Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - season begins!

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
29,224
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NJ
You really don’t understand how Jack, our supposed #1 center, not being able to win a face off isn’t a problem?

You don’t see how it causes problems in our lineup? How it shortens the lineup, forcing players to be FOGO guys way more than you should have to. How it hamstrings the ability to gain possession after a draw on a consistent basis.


Taking some overall team FO stats doesn’t really paint the full context of how it hurts our specific lineup.

FO’s on the whole don’t matter tremendously for the league, but in the specific circumstance of this team, Jack not being able to win a draw is problematic.
It’s surprising that the guy that wasn’t very good at faceoffs, that suffered an injury that specifically affected his ability to take faceoffs, didn’t get better at faceoffs. Sounds like he has an attitude and work ethic problem. We should continue discussing this for another couple pages.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
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Giveaways per season:

This year he has 11 in 8 = 1.3
23-24 = 71 in 62 = 1.14
22-23 = 85 in 78 = 1.08
21-22 = 60 in 49 = 1.22

McDavid giveaways in the same time period

This year, 9 in 6 = 1.5
Last year = 84 in 76 = 1.10
22-23 = 77 in 82 = 0.93
21-22 = 68 in 80 = 0.85


Once again, superstars tend to giveaway pucks once they realize they have to play hero puck. You can blame Jack or you can blame the fact he consistently feels pressured to do something for this team because they've won 1 playoff series and had one playoff appearance in his 5-6 years here.
 

Guadana

Registered User
Mar 7, 2012
8,522
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St Petersburg
It should work that way if you’re so bad that you’re actually detrimental to the team’s success.





How bad is it when Casey, an undersized rookie who just got sent down, looks better than what NHL considers to be the 20th best player in the league. LOL what a cruel joke on us.

20th best player. He’s not even the top player on his own team. Heck he’s not even top 3
Casey didnt look better than Jack. Jack isnt net negative player. He is missing puck here and there. Relax and turn off your expectations for every minute. If Jack isnt fully on he will not be fully on until he will gain form because it is what it is and how things are working in his body no matter what some guy or girl from USA, Finland, Russia or britain would want. He will not overplay his actual form just by will or decision, he still is a good two way player and creating chances for his partners and himself. We will not replace him now by anyone.
 

Cheddabombs

Status Quo
Mar 13, 2012
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Stop fighting!!

1729548544548.png
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
15,391
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Artemi Panarin, who plays a very similar game to Jack from the wing, has absurd giveaway totals as well

Last year 72 in 82
22-23 102 (LOL) in 82
21-22 71 in 75

Like, come on guys, we can shit on someone like Palat who deserves it over the first legitimate superstar we had at forward since prime Ilya Kovalchuk


Confused which emoticon to use, the like or laugh one :laugh::laugh:
 

SansaStark

Registered User
Apr 11, 2013
459
276
It’s surprising that the guy that wasn’t very good at faceoffs, that suffered an injury that specifically affected his ability to take faceoffs, didn’t get better at faceoffs. Sounds like he has an attitude and work ethic problem. We should continue discussing this for another couple pages.
This player is the most important player in the franchise. Our entire run for the next 7-10years is entirely dependent on his success.

He is really the only thing we should be talking about. Nothing matters more right now. Nothing even comes close to mattering as much.

Stop with your over simplified critiques. His injury matters to a certain extent but the excuse is running thin and every day that ticks by makes the injury excuse less viable.

And Jack absolutely has an attitude problem. Work ethic, perhaps. TBD on that one. But the evidence doesn’t help him on that front
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
15,391
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This isn't the damn NBA, one player doesn't make an entire roster lmao. If that was the case, the Oilers/Rags/Leafs would have cups by now. It's a star driven league, sure, but Jack Hughes isn't the end all be all for this team. Edmonton fans said this shit with Taylor Hall to discredit him and the guy walked out of that shithole franchise and won a MVP 3 years later. We still don't even have a long term line for Jack after the him/Meier play styles don't mesh.
 
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ZachaFlockaFlame

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Aug 24, 2020
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Yup, and again, even getting 40% with consistent faceoff deployment would be fine. However, he's completely unserviceable. The Jack fan club shouldn't argue with me; go argue with the actual coaching staff that clearly does everything it can to avoid deploying him in a true C role. They don't trust him. It screws up the rotation at ES and forces them to use 1 powerplay unit. That is 99% on Jack.

The other 1% is actually on Fitz. I pointed out the massive risk in heading into this season with the center depth as is and it's already problematic even with a 100% healthy forward core. He needed both Jack to round out his game AND Mercer to rebound production wise plus be a utility C as needed. Oh, and 100% health. Obviously still early and a new coaching staff, but he's only gotten 1 of those 3 things so far.

The folks laughing at this viewpoint are the same that ridiculed those of us who pointed out a defensive core of undersized/soft/ 5'11 guys would be a disaster several years back. At least this org and their brainiac "analytics" gurus corrected that mistake eventually.

Anyway, the faceoff stuff isn't the main issue for Jack. It's the unwillingness to round out his game and continuing to take away his teammates, overhandle the puck, etc. I have to reiterate this so someone doesn't go "you think jack is a BUM because he can't take faceoffs". Doesn't make him a bad player, but it prevents him from being what this org needs to contend and what 90% of this board has laughably already convinced themselves he is. I mean, how do you have a discussion with people claiming his shot is ELITE in this very thread for example? No one that isn't a complete blinded Devils homer would say that, so what's the point?

And he was still the best Devils player in a series where everyone got completely man handled by Carolina 2 years ago, Nico was a ghost that series and he's the most defensively responsible player this team has, McLeod got his shit rocked that series too and he's one of the better face-off guys this team has had since John Madden. If you're going ignore the fact the guy still produces in the regular season/playoffs with those faceoff liabilities then that's on you. I rather the guy's one shitty wart being an ass face-off man than someone who can't drive play 5v5, we can look right over the Hudson for a 1C who does that and a fanbase who are looking for ways to get him off their books in Zibanejad.
 

Whaddagoal

The Sheldon Keefe Era Begins
Nov 28, 2005
11,962
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New Jersey
I popped in to see what was going on and..

The first word I read was 'Zibanejad' from the end of @ZachaFlockaFlame post above

"'the hell going on in here..." Was my first thought.

Then I knew it had to be about Jack, because we all have been talking about Jack so far this season.

Look I think Jack needs a lot of work but he did look better increasingly the last 2 games. Need bigger sample size. Initial looks haven't been good, but he's getting closer to what we should expect from him.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
15,391
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I popped in to see what was going on and..

The first word I read was 'Zibanejad' from the end of @ZachaFlockaFlame post above

"'the hell going on in here..." Was my first thought.

Then I knew it had to be about Jack.

Look I think Jack needs a lot of work but he did look better increasingly the last 2 games.

The point was that there's no "perfect" NHL player, Sidney Crosby is the closest we've seen the last 2 decades in the league at center and he even started off awful defensively his first few years in the league. I'm taking Jack over 90-95% centers in the league as a starting point. The idea that the guy doesn't improve year to year is absolute garbage and just a reactionary take to this team being bad in his era
 

TrufleShufle

Registered User
Aug 31, 2012
8,389
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The fact that he lasted this long in the lineup shows how good of players he already is. He could of had one bad game and been swapped out for someone or sent down. I think he is on game 9 of his "9 game tryout" so maybe that will keep him buried in the AHL for the rest of the year to help slide his ELC over a year.

If the defense stays relatively healthy with Luke & Pesce returning than there really isn't much room for Casey. Hamilton, Pesce, Luke, Siegenthaler, Dillon, Kovacevic, Nemec are pretty much locks for our group of 7. Hatakka will be out for a hit and Misyul being a call up will probably block Casey out
I was joking, I think everyone is actually taking it pretty well lol. But fully agree.
 
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Deviled

Registered User
Oct 10, 2024
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Only two situations where faceoffs truly matter anyway, special teams and empty net situations. Rarely do teams score directly off a draw, something else leads up to a goal being scored. Oh, 3v3 is where it matters too but that's just a goofy format that it's whatever lol
I wont chime in on the Jack faceoff conversation..

but I do think faceoffs, in general, are underrated nowadays. Im glad as a team we seem to be pretty good at them, and would always like to be better at them as well

I dont know the stats and such behind faceoffs and their impact but simply as a hockey player and avid watcher, I like to think they still hold a level of importance to the league
 
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Deviled

Registered User
Oct 10, 2024
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I’m baffled at how anybody could be going full Chicken Little over this season so far. We’re 5-2-1 and leading our division!

How bad would this be if we were losing?!
Rangers probably leap us once they catch up in games but I too am satisfied with the beginning of this season. It was just as possible we start 2-5-1 and still recover just fine
 

TrufleShufle

Registered User
Aug 31, 2012
8,389
13,880
I wont chime in on the Jack faceoff conversation..

but I do think faceoffs, in general, are underrated nowadays. Im glad as a team we seem to be pretty good at them, and would always like to be better at them as well

I dont know the stats and such behind faceoffs and their impact but simply as a hockey player and avid watcher, I like to think they still hold a level of importance to the league
Can we just call it the "Jack off convo" for brevity?
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

Registered User
Aug 24, 2020
15,391
20,136
I wont chime in on the Jack faceoff conversation..

but I do think faceoffs, in general, are underrated nowadays. Im glad as a team we seem to be pretty good at them, and would always like to be better at them as well

I dont know the stats and such behind faceoffs and their impact but simply as a hockey player and avid watcher, I like to think they still hold a level of importance to the league

Meh, I'm indifferent on them, I've seen very good faceoff teams not make the playoffs and teams like the 21-22 Avs be bottom 5 at the stat and win the whole Cup. It's not something you build your team around imo. If you're good at them, congrats and if you're not, it shouldn't define your whole season unless it pops up in the areas I mentioned. They're super important in special teams/empty net since possession is VITAL, 5v5 it's pretty much a puck battle.
 

Deviled

Registered User
Oct 10, 2024
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Meh, I'm indifferent on them, I've seen very good faceoff teams not make the playoffs and teams like the 21-22 Avs be bottom 5 at the stat and win the whole Cup. It's not something you build your team around imo. If you're good at them, congrats and if you're not, it shouldn't define your whole season unless it pops up in the areas I mentioned. They're super important in special teams/empty net since possession is VITAL, 5v5 it's pretty much a puck battle.
Definitely dont think they are more important than most other factors; just that most teams probably covet the ability to win important ones and have some level of consistency with which to stem possessions from

Id be interested to know if the teams who excel at them season to season see more production or possession within a certain timeframe of said faceoffs; parameters im too sick to really think up right now lol
 
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