richard, finished 3rd and 6th in points. Then reverted back to the disappointing figure he'd been for the first several seasons of his career.

 

[jimmysheva]

Pierre Lacroix collected 4 first round picks for that year's draft and wanted to trade them all for him

 

[MadLuke]

Pierre Lacroix collected 4 first round picks for that year's draft and wanted to trade them all for him

If Tampa pick Tanguay-Skoula-Regehr-Parker (big if but to play the game), would have been interesting.

Tanguay was a significant piece during the 2001 cup but one Blake is there Skoula did not play much, what the flames pick instead in the Fleury trade is quite mysterious.

Maybe with Sakic-Forsberg, pressure and development get to be a little bit different.

 

[McGarnagle]

Good career, good #1 center at his peak, won a cup as his team's #1 center. Led the league in goals in 2007.

But at any point would anyone have considered him among the 5 best players in the sport? Maybe in that 06-07 to 07-08 window he'd have cracked the lower end of that list. And he hung around but kind of tailed off after that. I don't think he lived up to the hype Tampa tried to build around him, but that doesn't mean he had a bad career or was a bad pick. He had the most points out of anyone in that draft anyway, though I'd go Datsyuk #1 in a 1998 redraft.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

honestly, i think he exceeded my expectations a little.

my memory of that time was nobody expected a number one pick to have the impact of a matthews or a mackinnon. between daigle/pronger and kovalchuk i don't think anybody was slated as that kind of can't-miss superstar prospect. in this respect, joe thornton massively exceeded expectations.

i think with lecavalier specifically, his high end was obviously a franchise center, a level he hit for about 18 months. but at the time of the draft, his middle felt like a solid olli jokinen career with maybe more staying power as a number one center. and for years after the draft it looked like he wasn't going to be anything close to that.

Pierre Lacroix collected 4 first round picks for that year's draft and wanted to trade them all for him

If Tampa pick Tanguay-Skoula-Regehr-Parker (big if but to play the game), would have been interesting.

Tanguay was a significant piece during the 2001 cup but one Blake is there Skoula did not play much, what the flames pick instead in the Fleury trade is quite mysterious.

Maybe with Sakic-Forsberg, pressure and development get to be a little bit different.

to me, the interesting question isn't how colorado would have done with lecavalier. it's what would tampa have looked like with those four picks.

best case scenario, they get tanguay, regehr, gagne, and gomez.

so let's rebuild that pre-lockout team:

gagne richards st louis
tanguay gomez fedotenko
stillman/prospal andreychuk modin
dingman taylor roy/afansenkov

regehr boyle
sydor/cullimotre kubina
lukowich/pratt sarich

khabibulin

that's a much better team than the one that won the cup, right? hell, young as they were i'd be scared of them in '03 as well.

Good career, good #1 center at his peak, won a cup as his team's #1 center. Led the league in goals in 2007.

lecavalier was absolutely not his team's number one center when they won the cup.

in addition to leading the playoffs in scoring and winning the conn smythe, brad richards played almost two more minutes/game at ES, thirty more seconds/game on the PP, and even got 1:41/game on the PK, while lecavalier killed almost no penalties at all.

 

[ForsbergForever]

But at any point would anyone have considered him among the 5 best players in the sport? Maybe in that 06-07 to 07-08 window he'd have cracked the lower end of that list.

He was named MVP of the 2004 World Cup. If that had been his coming out party as a true superstar it would have been the expected outcome of his career. Being a mid-teir player foe all but those two seasons was the bigger surprise. Already in 2002 there were the trade rumors and whispers that he might be a bust when he has 37 points in 76 games.

 

[MadLuke]

best case scenario, they get tanguay, regehr, gagne, and gomez.

Well best case scenario of multiple draft pick will rarely look good, the upside must almost always be on the draft side.

Take the Stevens for 5 first round pick trade, I am sure best case scenario for the Blues would make it look like a terrible trade, in reality Stevens was a way better side of the deals by a long shot (or Shanahan they got from Stevens, was better than the 5 first round).

Gagne would have been probable too, so not a stretch, but maybe they go

Henrich, Parker, Kraft, Fischer and Lecavalier develop better with low pressure/responsibility with captain Joe Sakic in Colorodo, do not get injured and has a HOF career.

 

[LightningStorm]

I mean, there's two barometers you could use for 'the hype' on Lecavalier :

1) The insane quote from the new Lightning owner who knew nothing about hockey that he'd be 'The Michael Jordan of hockey'.

2) The normal expectations of literally everyone else that this would be a franchise #1C, probably at the Sundin/Modano sort of level.

He was never going live up to (1) unless he turned into McDavid which was never going to happen.

He did live up to (2), briefly, for 1.5 seasons in 06-07 and the first half of 07-08. Won a Richard, finished 3rd and 6th in points. Then reverted back to the disappointing figure he'd been for the first several seasons of his career.

This is more or less how I view Vinny. Rough start to his career where there was talk about him being a potential bust, then becoming a star (but still below superstar) for a 3 season span that included a cup win. Then 2 seasons he exploded and had a case for being the best player in the calendar year of 2007. But after that injuries set in and he never really recovered.

Prior to his 17/18 revival, Stamkos looked like he was gonna have a career like Lecavalier's, though he did have a longer peak. Plus Stammer peaked younger than Vinny. But Stammer recovered from his injuries in a way Vinny never did.

lecavalier was absolutely not his team's number one center when they won the cup.

in addition to leading the playoffs in scoring and winning the conn smythe, brad richards played almost two more minutes/game at ES, thirty more seconds/game on the PP, and even got 1:41/game on the PK, while lecavalier killed almost no penalties at all.

100% this. That was MSL and Richards' team. Vinny had nowhere near neither the regular season of the Hart winning MSL nor the postseason of the Smythe winning Richards.

 

[McGarnagle]

Didn't the Habs offer Tampa Price and Subban for him back around 2008 or so? I guess that gives an idea of his value at the time.

 

[Brodeur]

I still have fond memories of being on a 56k modem to download the monthly Red Line Report articles on USA Today about the 1998 Draft.

Very good career, but as others said maybe didn't quite reach the lofty predictions going into the draft.

And on an unrelated note, the closest I ever got to getting in a bar fight was over Lecavalier. This must have been April-ish 2007 (ie Lecavalier's best season), met up with some friends after their beer league game. Friend of a friend had definitely been overserved and/or pounded one too many in the locker room beforehand.

Naturally the playoffs came up in discussion. This guy loudly proclaimed that Tampa Bay was going to win the Cup because of their veteran grit. It took me a moment, but I pointed out that Tampa had already been eliminated. The guy got in my face and yelled "ARE YOU TELLING ME VINNY LECAVALIER ISN'T THE BEST PLAYER IN THE NHL?" I responded that I wasn't 100% sure he was the best player on his own team. The guy turned beet red and looked like he was ready to take a swing, but our mutual friend stepped in.

For the next few years after that, I always named my Yahoo fantasy team "Veteran Grit." [/coolstorybro]

 

[The Panther]

I wonder if Vinnie might have scored more if not for Tortorella. Don't get me wrong, Torts took them to the Cup, so it all worked out. But I notice in only his 2nd season, Lecavalier scored 67 points in 80 games, which, for a 19 year old in the DPE, is really good. Tortorella then took over in mid-season the next year, and for a couple years Vinnie's stats stagnated or dropped.

From the autumn of 2002 to the spring of 2008, Lecavalier was surely one of the best forwards in the world. He was 4th in goals and 5th in scoring points over those six years. He won the Rocket and was 2nd-team All Star in the same season, and was MVP of the World Cup. And won the Stanley Cup.

He was a little slow to get going, and he lost a season in his early prime to Lock Out, but even so if he had maintained that 2007-ish level for just two or three more years, I think we'd all look at his overall career with no sense of disappointment at all. But he just wasn't the same kind of impact player after age 27.