Did Ken Holland Get Lazy After 2009?

[Henkka]

Holland has four cups as a GM, he is responsible as the Director of Amateur scouting for many of the decisions they made as far as that great generation of Wings, obviously Yzerman choice was made by Devellano (really twice). Any attempt to discredit him doesn't scan he just has continued to gain power and praise from all corners. It really says something that this is his first real bumpy period.

Great post. Absolutely great. Our great drafts at 89-93 did happen after Holland had done his groundwork as the director of amateur scouting. He did build the system there with Devellano. Holland has created the system and hired right personnel (like Jim Nill). And his final work will be re-viltalizing our player development system with this 100% control with Griffins. It will create a contender for the future, that some other GM will operate (Nill?). Then people in here are praising Nill, just like people praised Stan Bowman about Chicago's Stanley Cup. It was Dale Tallon that build the contender years before.

Usually the builders are out of the organization, when the team peaks. Just like St. Louis now (Davidson and Kekäläinen). But Wings has kept their management power, because it's the most valuable resource you can have.

These building moves behind the scenes are more important than any trade or signing any UFA-player. Without great drafting, you never win anything. Our drafts were pretty dry ~ten years ago, but after some repairings to our system operated by Holland, it looks like the big red machine is rising again. After five years, when we have young and rising team again.

At 2020, when Holland is the Senior Vice President of this team, I think Holland haters are telling here, how it was Jim Nill who choose those players at draft, and it's Jim Nill who is General Manager now and Wings are rising and winning again because of Jim Nill and Jim Nill only. The credit goes for him, but it was Holland who hired this guy, who educated this guy, who builded the reformed drafting system with this guy and who hired Jeff Blashill, who is the head coach of that team.

 

[ScottyBowman]

Does anyone recall the last player to player trade Holland made in regards to a player in the top 3 lines.

 

[nik jr]

Does anyone recall the last player to player trade Holland made in regards to a player in the top 3 lines.

leino could possibly qualify. jason williams ('07) played on different lines.

slava kozlov in 2001.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Most of Holland's decisions are the kinds of decisions that are actually products of non-decisions. And when he makes a decisions, it's typically the easiest one available to him.

When was the last time Holland made what you would say is a tough decision?

Safe decisions aren't always the best decisions.

Is Drew Miller or Dan Cleary being brought back next year?

IMAGINE the message it would have sent to this team if this team waiver wired Cleary or Miller. Instead, they waiver wired the kid. It's the easy move

People will say "But the easy move is sending Tatar down."

That's still coming. The Wings were going to have to waiver wire someone, one way or the other.

1 Datsyuk
2. Zetterberg
3. Flip
4. Franzen
5. Brunner
6. Bertuzzi
7. Helm
8 Sammy
9. Cleary
10. Abdelkader
11. Tootoo
12. Emmerton
13. Miller
14. Eaves
----------------
Mursak
Tatar
Andersson

Be interesting to see what Holland does when Smith and CC are healthy.

1. Kronwall.
2. Smith
3. White
4. Ericsson
5. Quincey
6. CC
7 Lashoff
--------------
8 Kindl
9. Huskins

Babcock obviously likes the kid -- God only knows why. But will Babcock make the tough choice?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Interesting that he was promoted from Western Canada scout to Director of Scouting after 4 years:
Here's his track record. Not bad obviously: Not great either:
By July 89, Cheveldae had two NHL game under his belt.

WHL Players
85-86 Cheveldae,, Jay Stark
86-87 Kruppke, Wilke, DENNIS HOLLAND?, Reimer, Scott,
87-88 Kory Kocur (one of the worst wings picks ever, Sheldon Kennedy, Glenn Goodall,
88-89 – Sillinger,

College Kids from Western Canada
86 Mayer,
87 Banninster
88 Praznik,
89 Dallas Drake,

 

[Henkka]

Interesting that he was promoted from Western Canada scout to Director of Scouting after 4 years:
Here's his track record. Not bad obviously: Not great either:
By July 89, Cheveldae had two NHL game under his belt.

WHL Players
85-86 Cheveldae,, Jay Stark
86-87 Kruppke, Wilke, DENNIS HOLLAND?, Reimer, Scott,
87-88 Kory Kocur (one of the worst wings picks ever, Sheldon Kennedy, Glenn Goodall,
88-89 – Sillinger,

College Kids from Western Canada
86 Mayer,
87 Banninster
88 Praznik,
89 Dallas Drake,

That's usually how it goes. General manager is not a specialist for one thing. GM understands the big picture and signs those one thing specialists to right positions. Scouts, staff, players, coaches. Listens the right people, people that are wiser than in their area, gets info from those specialists and makes the final decision of what they say and how he will see the situation. HÃ¥kan Andersson could be abysmal GM, but is a superb scout. Ken Holland was mediocre scout, but Devellano saw that GM ability in him, how handle all the things together.

 

[MrTaterSalad]

I don't disagree with this at all, but neither do I understand how this has anything to do with what I said or Damien Brunner.

You said Brunner wasn't Holland's idea, true. I said back that smart people listen to those around them and that Holland listened when it came to Brunner and scored a point with that decision. Holland signed Brunner to a contract, if he didn't want the the guy, he wouldn't be playing here. Holland gets some credit.

 

[Vladdy84]

Most of Holland's decisions are the kinds of decisions that are actually products of non-decisions. And when he makes a decisions, it's typically the easiest one available to him.

When was the last time Holland made what you would say is a tough decision?

Safe decisions aren't always the best decisions.

Is Drew Miller or Dan Cleary being brought back next year?

IMAGINE the message it would have sent to this team if this team waiver wired Cleary or Miller. Instead, they waiver wired the kid. It's the easy move

Why do you hate Drew Miller? He's a 4th liner that works hard and makes nothing.

 

[JackieTreehorn]

So Holland gets credit for the cup when he was the cabin boy for the triumvirate.

My opinion is Holland had little to nothing to do with those teams except approving or ignoring amateur scouting decisions.