Did Mackinnon win the Hart because of pro Canadian Bias

[Mirka the Turka]

He clearly got outscored by Kucherov and Kucherov plays on the worse team, did pro Canadian bias win Mackinnon the award cause they felt bad for him?

Similar to how Joel Embiid won the award over Jokic, did voters just feel bad that Mackinnon ain’t Kucherov level?

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[Signupnow]

Yes.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

If you want to put emphasis on the most valuable aspect it should have been Kucherov. 52 point gap to Tampa's 2nd leading scorer + Art Ross on a meh team.

 

[5Hollywood5]

EN merchant

 

[CanadienShark]

No. There were 3 legit candidates this year. I'm Canadian, but not an Avs fan or big fan of MacKinnon. I wouldn't have been bothered if any 3 won. If anything, I'd say it was more "he's due" than nationality.

 

[bobholly39]

I don't think it's the "Canadian bias" at play. So voted option 3.

There's an anti-Kucherov bias though - and no, not because he's Russian. He gets overlooked a lot. It's not about Canada. Jack Hughes, Auston Matthews...if they had been in the MacKinnon position, there'd have been a big push for them too. Ovechkin/Kaprizov as Russians...Barkov as a european...any of those could have won a hart in Mack's position. It's specific to Kucherov I feel.

In my opinion - Kucherov should have won the hart in 2018. He also should have won both conn smythes in 2020 and 2021 (I subscribe to the notion of voter fatigue, so I'm fine with the idea of not giving him a 2nd in a row if he had won the first, but I stil think he was objectivelty the best choice both years), and he also should have won the hart this year.

For what it's worth - I think Kucherov/MacKinnon were super close this year - so it's not some sort of highway robbery Kucherov didn't win (see 1989 hart for highway robbery example) - but it's still funny that in all these close races, Kucherov somehow ends up on losing side.

 

[JackSlater]

The best case for Kucherov is his huge scoring gap over the next highest scorer on his team, not that he outscored MacKinnon by a whopping (almost) 3%. I do think that he was more valuable to his team (even though Tampa Bay has other elite players) but this is a trophy voted for by writers and writers like having a narrative to write about. Nicer story for them that MacKinnon hadn't won before. You can bet that if MacKinnon had gotten the Hart in 2018 and Kucherov somehow didn't win his Hart the results would have been reversed. I'd also bet that he lost a few vote placements by writers who were annoyed by him being an ass at the all star game, which absolutely shouldn't matter.

The Canadian bias is one of the laziest but most amusing angles that people come up with when discussing why something they didn't like actually happened. The Hart trophy has been given out 101 times, and a quick count has Canada producing the winners in all but around 14 cases. By far most of the best players in hockey's history are Canadian. I'm pretty confident that Canadians are going to be less fixated on what country a player comes from than people from other countries in hockey since there have already been so many great players. Just look at threads about this last Conn Smythe and see who really wants Barkov to get the trophy or Bobrovsky to get it. Americans don't fixate on nationality when it comes to voting in the NBA (the Embiid example in the OP is hilariously bad) in an even more extreme case of this, sice the default basketball player is an American. Canadians are going to be biased for someone like Steve Nash (who everyone in Canada loves) when they are a rare Canadian star in a sport. Nathan MacKinnon is a great player but he's not remotely significant to ~150 years of Canadian hockey.

 

[Video Nasty]

He won through a combination of a worthy season that wouldn’t raise too many eyebrows being nominated for and the perception that he was robbed in years past and needed to “get his.”

Both statements can be true and they are. It’s the simple truth and we all knew it throughout the season.

 

[Lampedampe]

The best case for Kucherov is his huge scoring gap over the next highest scorer on his team, not that he outscored MacKinnon by a whopping (almost) 3%. I do think that he was more valuable to his team (even though Tampa Bay has other elite players) but this is a trophy voted for by writers and writers like having a narrative to write about. Nicer story for them that MacKinnon hadn't won before. You can bet that if MacKinnon had gotten the Hart in 2018 and Kucherov somehow didn't win his Hart the results would have been reversed. I'd also bet that he lost a few vote placements by writers who were annoyed by him being an ass at the all star game, which absolutely shouldn't matter.

The Canadian bias is one of the laziest but most amusing angles that people come up with when discussing why something they didn't like actually happened. The Hart trophy has been given out 101 times, and a quick count has Canada producing the winners in all but around 14 cases. By far most of the best players in hockey's history are Canadian. I'm pretty confident that Canadians are going to be less fixated on what country a player comes from than people from other countries in hockey since there have already been so many great players. Just look at threads about this last Conn Smythe and see who really wants Barkov to get the trophy or Bobrovsky to get it. Americans don't fixate on nationality when it comes to voting in the NBA (the Embiid example in the OP is hilariously bad) in an even more extreme case of this, sice the default basketball player is an American. Canadians are going to be biased for someone like Steve Nash (who everyone in Canada loves) when they are a rare Canadian star in a sport. Nathan MacKinnon is a great player but he's not remotely significant to ~150 years of Canadian hockey.

There are plenty of studies made on cultural bias, even in sports awards voting. To find it amusing and lazy to even suggest the idea of bias existing is, in itself, very amusing.

I'm personally quite biased against Russians, so i'm happy Kucherov didn't win, but i find this complete denial funny.

 

[JackSlater]

There are plenty of studies made on cultural bias, even in sports awards voting. To find it amusing and lazy to even suggest the idea of bias existing is, in itself, very amusing.

I'm personally quite biased against Russians, so i'm happy Kucherov didn't win, but i find this complete denial funny.

So you're saying biases exists? Wow, looking forward to seeing what other first year undergraduate topics you have to expound upon. Maybe the intersectionality of biases and the much feared old boys club. Because I'm sure that it really makes a difference to Canadian hockey writers whether or not Nathan MacKinnon gets a Hart trophy and becomes the 73rd (or whatever it is) Canadian to do so.

 

[Midnight Judges]

These poll options are flawed. I didn't pick any of them because none of them are true.

 

[Midnight Judges]

That said, Canada's nativism in its hockey press and fandom is undeniable. Most Canadians have never reconciled with it, instead choosing denialism. We've all heard the phrase "good Canadian boy" - widely used by Canadians themselves when referring to certain hockey players - the inextricable implication being that furriners don't play hockey the right way. As if the place of birth somehow imbues hockey characteristics.

The world told Canada that Don Cherry was a nativist for decades. It didn't bother Canadians much at all until the millionth straw.

Otherwise you can scroll over to the history forum where "highly respected" Canadian posters maintain that Ryan Getzlaf is better than Alex Ovechkin and numerous regulars claim Ovie - who is top 10 in assists and top 3 in hits during his generation - is a "shoot-only" player. Not one forum regular challenged these nonsensical assertions during pages and pages of discussion during the top 100 players project.

Or check the Canadian-dominated lists where Malkin is not a top 100 player of all time, but Toews somehow is. Gee, I wonder what distinction drove that outcome.

Or check the Canadian outlets that claimed Kucherov was not even a top 20 player before this season started. Who do you think they were pandering to? Could it possibly be the Don Cherry crowd?

Or look no further than Sidney Crosby being placed above Kucherov on some Hart ballots this season. Kucherov outscored Crosby by 50 points. Or witness Crosby getting significant Selke votes this season despite his defensive statistics being utterly terrible (never mind that he doesn't play much defense and never has). What mode of irrationality possibly justifies that? It ain't hockey reasons.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Anyway, MacKinnon is a fine choice for the Hart this season. I don't know that being Canadian put him over the top, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

 

[bert]

He must have won the Pearson because of that too eh.

It was a 2 horse race either player was deserving. What screwed kucherov were all those idiots that gave Panarin 1st place votes.

 

[Voight]

I think it had more to do with MackInnon being a finalist 4 times before more than anything. Not to say he wasn't deserving this year, but I'm sure the voters wanted to make sure he got his after missing out so many times.

 

[The Nuge]

It has more to do with voter fatigue. Just look at the year Matthews won. He had a tremendous season, but there’s clearly no reason for him to have won over McDavid aside from the fact voters go “well does McDavid really need another?”. It’s the same thing that happened to Bergeron with the Selke when the league cycled through the guys who were almost as good as Bergeron for a while.

He’s clearly one of the big 4 forwards right now (McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, and MacKinnon), but he’s the only one who was missing major individual hardware. Unfortunately for Kucherov, he has one already, so voters have to be looking at it as “MacKinnon will be 29 going into next season and has never lead the league in scoring. McDavid was hurt this year. He probably won’t win one if we don’t get him one now”. It’s ridiculous that more voters and Kucherov 3rd or 4th than 1st, but it was also very predictable

I think it had more to do with MackInnon being a finalist 4 times before more than anything. Not to say he wasn't deserving this year, but I'm sure the voters wanted to make sure he got his after missing out so many times.

The thing is though, he didn’t even remotely deserve to win any of those years, so it’s hardly “missing out”

17/18 - Given to Hall for carrying the Devils. MacKinnon barely outscored Hall, but that doesn’t matter because McDavid was ahead of both by double digits.

19/20 - Loses to Draisaitl who was 17 points ahead.

20/21 - Loses to McDavid who was 40 points ahead.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I don't think Kucherov has a lot of fans outside Tampa, he isn't the most likable person. So it's not pro Canadian bias but anti-Kuch one. If it was Kaprizov or Panarin instead of him (if they had similar stats to Kucherov's of course), the result could have been different.

 

[wetcoast]

There are plenty of studies made on cultural bias, even in sports awards voting. To find it amusing and lazy to even suggest the idea of bias existing is, in itself, very amusing.

I'm personally quite biased against Russians, so i'm happy Kucherov didn't win, but i find this complete denial funny.

Sure but that's not what the OP is aksing, he is aksing is that bias the sole or major reason and everyone knows that it's not.

It's funny and ironic and that most of the Canadian bais crap has sprung out from the fringe element supporters of a russian player who often got treated very well by the voters.

The argument is just so flimsy and weak, like Kuch lost the Smythe because of canadian bias sure because a Swede and another russian won both years.

This thread was to be expected though as there is a fringe Kuch element as well.

 

[wetcoast]

It has more to do with voter fatigue. Just look at the year Matthews won. He had a tremendous season, but there’s clearly no reason for him to have won over McDavid aside from the fact voters go “well does McDavid really need another?”. It’s the same thing that happened to Bergeron with the Selke when the league cycled through the guys who were almost as good as Bergeron for a while.

He’s clearly one of the big 4 forwards right now (McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, and MacKinnon), but he’s the only one who was missing major individual hardware. Unfortunately for Kucherov, he has one already, so voters have to be looking at it as “MacKinnon will be 29 going into next season and has never lead the league in scoring. McDavid was hurt this year. He probably won’t win one if we don’t get him one now”. It’s ridiculous that more voters and Kucherov 3rd or 4th than 1st, but it was also very predictable



The thing is though, he didn’t even remotely deserve to win any of those years, so it’s hardly “missing out”

17/18 - Given to Hall for carrying the Devils. MacKinnon barely outscored Hall, but that doesn’t matter because McDavid was ahead of both by double digits.

19/20 - Loses to Draisaitl who was 17 points ahead.

20/21 - Loses to McDavid who was 40 points ahead.

I think that you are missing the point as no one is making the argument that he deserved to win but rather he had timely injuries and was arguably the best non Oiler over the that time period of 4 years.

It's kind of like the due doughty Norris narrative and there is always a narrative for the Hart, this is not a big deal here.

 

[Voight]

It has more to do with voter fatigue. Just look at the year Matthews won. He had a tremendous season, but there’s clearly no reason for him to have won over McDavid aside from the fact voters go “well does McDavid really need another?”. It’s the same thing that happened to Bergeron with the Selke when the league cycled through the guys who were almost as good as Bergeron for a while.

He’s clearly one of the big 4 forwards right now (McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, and MacKinnon), but he’s the only one who was missing major individual hardware. Unfortunately for Kucherov, he has one already, so voters have to be looking at it as “MacKinnon will be 29 going into next season and has never lead the league in scoring. McDavid was hurt this year. He probably won’t win one if we don’t get him one now”. It’s ridiculous that more voters and Kucherov 3rd or 4th than 1st, but it was also very predictable



The thing is though, he didn’t even remotely deserve to win any of those years, so it’s hardly “missing out”

17/18 - Given to Hall for carrying the Devils. MacKinnon barely outscored Hall, but that doesn’t matter because McDavid was ahead of both by double digits.

19/20 - Loses to Draisaitl who was 17 points ahead.

20/21 - Loses to McDavid who was 40 points ahead.

Sure Draisaitl was ahead in points in 2020 but MackInnon was 43 points ahead of his next closest teammate and had to carry the Avs to an extent seeing as every other core player was injured. It wouldn't have been a shock to see him win the Hart, Pearson or both that year.

Regardless I think the two awards should've been split between him and Kucherov this year, especially because Kucherov hit the historic milestone of 100 assists.

 

[Mighty Makar]

EN merchant

MacKinnon has been in the league longer than McDavid and he has less ENG’s and he’s also a Stanley Cup champion.

 

[dirtydanglez]

no mack was bettet

 

[5Hollywood5]

MacKinnon has been in the league longer than McDavid and he has less ENG’s and he’s also a Stanley Cup champion.

Talking about Kucherov.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Talking about Kucherov.

This thread is about MacKinnon.

 

[5Hollywood5]

This thread is about MacKinnon.

My comment was about Kucherov.