Did DeBoer just fire himself with the Oettinger fiasco?

[JKG33]

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

He’s the coach and decisions like this are what coaches have to make. Oettinger was awful in that game right away(and against Edmonton in general) so DeBoer had to make a change

I have no issues with it. I know coaches have to tip toe around nowadays and walk on egg shells not to hurt feelings, so it doesn’t surprise me that this has caused so much chaos

 

[Cloned]

What am I looking at

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

He should be fired for sending Cody Ceci out on the penalty kill as his first option every time.

Ahh, the Roman Polak special.

 

[JKG33]

What am I looking at

Weekes doing his usual shitposting when something is going to happen regarding a specific team/city

In this case he's insinuating we should be keeping an eye on Dallas. The timing with Pagnotta's tweet makes me think its related to Deboer being fired

 

[HTFN]

Weekes doing his usual shitposting when something is going to happen regarding a specific team/city

In this case he's insinuating we should be keeping an eye on Dallas. The timing with Pagnotta's tweet makes me think its related to Deboer being fired

Seem weird because half of his face isn't in it for no reason.

 

[Mr Positive]

For all the negative around how DeBoer handled things, you can't deny that he freaked out because he doesn't accept losing. That's what was unfolding. A coach can have an impact on a game, but it's limited. Pulling the goalie is one of the only strong actions a coach can take. We have all seen it spark a team before.

Some people even said that it was fine, expect he should have put Otter back in. To me that's grasping at straws. DeSmith made some great saves too. I do agree that his comments after were off base, but again I admire that it showed that he wanted to win and was upset at what happened.

He was willing to make himself look like an ass at ever step, rather than politely accept defeat

DeBoer might have been upset over something he couldn't change. Maybe like the Canes and Leafs, the group doesn't have have that extra gear for the playoffs. It's a "DNA" thing.

Maybe DeBoer is fired, but we'll see if it fixes the team. That's a long wait to see, and I doubt it does.

 

[JKG33]

For all the negative around how DeBoer handled things, you can't deny that he freaked out because he doesn't accept losing. That's what was unfolding. A coach can have an impact on a game, but it's limited. Pulling the goalie is one of the only strong actions a coach can take. We have all seen it spark a team before.

Some people even said that it was fine, expect he should have put Otter back in. To me that's grasping at straws. DeSmith made some great saves too. I do agree that his comments after were off base, but again I admire that it showed that he wanted to win and was upset at what happened.

He was willing to make himself look like an ass at ever step, rather than politely accept defeat

DeBoer might have been upset over something he couldn't change. Maybe like the Canes and Leafs, the group doesn't have have that extra gear for the playoffs. It's a "DNA" thing.

Maybe DeBoer is fired, but we'll see if it fixes the team. That's a long wait to see, and I doubt it does.

Not accepting losing is all fine and well. Hell, even pulling Oetter which i dont agree with is still relatively fine and within his right.

Telling him as he's skating back to the net isnt fine. Yelling at him as he's going down the tunnel isnt fine. Throwing him under the bus post game isnt fine.

For someone thats such a "successful" coach, you'd think he'd have better people skills in the year 2025. But theres obviously a reason someone so "successful" gets shitcanned so often

 

[chaser17]

Deboer just doesn't like overrated goalies I guess.

 

[Mr Positive]

Not accepting losing is all fine and well. Hell, even pulling Oetter which i dont agree with is still relatively fine and within his right.

Telling him as he's skating back to the net isnt fine. Yelling at him as he's going down the tunnel isnt fine. Throwing him under the bus post game isnt fine.

For someone thats such a "successful" coach, you'd think he'd have better people skills in the year 2025. But theres obviously a reason someone so "successful" gets shitcanned so often

I'm not even against firing him. Heck, maybe he even wanted to get fired but just did it in a more indirect way than Maurice leaving the Jets because he felt he just couldn't help that team anymore.

I could forgive DeBoer for those actions you say because they were in the moment and show that he wasn't going down without a fight. But, the comments after the game were much worse. Oettinger is signed long term and DeBoer knows that. Unless Oettinger comes out in support of DeBoer I don't see how a team doesn't fire him. Well, I suppose the GM could decide that DeBoer was right and trades Oettinger to keep the coach. I doubt that happens

 

[BullLund]

He’s the coach and decisions like this are what coaches have to make. Oettinger was awful in that game right away(and against Edmonton in general) so DeBoer had to make a change

I have no issues with it. I know coaches have to tip toe around nowadays and walk on egg shells not to hurt feelings, so it doesn’t surprise me that this has caused so much chaos

Dallas's real problem is that they just lack speed and they have too many aging vets who aren't really contributing to anything but penalty minutes.

I don't think a coach change is going to matter until they fix that.

 

[iCanada]

Dallas had the edge in xG at 5v5 (like 13.1 to 10.9 iirc)

The issue was Dallas shot <5% (or Skinner was 95%+) while Edm shot 12.5% at 5v5 (or Otter was 87.5%)

I mean, there's some pretty major score effects going on in this series.

The Oilers led for all but 28 minutes out of 300 total across 5 games, often with a multi goal lead.

Depending on which model you use, the xGF score adjusted over 5 games at 5v5 is within a goal, with a couple leaning towards Edmonton and a couple leaning towards Dallas.

 

[BigTomBomber]

I mean, there's some pretty major score effects going on in this series.

The Oilers led for all but 28 minutes out of 300 total across 5 games, often with a multi goal lead.

Depending on which model you use, the xGF score adjusted over 5 games at 5v5 is within a goal, with a couple leaning towards Edmonton and a couple leaning towards Dallas.

Oh no dpubt, but I dont think its as bad as you think (or the final score in a couple of those games indicate). Im not saying any team was dominate but was refuting “crushed”. Unless they meant that Skinner crushed them. I think this series was as much a self inflicted wound (poor shooting %) as much it was the Oilers doing something dominate on defense.

The Oilers played great and their offense did a great job capitalizing on their chances and Dallas did not

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Was it dumb sure, but man dallas stars players are so soft man

I don't know if I would call it soft for players getting pissed off their coach basically backup the bus and ran over their goaltender publicly.

Put another way. For all the apparent dislike Pettersson and Miller had towards each other. Neither one of them ever said a word to the media about it nor did Tocchet.

 

[joestevens29]

Seem weird because half of his face isn't in it for no reason.

You check all the windows?

 

[AM]

This. DeBoer has been overplaying Cody CC in the first 3 rounds and it costed them in Game 4 and 5 with back breaking goals against. Letting Perry walk in uncontested both times.

Ceci wasn’t the one who got beat like a mule by drai that set up the play.

 

[bucks_oil]

He’s the coach and decisions like this are what coaches have to make. Oettinger was awful in that game right away(and against Edmonton in general) so DeBoer had to make a change

I have no issues with it. I know coaches have to tip toe around nowadays and walk on egg shells not to hurt feelings, so it doesn’t surprise me that this has caused so much chaos

How was he "awful" in your expert opinion? There were two shots and they were both very high probabilities of a goal. Otter played the Perry goal near perfect and Janmark (who is exceptional on breakaways) came with speed and found the five-hole when it NECESSARILY opened up so Otter could push across (in counter to Janmark's speed).

And don't give me "need to have a save on the first two shots".... you ALWAYS need to have a save, but that's irrelevant, or at least completely disregards the quality of those chances.

Break it down for us... tell us what Otter should (and could) do differently. What errors did he make?

And let's not forget, because it IS relevant, that Otter is not only their goalie... he's the frickin FRANCHISE player.

I will give you a direct analogy that would NEVER happen and NEVER should:

• Connor McDavid put the team on his back all season (every season), but in the finals last year he had the puck on his stick twice in the last two minutes of game 7. The first time he looked off a shot and made a pass to Hyman that did not connect. The second time he took it to the net and ALMOST tucked it around Goalie Bob, but Bob got his right foot on the puck and held firm.
• The next day Knobloch calls out those two plays and signals them as the reason we didn't have a chance to win in OT. (Noting here for the record that McDavid didn't get a point in game 6 either, and had a single lone secondary assist in our other three losses)
• In your book, that's ok, I mean he's technically accurate, if we score there we go to overtime and, as you say, there's no point in tiptoeing on eggshells, might as well call a spade a spade.

That's what is so wrong about this situation.
1) It is entirely commonplace to hear, "we really needed a save there"... and in saying that, the blame is squarely on one player.
2) And almost never "we really needed PLAYER X to score a goal there"... and when we do hear the more generic phrase it is almost never directed to a particular player or even event... just simply "we had our chances in the third and we need to bear down".

As a part of the goalie brotherhood, I absolutely want Otter to blow up PDB's career. That was complete BS. It's a team game.

 

[bucks_oil]

Oh no dpubt, but I dont think its as bad as you think (or the final score in a couple of those games indicate). Im not saying any team was dominate but was refuting “crushed”. Unless they meant that Skinner crushed them. I think this series was as much a self inflicted wound (poor shooting %) as much it was the Oilers doing something dominate on defense.

The Oilers played great and their offense did a great job capitalizing on their chances and Dallas did not

Eye test clearly has the Oilers chances higher quality. Skinner played well, but many/most of his saves were of the routine variety (with a few notable exceptions). He was able to play within his strength, had time to get square and due to the Oilers D, cross seams were not there and most shots were one-and-done even if there was a rebound.

I mean how many breakaways or 2-1's do the stats say Dallas had all series? Can't be many... I certainly don't remember too many obvious butt-clinching moments as a fan (except that feeling that any puck from the point could deflect in at any point).

 

[bucks_oil]

For all the negative around how DeBoer handled things, you can't deny that he freaked out because he doesn't accept losing. That's what was unfolding. A coach can have an impact on a game, but it's limited. Pulling the goalie is one of the only strong actions a coach can take. We have all seen it spark a team before.

Some people even said that it was fine, expect he should have put Otter back in. To me that's grasping at straws. DeSmith made some great saves too. I do agree that his comments after were off base, but again I admire that it showed that he wanted to win and was upset at what happened.

He was willing to make himself look like an ass at ever step, rather than politely accept defeat

DeBoer might have been upset over something he couldn't change. Maybe like the Canes and Leafs, the group doesn't have have that extra gear for the playoffs. It's a "DNA" thing.

Maybe DeBoer is fired, but we'll see if it fixes the team. That's a long wait to see, and I doubt it does.

If he wanted to pull the goalie to "spark" the team, that's one thing... and it sends the message that giving up two grade A+ chances like that so early in the game isn't acceptable....

... but then the correct move is to give the goalie a period to be pissed off and reset, then explain the rationale and offer him a chance to compete again and put him back in (especially after DeSmith let in that horrendous Skinner goal, yikes)

... some lesser variation of the right move would be to own the decision with the media, explain the "spark" rationale and express how unfortunate it was that Otter had to die on the sword due to his team's play. At that point the issue is over, it is questionable coaching that could have worked and didn't.... end of story.

What we have is NOT that.

PS: When you want to attitude-check your goalie after a SERIES of bad games, you just bench him for the other guy (like the Oilers did to Skinner)... goalies are perfectionists... and the message is always received (usually through self-talk and long before the coach has to send it... that self criticism is likely what caused the slump in the first place).

 

[Mr Positive]

If he wanted to pull the goalie to "spark" the team, that's one thing... and it sends the message that giving up two grade A+ chances like that so early in the game isn't acceptable....

... but then the correct move is to give the goalie a period to be pissed off and reset, then explain the rationale and offer him a chance to compete again and put him back in (especially after DeSmith let in that horrendous Skinner goal, yikes)

... some lesser variation of the right move would be to own the decision with the media, explain the "spark" rationale and express how unfortunate it was that Otter had to die on the sword due to his team's play. At that point the issue is over, it is questionable coaching that could have worked and didn't.... end of story.

What we have is NOT that.

PS: When you want to attitude-check your goalie after a SERIES of bad games, you just bench him for the other guy (like the Oilers did to Skinner)... goalies are perfectionists... and the message is always received (usually through self-talk and long before the coach has to send it... that self criticism is likely what caused the slump in the first place).

I don't think I've seen a goalie pulled and then put back in, unless the other guy is shelled. I do agree that would have been better, especially with the context that this is a major elimination game, and Otter got you here. But, that's a nuanced take and imo a hindsight break down.

I often have seen goalies pulled for what skaters have failed to do. Pulling the goalie is meant to embarrass everyone, and maybe to get them to play better defense because the guy coming in is rusty. Benching a bunch of players also works, but it's also going to make players tired. It's more of an in season move to figure out the roster or situational.

I will add that I don't like how DeBoer handled it. He was lashing out and it wasn't pretty, and part of that is that it wasn't fair to Otter. In particular I didn't like the presser after the game where he did double down on blaming the goalie. He hasn't backed off it since either. It does make me wonder if DeBoer wants to be fired

 

[HTFN]

I don't think I've seen a goalie pulled and then put back in, unless the other guy is shelled. I do agree that would have been better, especially with the context that this is a major elimination game, and Otter got you here. But, that's a nuanced take and imo a hindsight break down.

I often have seen goalies pulled for what skaters have failed to do. Pulling the goalie is meant to embarrass everyone, and maybe to get them to play better defense because the guy coming in is rusty. Benching a bunch of players also works, but it's also going to make players tired. It's more of an in season move to figure out the roster or situational.

I will add that I don't like how DeBoer handled it. He was lashing out and it wasn't pretty, and part of that is that it wasn't fair to Otter. In particular I didn't like the presser after the game where he did double down on blaming the goalie. He hasn't backed off it since either. It does make me wonder if DeBoer wants to be fired

I can't remember off the top of my head but I know it's something I've seen, for the starting goalie to get yanked early and then put back in to start the second. Seems like it's to get the impact of waking the team up but also trying to salvage whoever is statistically your best goalie and chance to win.

Regular season it doesn't seem nearly as calculated or important but you'll see it under the right conditions (like... 3 games in 4 nights, have to pull a guy early but it would f*** up your planned rotation, he gets pulled but then comes back so the other goalie isn't basically playing all 3 games)

 

[Fataldogg]

What I dont like, in a post game interview, is he said Oettinger has lost 6 of his last 7 vs the Oilers (in a critique of Oettinger implying he needs to be much better). That is putting too much of the onus on the goaltenders. If he lost 6 of 7, that means the entire team, including the head coach, also lost 6 of 7 to the Oilers. Thats the coach deflecting blame. Maybe he should look in the mirror and see he is part of the issue; you know, the head coach who has lost in the Conference Finals 3 years in a row.

 

[Cloned]

How was he "awful" in your expert opinion? There were two shots and they were both very high probabilities of a goal. Otter played the Perry goal near perfect and Janmark (who is exceptional on breakaways) came with speed and found the five-hole when it NECESSARILY opened up so Otter could push across (in counter to Janmark's speed).

And don't give me "need to have a save on the first two shots".... you ALWAYS need to have a save, but that's irrelevant, or at least completely disregards the quality of those chances.

Break it down for us... tell us what Otter should (and could) do differently. What errors did he make?

And let's not forget, because it IS relevant, that Otter is not only their goalie... he's the frickin FRANCHISE player.

I will give you a direct analogy that would NEVER happen and NEVER should:

• Connor McDavid put the team on his back all season (every season), but in the finals last year he had the puck on his stick twice in the last two minutes of game 7. The first time he looked off a shot and made a pass to Hyman that did not connect. The second time he took it to the net and ALMOST tucked it around Goalie Bob, but Bob got his right foot on the puck and held firm.
• The next day Knobloch calls out those two plays and signals them as the reason we didn't have a chance to win in OT. (Noting here for the record that McDavid didn't get a point in game 6 either, and had a single lone secondary assist in our other three losses)
• In your book, that's ok, I mean he's technically accurate, if we score there we go to overtime and, as you say, there's no point in tiptoeing on eggshells, might as well call a spade a spade.

That's what is so wrong about this situation.
1) It is entirely commonplace to hear, "we really needed a save there"... and in saying that, the blame is squarely on one player.
2) And almost never "we really needed PLAYER X to score a goal there"... and when we do hear the more generic phrase it is almost never directed to a particular player or even event... just simply "we had our chances in the third and we need to bear down".

As a part of the goalie brotherhood, I absolutely want Otter to blow up PDB's career. That was complete BS. It's a team game.

Janmark isn’t exceptional on breakaways

 

[Arctic Fox]

You love to see it

Dallas should keep him for another year and wait till the team reaches the next WCF. Then, fire him shortly before the 1st game of the WCF. There's a pretty big sample size that it is their most optimal strategy.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I hope he gets canned. As a NYR fan I've seen DeBoer, you wont win a Cup with him.

Also, isn't it like a rule, to not throw your goalie under the bus? Weakest thing he could have done.

And do I recall an interview Oettinger had give (after the game to the crowd?) vowing to play better? That's some destructive shit.

Heartbreaking.