Did Carey Price live up to his 8 year, $84M contract?

[Hockey Outsider]

As I said, Roy had the better career. But he was on far better teams. And he was wildly inconsistent. I don’t remember Carey Price ever losing us a series but Roy did that multiple times. I still remember Cam Neely scoring from center ice. And Roy never beat a team better than his own, Price beat better clubs with regularity.

Imagine Price behind those mid to late 80s Hab teams. He’d have been insane. His puck handling alone was like a third defenseman. Imagine Roy behind Price’s teams…. Completely different careers if that happens.

Roy was much more consistent than Price, and it's not particularly close.

Roy played 18 seasons (minimum 20 games played). He posted a save percentage at least equal to the league average in all 18 seasons. He was at least 1.0% above the league average (ie posting 92.0% when the league average was 91.0%) in 17 out of 18 seasons. Roy was one of the most consistently excellent goalies of all time.

Price played 13 seasons (minimum 20 games played). He posted a save percentage least equal to the league average 8 times (which is a lot - but still nowhere close to Roy). He was at least 1.0% above the league average 4 times in 13 seasons.

The same thing is true in the playoffs. Granted, we're often dealing with small sample sizes - but the general trend holds true. Roy had a save percentage higher than the league average 13 times in 17 appearances. Price posted a save percentage higher thant the league average 5 times in 10 appearances.

There are other, more technical ways to define consistency (ie looking at standard deviations), but Roy is still ahead.

The statement that Roy never beat a team never than his own is obviously false. He helped upset the Red Wings, who were heavily favoured in 1996 (27 points ahead in the regular season standings) and again in 2000 (12 points ahead). Roy helped beat the Calgary Flames in the Stanley Cup finals twice (the Flames finished higher in the regular season standings both times, and they won the President's Trophy in 1989). In terms of other, less dramatics victories - Roy also helped the Habs beat teams that finished higher in the standings like the 1990 Sabres and 1993 Nordiques.

I agree that Roy played under more favourable circumstances than Price. But he was still a far more consistent goalie and he won a fair number of upset/underdog series.

 

[Midnight Judges]

BTW.... Lafluer. "never beat a team better than his team" . Do ya hold that against him too?

That's a standard that many of the old timers would struggle with. The salary cap has equalized the quality of the teams well beyond what was happening in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

 

[Breakers]

LTIR doesn’t mean living up to a contract.

 

[PaulD]

That's a standard that many of the old timers would struggle with. The salary cap has equalized the quality of the teams well beyond what was happening in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.

Equalized yes. Not as many lousey teams. and not as many powerhouses either.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Roy was much more consistent than Price, and it's not particularly close.

Roy played 18 seasons (minimum 20 games played). He posted a save percentage at least equal to the league average in all 18 seasons. He was at least 1.0% above the league average (ie posting 92.0% when the league average was 91.0%) in 17 out of 18 seasons. Roy was one of the most consistently excellent goalies of all time.

Price played 13 seasons (minimum 20 games played). He posted a save percentage least equal to the league average 8 times (which is a lot - but still nowhere close to Roy). He was at least 1.0% above the league average 4 times in 13 seasons.

The same thing is true in the playoffs. Granted, we're often dealing with small sample sizes - but the general trend holds true. Roy had a save percentage higher than the league average 13 times in 17 appearances. Price posted a save percentage higher thant the league average 5 times in 10 appearances.

There are other, more technical ways to define consistency (ie looking at standard deviations), but Roy is still ahead.

The statement that Roy never beat a team never than his own is obviously false. He helped upset the Red Wings, who were heavily favoured in 1996 (27 points ahead in the regular season standings) and again in 2000 (12 points ahead). Roy helped beat the Calgary Flames in the Stanley Cup finals twice (the Flames finished higher in the regular season standings both times, and they won the President's Trophy in 1989). In terms of other, less dramatics victories - Roy also helped the Habs beat teams that finished higher in the standings like the 1990 Sabres and 1993 Nordiques.

I agree that Roy played under more favourable circumstances than Price. But he was still a far more consistent goalie and he won a fair number of upset/underdog series.

The Red Wings were not heavily favoured on 96. Everyone alive back then knew it was going to be a series for the ages.

And no, Roy was not more consistent in the postseason. He had several years where he was the prime reason for Montreal getting bounced. Price got crushed early on as well but that was largely because his teams were getting curb stomped.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

The Red Wings were not heavily favoured on 96. Everyone alive back then knew it was going to be a series for the ages.

Windsor Star, May 18, 1996, but it's pretty representative of the betting markets at the start of the Western Conference Finals:

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ridiculous.
Neely scoring from center ice. ha! One goal your picking out? Same series Roy came back from hernia surgery and made 60 saves in a win?

I pick it out because he was awful that entire series and it encapsulated how bad he was. By 1993 Harry Sinden was publicly making ‘Patrick Foy in the playoffs jokes. I’m not making that up. I’m also not making up Montreal fans wanting to run him out of town.

Not like Carey didnt have his moments too. As every goalie does. Did you miss Careys melt down against the Flyers. His first play offs? Some guy named Umberger was pumping them by him. Carey third play offs hexwas riding the bench while Hakak took the job from him. Roy won the Cup and Con Smythe his rookie year.
You make it like Price beat the 80s Oilers.
ha!

Yeah, Price had his moments. Again though, usually it was his team getting curb stomped.

93 play offs ? Ya miss that too.
10 overtime wins.
I'll take Roy over Price and you would take Price.
I still like both goalies.
Even though Roy quit, I eventually got over that. ha! But I got over that. However I can certainly understand those who didn't.

Cheers

Like I said, Roy was a great goalie. But he was in front of the best defensive team of his era. There’s zero doubt that this conversation would be completely flipped if the teams were reversed. Roy would have zero cups and Price would have several.

BTW.... Lafluer. "never beat a team better than his team" . Do ya hold that against him too?

I don’t hold it against Roy but I bring it up because he gets a lot of mileage out of those two unexpected cups. Yes, they were unexpected but that’s because there were powerhouses expected to win. Roy never had to face them. And in his entire tenure, never beat a superior team.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Like I said, Roy was a great goalie. But he was in front of the best defensive team of his era. There’s zero doubt that this conversation would be completely flipped if the teams were reversed. Roy would have zero cups and Price would have several.

Too bad we only have reality and actual results. Roy >>> Price, I don't understand how the guy gets lionized so much.

 

[AvroArrow]

Put Price on that Devils team of the 2000s and the results are likely the same, best goalie of his generation IMO

That contract was a steal, just unfortunate they could never surround him with the offensive talent they needed

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Too bad we only have reality and actual results. Roy >>> Price, I don't understand how the guy gets lionized so much.

That’s because you don’t follow the Canadiens. And for the last 30 some odd years, I’d say you’ve been blessed.

You didn’t watch as they hired a guy like Michel Therrien who used a midget like David Desharnais at first line center when he had three better options available. You didn’t have to endure him telling PK Subban to play dump and chase hockey. You didn’t have to put up with these idiots not developing prospects for ten years or blowing up and young up and coming team within four years. He wanted everyone to play like Brandon Prust.

Yeah, Roy’s career is better than Price’s. And that’s how it will be remembered. But he wasn’t the better goalie, he was just on much better teams.

 

[Pure Laine]

Lol I love Price but he doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence as Roy in terms of comparison, especially for his playoffs resume. Just with the Habs, he went 3 times to the finals and on those years, has similar save % and GAA as Price, while playing in an era with higher scoring (again, for Roy's time as a Hab).

 

[VeteranPresence]

That’s because you don’t follow the Canadiens. And for the last 30 some odd years, I’d say you’ve been blessed.

You didn’t watch as they hired a guy like Michel Catherine out a midget like David Desharnais at first line center when he had three better options available. You didn’t have to endure him telling PK Subban to play dump and chase hockey. You didn’t have to put up with these idiots not developing prospects for ten years or blowing up and young up and coming team within four years.

Yeah, Roy’s career is better than Price’s. And that’s how it will be remembered. But he was t the better goalie, he was just on much better teams.

Roy was significantly better in every possible way, this is just insane revisionism not supported by any stat or measure.

 

[PaulD]

I pick it out because he was awful that entire series and it encapsulated how bad he was. By 1993 Harry Sinden was publicly making ‘Patrick Foy in the playoffs jokes. I’m not making that up. I’m also not making up Montreal fans wanting to run him out of town.

Yeah, Price had his moments. Again though, usually it was his team getting curb stomped.

Like I said, Roy was a great goalie. But he was in front of the best defensive team of his era. There’s zero doubt that this conversation would be completely flipped if the teams were reversed. Roy would have zero cups and Price would have several.

I don’t hold it against Roy but I bring it up because he gets a lot of mileage out of those two unexpected cups. Yes, they were unexpected but that’s because there were powerhouses expected to win. Roy never had to face them. And in his entire tenure, never beat a superior team.

And what did Carey ever win that he gets the nod over Patrick.
In his first play year the first place Habs were suppose to beat the Flyers. Price had a melt down ans stink the joint out.
Next season lost 4 straight to Bruins. Next season relegated to back by end of season andcrode the bench in the play offs. Next season lost in first round to Bs. Next season missed play offs. Next season out in 5 easy games to the Sens.
You arguement loses all credibility when you minimize Roys Stanley Cups combined with Consmythe trophies.
And in the same breath hail Orice as if he was the next Haskek.
So Sinden called Roy Foy ?
Remember Hab fans referring to Scary Carey?
So what? ha!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And what did Carey ever win that he gets the nod over Patrick.

An Olympic Gold. He was pretty much invincible that year. Roy didn't even manage a silver medal.

In his first play year the first place Habs were suppose to beat the Flyers. Price had a melt down ans stink the joint out.
Next season lost 4 straight to Bruins. Next season relegated to back by end of season andcrode the bench in the play offs. Next season lost in first round to Bs. Next season missed play offs. Next season out in 5 easy games to the Sens.
You arguement loses all credibility when you minimize Roys Stanley Cups combined with Consmythe trophies.
And in the same breath hail Orice as if he was the next Haskek.
So Sinden called Roy Foy ?
Remember Hab fans referring to Scary Carey?
So what? ha!

I remember how bad those teams were. I remember us getting curb stomped. And I remember us (as usual) not being able to score.

Carey Price played with one HOFer over the span of his career - the back end of Shea Weber, who was broken to shit by the time they made the finals. (I'm not counting guys like Staal who where here for a cup of coffee.) Just in 1986 alone Roy played with four other HOFers on the roster. Guys who didn't make the HOF on that team? Richer, Naslund, Bobby Smith, Claude Lemieux.... It was f***ing stacked. Even the other players not mentioned here were fanastic defensive guys. Brian Skrudland for example was a Selke nominee on a few occassions.

Price had Subban who played like a HOF for a few years. He had Markov and Pacciorretty. Good players. But they also had a coach that negated a lot of their strengths. They used DAVID DESHARNAIS as their first line center. Dumbest shit I've ever seen.

Don't sit there and try to pass this off as the same thing. It isn't f***ing close.

 

[PaulD]

An Olympic Gold. He was pretty much invincible that year. Roy didn't even manage a silver medal.

I remember how bad those teams were. I remember us getting curb stomped. And I remember us (as usual) not being able to score.

Carey Price played with one HOFer over the span of his career - the back end of Shea Weber, who was broken to shit by the time they made the finals. (I'm not counting guys like Staal who where here for a cup of coffee.) Just in 1986 alone Roy played with four other HOFers on the roster. Guys who didn't make the HOF on that team? Richer, Naslund, Bobby Smith, Claude Lemieux.... It was f***ing stacked. Even the other players not mentioned here were fanastic defensive guys. Brian Skrudland for example was a Selke nominee on a few occassions.

Price had Subban who played like a HOF for a few years. He had Markov and Pacciorretty. Good players. But they also had a coach that negated a lot of their strengths. They used DAVID DESHARNAIS as their first line center. Dumbest shit I've ever seen.

Don't sit there and try to pass this off as the same thing. It isn't f***ing close.

Price out and out stunk in the 08 play offs againt the Flyers . We should have won that series hands down.
He was benched 2 seasons later in favour of Halak. And Hakak took the team to the conference finals. 2010
Price didn't look so hot in the first round lost to the lowly Sens. 2013 As we got trounced in five games.
Carey him self admitted he was lousey in losing second round to the 2015 Bolts.
In between those years he had some great round against Bruins.

There ain't a goalie out there you can't find pits and valleys. Carey and Patrick are not exceptions to that.
But you know what is hard to find. Canadiens Goalies with multiple Con Smythes. 10 Straight play off over time wins. Leader in play off wins.
As one poster already stated here. Patrick matched Carey GAA in play offs evenn though he played in a higher scoring league.
I like Carey and he was the best player on our team no doubt......but he comes in under Roy in all time great Habs.
You and Harry Sinden cannot convince me other wise.

Cheers

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Roy was significantly better in every possible way, this is just insane revisionism not supported by any stat or measure.

Thanks for proving my point.

On paper, you’re right. Roy has the resume. No dispute.

But one was on stacked defensive powerhouses and the other is playing with mediocre to horrible teams. Completely different circumstances.

So sure, Roy had the better career. No debate. Better goalie? No.

I also find it hilarious that a guy like Dryden gets dismissed for the teams he was on while people ignore Roy’s clubs. Dryden led his teams to massive upsets as well but people forget about that. They just remember him playing behind Lafleur.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price out and out stunk in the 08 play offs againt the Flyers . We should have won that series hands down.

You have to score goals to win. In three of those four losses we scored two goals. So how exactly were we expected to win anything?

Meanwhile Roy got pulled in 87. Lost to a worse Boston team in 88. Stunk against Boston three straight years from 90-92.

He’s not the perfect machine people say he was. He was actually bad more often than good in Montreal. That’s why Sinden made him a punchline and Hab fans wanted him gone.

He was benched 2 seasons later in favour of Halak. And Hakak took the team to the conference finals. 2010
Price didn't look so hot in the first round lost to the lowly Sens. 2013 As we got trounced in five games.
Carey him self admitted he was lousey in losing second round to the 2015 Bolts.
In between those years he had some great round against Bruins.

Sure, Privw got crushed in those early years. But those teams sucked. As I said, it took him a while but those clubs did not help.

There ain't a goalie out there you can't find pits and valleys. Carey and Patrick are not exceptions to that.
But you know what is hard to find. Canadiens Goalies with multiple Con Smythes. 10 Straight play off over time wins. Leader in play off wins.
As one poster already stated here. Patrick matched Carey GAA in play offs evenn though he played in a higher scoring league.
I like Carey and he was the best player on our team no doubt......but he comes in under Roy in all time great Habs.
You and Harry Sinden cannot convince me other wise.

Cheers

You aren’t going to win Conn Smythes - let alone cups - on horrible teams. Patrick Roy never had a bad team in his life. Price’s best team would probably be 2015. Take the worst team Roy ever played on and it would kick the shit out of that club.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Played his entire career with Montreal without a #1C, at best he had one first line talent in Pacioretty and one solid pairing D in Markov and PK. Not a single 40 goal scorer or PPG player, more than the Kreider hit his knees gave out trying to carry a below average team every year. Deserved every penny he got even into LTIR and no doubt HHOFr

 

[PaulD]

Played his entire career with Montreal without a #1C, at best he had one first line talent in Pacioretty and one solid pairing D in Markov and PK. Not a single 40 goal scorer or PPG player, more than the Kreider hit his knees gave out trying to carry a below average team every year. Deserved every penny he got even into LTIR and no doubt HHOFr

Yes. Wevall know Bergeron never got a center. Poor Carey. Ge didn't have a better team. But you are not "enlightening" us like some expert who saw things we didn't.

Taking ALL of the circumstances that we die hard Fans fans are ALL are well aware of......on both goalies. I pick Roy ahead of Price.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes. Wevall know Bergeron never got a center. Poor Carey. Ge didn't have a better team. But you are not "enlightening" us like some expert who saw things we didn't.

Taking ALL of the circumstances that we die hard Fans fans are ALL are well aware of......on both goalies. I pick Roy ahead of Price.

You seem to think these guys were on an even playing field… it isn’t close. And the moment Roy faced adversity he quit in the middle of a game.

I realize I sound like I hate the guy and am bashing him. I’m not. But I’m hammering this home because people who didn’t see him play have this idea of him that he was a prerfect goalie. The reality is he was really, really inconsistent in the playoffs. When he was on he was divine. But when he was bad he was brutal.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

And the moment Roy faced adversity he quit in the middle of a game.

You'll have us believe that the Red Wings game in the fall of 1996 was the first time Patrick Roy faced adversity as a Canadiens player?

And you would earnestly call what happened in that game "adversity" and not something stronger?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You'll have us believe that the Red Wings game in the fall of 1996 was the first time Patrick Roy faced adversity as a Canadiens player?

No. After the cup win the team began being dismantled. The Habs were on the decline. They got cooked to the tune of 8-1 or something and he quit in the middle of the game. Then went to Colorado.

That Colorado vs Detroit series was packed with superstars on each side. Everyone knew it would be an awesome series and it remained that way for years.

My opinion is not a popular one. I’m comfortable with that. Like I said, it sounds like I’m bashing Roy, it’s not my intent. I’m talking about his negatives so people understand the basis of my opinion.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Yes. Wevall know Bergeron never got a center. Poor Carey. Ge didn't have a better team. But you are not "enlightening" us like some expert who saw things we didn't.

Taking ALL of the circumstances that we die hard Fans fans are ALL are well aware of......on both goalies. I pick Roy ahead of Price.

The question is did he live up to his contract and I’m saying for what he did in Montreal he earned it.

If the question is would I take Roy or Price I have to go with Patrick just based on what he did accomplish but he had way better teams in front of him even if they were considered upsets.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

That Colorado vs Detroit series was packed with superstars on each side. Everyone knew it would be an awesome series and it remained that way for years.

The Avalanche were heavy underdogs going into that series - see my post above:

Did Carey Price live up to his 8 year, $84M contract?

As I said, Roy had the better career. But he was on far better teams. And he was wildly inconsistent. I don’t remember Carey Price ever losing us a series but Roy did that multiple times. I still remember Cam Neely scoring from center ice. And Roy never beat a team better than his own, Price...

forums.hfboards.com

You may have missed my response the first time - that's fine.

You can reminisce about how great a series it was retrospectively (because it was a great series). That doesn't mean that the Avalanche weren't significant underdogs at the time.

If you judge whether or not Patrick Roy had any upset series wins by how his team did in the series, then of course you won't credit him for any upset series wins.

 

[PaulD]

You seem to think these guys were on an even playing field… it isn’t close. And the moment Roy faced adversity he quit in the middle of a game.

I realize I sound like I hate the guy and am bashing him. I’m not. But I’m hammering this home because people who didn’t see him play have this idea of him that he was a prerfect goalie. The reality is he was really, really inconsistent in the playoffs. When he was on he was divine. But when he was bad he was brutal.

Well go ahead with your campaign.
I don't think anyone thinks he was a "perfect goalie" Neither was Fuhr , but he greatvwhen he had to be in mat Cup wins. Like Roy.
Did Carey get the chances those two got You point out he didn't. That's doesn't mean he can be elevated and put ahead of them.
Roy stole many a series. And delivered Cups.
Carey fans can go consult with fans if Lunquist, Luongo, Joseph and the likes. Great goatenders. All a tier below Patrick Roy.