Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What if Flyers offered us Michkov. Do we immediately say yes, as we still have Casey as RHD depth.

one of the few guys I'd do it for, but the Flyers would never do it

 

[Devs3cups]

What if Flyers offered us Michkov. Do we immediately say yes, as we still have Casey as RHD depth.

I'd probably do that, but Philly would never do it! Fun to think about though.

 

[Deviled]

LoL

Lets Go Devils

 

[Xirik]

besides the win I have to say that I am happy that even when our team loses or sucks we rarely have a Devils fan on these boards calling for apposing player to be injured purposefully.

 

[Casey Jones]

How could Pesce have zero points in 11 games? Is he trying to outdo Palate?

 

[Deviled]

LoL

Lets Go Devils

GGPZ

 

[Triumph]

Malakhov 1.0 was pretty good from what I remembered although he got a lesser role on the 3rd pair + PP2 time during the 2000 run. Lou wanted to get him back at the 2004 deadline when Stevens was hurt (Sather wouldn't deal him to us) and then unfortunately signed Malakhov out of the lockout in 2005.

Yeah, this was the only one I was on the fence about - I think Malakhov was fine, but he was a #1 D in Montreal and didn't really play all that well as a Devil during that run. Then again he was the RD on a pair with the rookie Colin White. It's funny how I'm talking in the latter part of this about how Fitzgerald won't remake the defense mid-season but it was remarkable how Lou did basically add two new guys and subtract two at that deadline.

Trading up and down is easier to do in the NFL draft with the sheer number of positions. If I recall correctly, the 2023 NHL 1st round featured no pick swaps.

Fitz took over in 2020 and I think there was some behind the scenes video from Buffalo's draft room with him calling about trading up to the Sabres pick at #8. Understandably the Sabres maybe didn't want to trade down to #18.

One of the usual pick trades scenario is moving a late first for a pair of seconds, maybe they considered that in 2021 with the Stillman pick (#28). Carolina traded #26 to Nashville for #39 and #50. Detroit traded #37 and #127 to move up to #35 for Shai Buium. Not sure Yzerman had more draft capital after he sent three picks to move up for Sebastian Cossa earlier in the first round.

It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall for the 2022 Draft and whether they fielded any trade calls from Arizona or Seattle. Arizona might have felt safe staying at #3 for Cooley and Seattle could have been fine with Cooley/Wright/Nemec and didn't offer up a big asset to trade up?

This past year I thought a trade down with San Jose could have made sense, but the Sharks did that trade with Buffalo (#11) instead. Maybe Fitz knew they had the Marino trade in their back pocket and/or they were happy to just take Silayev?

This draft featured three pick for picks deals before the teams were on the clock which was a bit peculiar. It's funny, the analytics guys seem to favor trading down and accumulating, but historically the teams trading up tend to do better.

I wasn't really talking about the 1st round where I agree, it's extremely difficult to move at the places Fitzgerald has been drafting, but just in general, Fitzgerald basically went 4 years without making a pick trade of any significance - Shero showed an aptitude towards getting an extra pick here or there if he thought he might be going off the board, and Fitzgerald hadn't done that until this past draft.

A) Kovy isn’t our best defensive defender, he hasn’t been this year and certainly shouldnt be ranked above Siegenthaler and Pesce who have done it more consistently.

B) I’m not even speaking about likely outcomes, otherwise none of my posts would include the disclaimers about how I don’t think it’s likely and I love how he has played so far.

If you think Kovy is untouchable in our pursuit of a Stanley Cup then you have more confidence in the composition of our team than I do. I’m willing to make any move to help - and Kovy being extremely cheap and a pending UFA makes him a desirable asset.

I will probably not go on further on this, since I was just playing devils advocate on the idea that trading good players is not a a “loser” move, it’s just a reality of a salary cap league.

I think he is untouchable in trade, yes. Tom Fitzgerald has shown absolutely no stomach for trading guys who are fitting in and playing well - the only one he's traded since he's started is Fabian Zetterlund. They will absolutely find other ways to fix problems.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

How could Pesce have zero points in 11 games? Is he trying to outdo Palate?

I couldnt care less if Pesce never puts up a point in NJ if he keeps up the D play

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yeah, what a weird thing to say lol. You didn't sign Pesce for points

 

[dgibb10]

He’s 20. You are losing perspective to say it’s now or never for him

If you don't trust your 2nd overall pick to play on your teams 3rd pairing going into the playoffs after he already has basically a full NHL season under his belt idk what to say.

Now, NHL gms have to answer to owners who will question the risk of trading away a currently productive player, so I understand WHY fitz won't move Kovacevic.

But we as fans do not, and if you think NJD SHOULDN'T, if it fills other holes elsewhere, trust Nemec to fill that role, then that's a disappointing outcome.

I do however understand that, in terms of fans, this is primarily just an overreaction to 20 games of the shiny new toy in Kovacevic. (eg, people who think we should clear out 1 or both of Hamilton or Nemec to accommodate a long term contract for Kovacevic)

 

[NJDfan86]

i think he is untouchable in trade, yes. Tom Fitzgerald has shown absolutely no stomach for trading guys who are fitting in and playing well - the only one he's traded since he's started is Fabian Zetterlund. They will absolutely find other ways to fix problems.

You think that Kovacevic will be retained?

 

[dgibb10]

e most likely deadline scenario is we part with some draft picks and a fringe prospect or two for some middle six help. i’m not against upgrading, i just wa

The problem with that is assets.

NJD has a long window.

We have now shipped out significant assets for Cotter, Markstrom, and Meier. Buying another couple rentals and then paying to ship out Palat leaves the cupboard pretty barren.

To ignore that we still need to figure out how to build a team for the next decade+ with Jack would be silly.

I don't think that, going into the playoffs, having Nemec in the lineup instead of Kovacevic is a meaningful downgrade, if a downgrade at all.

Kovacevic has been FANTASTIC so far. But we've already GOTTEN that production. If we trade him away at the deadline we still keep all the wins he helped us get. It is about going forward. And getting Nemec in the lineup+more assets likely helps NJD in the playoff run and beyond.

 

[Triumph]

You think that Kovacevic will be retained?

This seems like it's setting up a false choice, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I agree that probably too many other things have to happen so I'd put it at less than 50%, but getting Kovacevic on a Siegenthaler-type deal would be enormous and could be possible.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The problem with that is assets.

NJD has a long window.

We have now shipped out significant assets for Cotter, Markstrom, and Meier. Buying another couple rentals and then paying to ship out Palat leaves the cupboard pretty barren.

To ignore that we still need to figure out how to build a team for the next decade+ with Jack would be silly.

I don't think that, going into the playoffs, having Nemec in the lineup instead of Kovacevic is a meaningful downgrade, if a downgrade at all.

Kovacevic has been FANTASTIC so far. But we've already GOTTEN that production. If we trade him away at the deadline we still keep all the wins he helped us get. It is about going forward. And getting Nemec in the lineup+more assets likely helps NJD in the playoff run and beyond.

They have Nemec, Casey, and Silayev coming on D.

They have Gritsyuk and Lenni coming up front. No, neither of those guys are likely to be surefire 1st liners, but they can probably be middle 6 forwards which is what this team will need since we already have the top end guys locked down.

the Devils are one of the best teams in the NHL right NOW. There is no need to worry about future assets. Its time to win.

 

[dgibb10]

That all sounds great but you’re presuming Kovy is still elite to be worth any of those (besides Holtz) and if he is then Fitz probably wants him around. I love the thinking I just don’t see a world where it happens. If Kovy is so good that Fitz changes his approach on defense I wonder who goes and for what. Maybe Casey at the deadline/draft for something and Dougie in summer 2026 when Nemec needs to be re signed

I am open to moving Casey 100%. Not Nemec tho.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

My argument is $2.3 mil is not a big deal if we think Frederick is a significant improvement over Mac. And his 35 goals in the previous seasons, vs 3 for Mac, suggest he is.

I won't pretend to know how good a player Frederick is overall, but I'm pretty sure you won't find many guys who scored 35 goals the previous 2 seasons who are available for that cap hit, let alone half that cap hit.

And I know injuries happen, but where else are we looking to improve? The top 9 looks pretty locked in. The D is over stocked. Goalies are locked. The 4th line on the other hand is already severely limited including a guy who we barely play, protect the hell out of his minutes when we do play him, and he still get's crushed in terms of possession.

At the end the of the day it entirely comes down to how you evaluate the player. If you think he’s a 4th line guy who can’t get in the bruins lineup 2.3M is crazy. If you think he’s a solid top 9 player who can possibly push for 20 it’s reasonable.

 

[dgibb10]

They have Nemec, Casey, and Silayev coming on D.

They have Gritsyuk and Lenni coming up front. No, neither of those guys are likely to be surefire 1st liners, but they can probably be middle 6 forwards which is what this team will need since we already have the top end guys locked down.

the Devils are one of the best teams in the NHL right NOW. There is no need to worry about future assets. Its time to win.

I believe NJD is more than Capable of winning a stanley cup with a lineup of

RENTAL-Hischier-Meier
Palat-Hughes-Bratt
Cotter-Haula-Noesen
Lazar-RENTAL-Mercer
Luke-Pesce
Siegs-Hamilton
Dillon-Nemec
Markstrom
Allen

Replacing Kovacevic with Nemec in the lineup would not change my view of the devils cup chances in any meaningful way.

Same with a couple years back with Luke and Graves. It was "time to win" then too. But looking back, NJD would be in a much better spot now if they had trusted their stud young dman, and moved graves.

We likely would not even be looking for said Middle 6/Top 6 winger currently if we had done that, as they would likely be on the roster in the form of keeping Zetterlund or Yegor.

If you view it differently, you have either a lot more trust in Kovacevic to be a surefire stud the entire season and playoff run than I do, or you're a lot lower on Nemec than I am.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

How could Pesce have zero points in 11 games? Is he trying to outdo Palate?

Coming into this game like 1% of shots were going in for the Devils when he’s been out there, so no surprise. He’s been quite good and has helped Luke jump like 10 levels defensively.

 

[NJDfan86]

This seems like it's setting up a false choice, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. I agree that probably too many other things have to happen so I'd put it at less than 50%, but getting Kovacevic on a Siegenthaler-type deal would be enormous and could be possible.

Agree to disagree, don’t think they will commit $$$ to Kovy with the RHD depth.

 

[Devils731]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1857228532562231384

Marty also confirming the nickname was just made up by that writer.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah, what a weird thing to say lol. You didn't sign Pesce for points

Yeah i don't get that. Pesce is doing everything he was signed to do so far.

 

[devilsblood]

At the end the of the day it entirely comes down to how you evaluate the player. If you think he’s a 4th line guy who can’t get in the bruins lineup 2.3M is crazy. If you think he’s a solid top 9 player who can possibly push for 20 it’s reasonable.

I can't say I really know a whole lot about Frederick. But it looks like he's played every game for Boston and averaging the 7th most minutes amongst fwds. So I'm not sure how accurate these narratives are that he can't get in the lineup and is now on the trading block.

I do know he's a big guy who scored 35 goals the previous 2 seasons so that's something.

So I could see him as a guy who we plug into the 4th line for now, and could play in the top 9 if need be.

But yes it does come down to how you evaluate the player. But the $2.3 is a pretty low bar in terms of an evaluation hurdle.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I can't say I really know a whole lot about Frederick. But it looks like he's played every game for Boston and averaging the 7th most minutes amongst fwds. So I'm not sure how accurate these narratives are that he can't get in the lineup and is now on the trading block.

I do know he's a big guy who scored 35 goals the previous 2 seasons so that's something.

So I could see him as a guy who we plug into the 4th line for now, and could play in the top 9 if need be.

But yes it does come down to how you evaluate the player. But the $2.3 is a pretty low bar in terms of an evaluation hurdle.

Ya I could be completely wrong. I thought someone else said he hadn’t been playing and didn’t check. My bad if that’s not true.

Why were people talking about him as a trade option in the first place?

 

[devilsblood]

Ya I could be completely wrong. I thought someone else said he hadn’t been playing and didn’t check. My bad if that’s not true.

Why were people talking about him as a trade option in the first place?

Internet.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I definitely didn't think all of Fitz additions would pay dividends to this extent