Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

MB3

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Jan 30, 2023
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Sharangovich was:
  1. Pretty darn good at putting the puck in the net if he was given time and space.
Sharangovich was not:
  1. Good at literally anything else.
  2. A good PKer (despite the fact that he played a lot of PK, which made me go to my local petting zoo and kick small animals.)
  3. Capable, in any facet, of creating that time/space needed to actually get that shot off on his own.
The people who miss him are the people who liked watching the highlight videos of him scoring goals. Which were fun! But pull up any other shift of the game and you see a player with the wheels of a sober beer leaguer, the hockey sense of a drunk beer leaguer, and the compete levels of a hungover beer leaguer.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,678
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Miami, FL
I'm not claiming he's gonna be a 30 goal 60 point player every year. But he should be around 20-30 goals 40-60 points for the next few years. He's a valuable player. And it's not like the gap between 17 and 13 is really all that crazy, it's a few extra goals.

If nobody cares about him, why did you bring him up.

I was fine with getting rid of Zacha for Haula, but letting go of Boqvist and Sharangovich never made sense and it never will. They are versatile, skilled players that can play up and down the lineup. Just because the team is playing well doesn't mean we couldn't use them - we certainly could have last year.

And we should allow ourselves to critical of bad decisions by management without being labeled "doomers".
How can you possibly say that they were bad decisions when the team is doing better and the players are doing worse?

Boqvist was non-tendered by NJ and then waived by Boston within 4 months of each other. He's not a good player, being better than MacDermid and Bowers doesn't mean he was worth extending. Sharangovich has 30 assists in 100 games since leaving NJ, how is that a versatile player? Do you really think Sharangovich would have scored 30 goals last year with the way that team was built and all the injuries we sustained? He was a healthy scratch in the 2023 playoffs. He is a detriment to his team when the puck isn't on his stick. He signed a 5.75M AAV extension that hasn't even kicked in yet, that's crazy for an okay PKer with a nice shot. If Holtz (who has more points than Sharangovich this season BTW) was given that same deal you would have had an aneurysm.

This isn't even mentioning Graves and Severson, both of whom signed long-term deals elsewhere and are in healthy scratch territory for their respective clubs. People were wringing their hands over them at the time and have gone quiet on that front too. Because Fitz made the right decision in letting them go. What's Kevin Bahl doing these days? Where is Nikita Okhotiuk? Does anyone know? Does anyone care?

Fitz had to make do with whatever Shero left him, now that he's had some time to build the team he wants to build it's clear that he has a great understanding of what the team needs and what the team doesn't. The pieces he brings in are always needed and the pieces he lets go are always expendable. I would have liked to have kept Zetterlund but Meier is clearly better, I would have liked to have paid less for an aging Markstrom but that's the goalie market and he's an obvious short-term upgrade over what we've had.

What bad decisions has management made that has hurt the franchise in a material, tangible negative way? Give me specific examples. Signing Palat was bad, sure. What else? Hiring Ruff is really the only other major one I can think you can argue for, and even then it's clear that Ruff was going to be a transitional coach and never the long-term answer.

It's hard to be critical of anything else because his "bad decisions" have amounted to nothing of consequences. Players who accomplish nothing with the Devils leave the Devils and then accomplish nothing with other teams while getting paid more. What's there to be critical of? Fitz makes the right decision every time, but people rush to jump to conclusions and make fools of themselves while doing so.
 

MasterofGrond

No, I'm not serious.
Feb 13, 2009
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Problem is, we need help in our bottom six because we have a whole line injured. You can't have guys like Jesper riding the pine or sitting in Utica for that kind of depth, because they're good enough for a full time NHL gig somewhere. Maybe we should have cut Bastian loose for Boqvist or whatever, but is that a needle mover? What we need is better top end Utica depth that we can call up, and that's got f*** all to do with keeping Boqvist et al. because those guys are necessarily going to be worse players than the Jespers of the world.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,678
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Miami, FL
Problem is, we need help in our bottom six because we have a whole line injured. You can't have guys like Jesper riding the pine or sitting in Utica for that kind of depth, because they're good enough for a full time NHL gig somewhere. Maybe we should have cut Bastian loose for Boqvist or whatever, but is that a needle mover? What we need is better top end Utica depth that we can call up, and that's got f*** all to do with keeping Boqvist et al. because those guys are necessarily going to be worse players than the Jespers of the world.
Yes. A 13th forward would not have saved the team last year. Lack of organizational forward depth is something that goes back to poor drafting in the late Shero years and our lack of picks the past few drafts.
 
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Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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Problem is, we need help in our bottom six because we have a whole line injured. You can't have guys like Jesper riding the pine or sitting in Utica for that kind of depth, because they're good enough for a full time NHL gig somewhere. Maybe we should have cut Bastian loose for Boqvist or whatever, but is that a needle mover? What we need is better top end Utica depth that we can call up, and that's got f*** all to do with keeping Boqvist et al. because those guys are necessarily going to be worse players than the Jespers of the world.

Boqvist is the only one where I understand their frustration, but he had been here 4 years and had never fully made the team - he played 70 games in the regular season in 2022-23 but only played half the playoff games. He doesn't make the opening night lineup in 2023-24, either. How long can you keep a young player who isn't part of the long-term plan for the team?
 
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Rhodes 81

grit those teeth
Nov 22, 2008
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I think it's time to move on from talking about anyone that left prior to this year. Rango has some value but I don't think he makes last year any better than Toffoli did, and I don't think he would still be here this year anyway. He had a nice season last year, probably the best he will ever have. Boqvist would have helped last year and is probably the most frustrating of any of these guys since they could have kept him pretty easily, but he's also just a pure replacement level player. He can eat some minutes and hold his own but doesn't move the needle. The Graves and Severson thing was beaten to death already and as much as I love Severson, our D is so much better constructed now than it was in 2022.

I'm much more critical of giving up a 1st for Markstrom, investing assets and 4 years into MacDermid, and giving 3 years to Dillon than I am bemoaning the lack of Jesper Boqvist.
 

My3Sons

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Boqvist is the only one where I understand their frustration, but he had been here 4 years and had never fully made the team - he played 70 games in the regular season in 2022-23 but only played half the playoff games. He doesn't make the opening night lineup in 2023-24, either. How long can you keep a young player who isn't part of the long-term plan for the team?
He'd be a nice extra piece to have as a fill in player but he's not a regular in a fully healthy lineup for NJ.
 
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devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
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Sharangovich was:
  1. Pretty darn good at putting the puck in the net if he was given time and space.
Sharangovich was not:
  1. Good at literally anything else.
  2. A good PKer (despite the fact that he played a lot of PK, which made me go to my local petting zoo and kick small animals.)
  3. Capable, in any facet, of creating that time/space needed to actually get that shot off on his own.
The people who miss him are the people who liked watching the highlight videos of him scoring goals. Which were fun! But pull up any other shift of the game and you see a player with the wheels of a sober beer leaguer, the hockey sense of a drunk beer leaguer, and the compete levels of a hungover beer leaguer.
I feel this is inaccurate, I thought, because of his straight ahead speed, he was pretty good at trucking up ice and ripping shots. Simple but effective north south game.

Plenty of holes in his game though, most of which is lack of compete, and the physicality through which that compete is often evident.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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Being 100% honest here:I like the extra/secondary pieces we have now more than 2023.

I'll always have a fondness for homegrown and drafted players but I think the players we have right now check many more boxes and address a lot of what was lacking in prior years.

Edit: I think it still could be better but we moved in the right direction overall.
 

devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
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What would be the wise choice to have more depth for the bottom six? Is it a trade for a underrated player or another call up?

We need help soon
I don't see it as a big issue.

Dowling has been fine. I liked Bowers. Legare had a good game the other night. Tatar might be back friday. Bastian shouldn't be that far off. Don't think Lazar's injury was a season ender.

We're winning games and for the most part playing well.

Just keep chugging fwd.
 
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devilsblood

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Mar 10, 2010
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I'll add to that while Dowling might be the only center option that Utica provides, there are multiple 4th line winger options.

Legare, Bowers, Beckman, Hardman, Halonen, Foote.

I think what we may see from Fitz is a rotation of guys so as to keep whoever is bringing the most energy at that point in time in the lineup. I definitely think that is what is going on with Legare. A little lightning in a bottle moment.

Think that may leave Foote out in the cold though.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
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Fitz is also on the record saying he is looking for a 4C and/or a top 9 forward that can push someone down the lineup.

He sees what we see and knows what this team needs to add for this season to be a success come April

But I really can't be negative or look back at the JAGs of the past right now. Team is playing well, winning games, in a strong spot in the standings a third of the way through the season.

Things are good right now
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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Our bottom 6 is fine for now. The top 9 are doing the bulk of the work I'm sure we'll make additions at some point.

Who cares about 4th liners playing 10 minutes a night or less...we have a solid top 9 where every single person is capable 14/15 minutes a night.

We definitely could use a 4th line center and maybe some additional depth but the personnel is fine for now...any more is gravy. And I'm sure we'll add some gravy in the second half of the year
 

Nubmer6

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Our bottom 6 is fine for now. The top 9 are doing the bulk of the work I'm sure we'll make additions at some point.

Who cares about 4th liners playing 10 minutes a night or less...we have a solid top 9 where every single person is capable 14/15 minutes a night.

We definitely could use a 4th line center and maybe some additional depth but the personnel is fine for now...any more is gravy. And I'm sure we'll add some gravy in the second half of the year
A bottom 6er who can win faceoffs and is defensively sound would really take pressure off the Hischier line.
 

JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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A bottom 6er who can win faceoffs and is defensively sound would really take pressure off the Hischier line.
Meh...Nico and his linemates are going to be getting big minutes regardless.

Maybe a bottom 6 faceoff guy could lighten the load on the PK for Nico but what are we talking about here shaving off a minute? 5v5, critical situations, Nico will be getting tapped no matter who we add.
 

longislanddevil

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Jun 16, 2011
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I understand why they did it. They thought they were getting a better goal scorer for Jack and didn’t have the faith in Shara to pay him what he ultimately got. In retrospect I think signing Palat was the worst mistake and would offer Shara over him but that’s water under the bridge. In any event I think that both would be expendable for the cap needed to sign Luke
Hey now!! You mean veteran leadership isn’t worth six million dollars per year? Haha….
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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How can you possibly say that they were bad decisions when the team is doing better and the players are doing worse?
The team is doing better because of solid additions in Pesce, Kovacevic, and Markstrom. You don't think having Sharangovich and Boqvist in our bottom 6 over guys like MacDermid, Bowers, and Dowling?
Boqvist was non-tendered by NJ and then waived by Boston within 4 months of each other. He's not a good player, being better than MacDermid and Bowers doesn't mean he was worth extending.
Boqvist is a skilled, versatile player who can play up and down the lineup - he's consistently produced like a middle 6 player at 5v5 in each of the last 4 years. I don't care if other teams waived him. He played great for Boston, especially in the playoffs, and has played well in Florida this year.

Letting him walk for nothing was a bigger mistake than trading away Sharangovich. At least there was some logic to that move (it still didn't make sense IMO, but it was defendable).

Sharangovich has 30 assists in 100 games since leaving NJ, how is that a versatile player?
How is that a measure of versatility? Dude can play C or wing and can play in all situations. How is that not versatile?
Do you really think Sharangovich would have scored 30 goals last year with the way that team was built and all the injuries we sustained?
He wouldn't have needed to. Potting 15-25 from the middle 6 is great contribution.
He was a healthy scratch in the 2023 playoffs.
Maybe the guy who scratched Luke Hughes to play Brendan Smith didn't know what he was doing.
He is a detriment to his team when the puck isn't on his stick.
Disagree - he's right in the middle of the pack
He signed a 5.75M AAV extension that hasn't even kicked in yet, that's crazy for an okay PKer with a nice shot.
And to your earlier point, he probably signs here for 3-4M if he stayed in NJ with less scoring opportunities. That's great value for a guy who should be a constant threat for 20+ goals and 40+ points, and can kill penalties to boot.
If Holtz (who has more points than Sharangovich this season BTW) was given that same deal you would have had an aneurysm.
Holtz is garbage. I said when we drafted him that it was a massive mistake. We won that Cotter trade by a mile.

Also, Holtz has less goals and the same number of points as Sharangovich, despite rango playing 7 less games with a 3-4% on ice sh%
This isn't even mentioning Graves and Severson, both of whom signed long-term deals elsewhere and are in healthy scratch territory for their respective clubs. People were wringing their hands over them at the time and have gone quiet on that front too. Because Fitz made the right decision in letting them go. What's Kevin Bahl doing these days? Where is Nikita Okhotiuk? Does anyone know? Does anyone care?
I was quite happy with those moves, so I don't know why you are bringing them up. Fitz has done a lot of good things, and a fair amount of bad things
Fitz had to make do with whatever Shero left him, now that he's had some time to build the team he wants to build it's clear that he has a great understanding of what the team needs and what the team doesn't. The pieces he brings in are always needed and the pieces he lets go are always expendable.
The fact that he brought in Toffoli, drafted Holtz, and signed MacDermid to a 3 year deal shows that maybe he's not perfect. And don't get me started on keeping around Ruff for as long as he did.

We're 8th in the league in p%, it's not like we're dominating the league. And that's years of tanking, where we were gifted two 1st overall picks, a 2nd overall pick, a 4th overall pick, and a 7th overall pick. And we still missed the playoffs last year. If this team wasn't well above average I would say it's been grossly mismanaged.

What bad decisions has management made that has hurt the franchise in a material, tangible negative way? Give me specific examples. Signing Palat was bad, sure. What else? Hiring Ruff is really the only other major one I can think you can argue for, and even then it's clear that Ruff was going to be a transitional coach and never the long-term answer.
Wasting a 7th overall pick on Holtz when Rossi, Perfetti, Jarvis, and Lundell were still available? Drafting Mcleod over McAvoy (and then re-signing McLeod despite the rape stuff being up in the air). And obviously Hamilton is a massive liability that we can't move.

Nemec over Cooley is starting to look pretty bad as well. But he redeemed himself by grabbing Casey in the 2nd.
It's hard to be critical of anything else because his "bad decisions" have amounted to nothing of consequences.
Nothing of consequence? You mean other than wasting a year of prime Hughes, Bratt, Hischier, and Meier because he extended a terrible coach, shipped out speed and skill for slow and heavy, and wasn't able to bring in a goalie? You don't think that's consequential?

Players who accomplish nothing with the Devils leave the Devils and then accomplish nothing with other teams while getting paid more.
Like the guy who left and scored 30 goals and 59 points last year?
What's there to be critical of? Fitz makes the right decision every time, but people rush to jump to conclusions and make fools of themselves while doing so.
That's provably false.

Fitz has made more good moves than bad, but to pretend that he's been perfect is nothing short of zealotry. I'd probably give him a C+. I like him as our GM, but he's human and it's okay to admit that.
 

swiiscompos

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Dec 9, 2018
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In drafting like in trades (to a lesser extend), there is always a big part of luck. Every single team, from the best run to the worst run, will always have a mix of better and worse trades, and a mix of better and worse picks. All that matters is whether in the long term the sum of the choices is improving the team compared to other teams.
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
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Additions of Noesen, Cotter, Kovacevic, Dillion, Pesce... Siegenthaler getting healthy again. Significantly changed the complexion of this team...for the better. And I much rather have this than Boqvist and Sharangovich.

The additions also nocked the youth out of the defense. 3 young defenders were just too much to overcome. Bahl looks to be doing well in Calgary and no doubt Nemec will become a solid player one day but you just can not have 3 young inexperienced defenders in the lineup full time. It was always a recipe for disaster.

This forward group is better than we've seen in a while And it is significantly less soft than in prior years. I don't think the defense is a good as 2023 but it's not terribly far off.

This is a much better overall team that can play more in the trenches than we have been able to in the past.

We wanted to be able to play in different ways and this off season was the most significant step towards that that we've seen.
 
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