Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[glenwo2]

Not really. But we've already established most don't know what that means.

I think that was mockery.

Could be wrong...

 

[Devil X]

I guess we should all be grateful for Jim because if he didn’t come in here with Jim logic and comments we probably wouldn’t all hardly talk until September.

 

[glenwo2]

I like how when someone explains how Bratt is not soft, @JimEIV ignores that part and focuses on just one thing :

I wouldn't outright disagree with you. I think hard to play against and soft are two different things. And frankly yeah, I think we have been soft.

Probably because it's in agreement with whatever his viewpoint is.

But just in case he reads this, here is the part you ignored (will you ignore it again?) :

However, I'm starting to wonder if you watched Bratt last year. He was a beast. Guys were bouncing off of him and no one could get the puck from him or knock him off his feet. He didn't throw any big hits, but he was also anything but soft. He's just so talented he's often clowning players with his skating and skill. And people see that and think "perimeter player". That's simply not true. He's a freaking unicorn.

Admittedly he wasn't always that way. I think he took a big step last year and was noticeably stronger.

EDIT : Looks like he did ignore it. smh. Typical.

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

Harder to Play Against

"I think we are getting there," he said. "If you look at the lineup back then, you know, with certain players, they were skilled, but maybe on the, I don't want to say softer side, but not the hardness that we have now."

"I think that is a demand from the coaches, too. I think anybody can finish checks if they are asked to play harder."

- Tom Fitzgerald a year ago, with a similar quote two days ago

Top-Six

'While he didn’t get into specifics, Fitzgerald said he did have discussions with “true top six players” but opted to bring back Tomas Tatar — who got first line minutes with New Jersey in 2022-23 — when talks fell through.'

“I think when you look at the top six, I think we have plenty of top six players,” Fitzgerald said. “I also think we have enough complementary top six players that can play with true top six guys — and I’m not sure how many teams in the league actually have six top six guys. The Tomas Tatar (signing) was for a player that we’re very familiar with, we know he’s played really well with the top six guys on our team. So it gives us more flexibility.

“But when your phone rings for true top six players, you listen to them because they identified you as a team that you think they would fit. Then it’s a matter of working out the details of a contract.”

How crazy - Tom Fitzgerald himself says its a top-6 (not a top-9) and the roster needed to be harder to play against, even edging on calling them soft

Those arguing its top-9 or that 'harder to play against' doesnt apply to skilled players are just factually wrong and refuse to accept otherwise - just ignore them on this topic from now on

Seems more like people wanting to argue with @JimEIV than be intellectually honest; im sure they just know better than Fitzgerald, Keefe, and other NHL staff

 

[Goptor]

The way I see it, is

X - Hughes - Bratt
Tatar - Hischier - Meier
Palat - Haula - Mercer
Cotter - Lazar - Noesen
Macdermid, Foote, Bastian

Bottom 6 is loaded. Can try Mercer at center and move Haula down, many different options.

They have a unique situation where they have an open top6 spot and all the special teams roles covered. They can add a pure skill guy who can't stick on another team. There are no skill prospects in the organization so the space is available. Its also a spot playing with elite, high end forwards. There won't be a better option anywhere else in the league.

Or they can just try Foote there and pray he doesn't get injured.

 

[theoptimist]

I can't believe Tatar is on this team

 

[megajake]

The way I see it, is

X - Hughes - Bratt
Tatar - Hischier - Meier
Palat - Haula - Mercer
Cotter - Lazar - Noesen
Macdermid, Foote, Bastian

Bottom 6 is loaded. Can try Mercer at center and move Haula down, many different options.

They have a unique situation where they have an open top6 spot and all the special teams roles covered. They can add a pure skill guy who can't stick on another team. There are no skill prospects in the organization so the space is available. Its also a spot playing with elite, high end forwards. There won't be a better option anywhere else in the league.

Or they can just try Foote there and pray he doesn't get injured.

We didn't sign Nosen to 2.75 for 3 years to play on the 4th line

 

[Darkauron]

I guess we should all be grateful for Jim because if he didn’t come in here with Jim logic and comments we probably wouldn’t all hardly talk until September.

Nah.

 

[megajake]

Might as well wait to see if he sucks or not

Issue is if he plays really well with jack he might get over 3 a year

 

[Goptor]

We didn't sign Nosen to 2.75 for 3 years to play on the 4th line

He was a 4th liner in Carolina and played the net front presence on their PP, which upped his minutes. I expect him to have a similar role here.

 

[njdevils1982]

View attachment 892550

 

[Forge]

As long as we aren't having conversations about the lack of PIM with regards to being harder to play against, I'm all good.

I don't disagree with Jim that the team was probably "soft". I'm not a fan of adding "grit and toughness" for the sake of adding "grit and toughness". They still have to be able to play. I think Fitz did a pretty good job of that with the guys he got. Getting those guys who play that style and are true top two scoring line players isn't easy.

 

[megajake]

He was a 4th liner in Carolina and played the net front presence on their PP, which upped his minutes. I expect him to have a similar role here.

carolina has had some of the best depth in the entire league . He’s a great 3rd liner on almost every other team

 

[Billdo]

I wonder if we try
Tatar-Hischier-Meier
Haula-Hughes-Bratt
Palat-Mercer-Noesen
Cotter-Lazar-Bastian/Foote/MacDermid (holy f*** is that 4RW going to be bad)

 

[The Wumpus]

 

[McDuffz88]

I doubt it's going to happen but I really wish Fitz would trade for Colton. I really think he would fit next to Hughes like a glove. He can take faceoffs for Hughes, and be that complimentary player who will score 20 goals while doing everything else right. I wonder what it would take to get him? I like Noeson/Cotter/Tatar as much as anyone but we really lack a player who will play well with Hughes.

 

[JimEIV]

As long as we aren't having conversations about the lack of PIM with regards to being harder to play against, I'm all good.

I don't disagree with Jim that the team was probably "soft". I'm not a fan of adding "grit and toughness" for the sake of adding "grit and toughness". They still have to be able to play. I think Fitz did a pretty good job of that with the guys he got. Getting those guys who play that style and are true top two scoring line players isn't easy.

I don't think we did much to change the hardness/softness factor honestly. I think we just rearranged the furniture.

Dillion is a plus for sure but he's replacing Bahl who had 151 hits and 82 PIMs and killed penalties... Dillon is no doubt a significant upgrade but it's going to be at the same 3LHD slot doing the same exact thing albeit better and heavier. There is no wealth to spread here with this add. And it's still only 1 physical Dmen of 6. The one of 6 that probably will get 5th minutes.

Pesce for Marino does little to nothing in the hardness factor.

Over the last two years we lost Wood and McLeod and we are basically replacing them with Lazar and Noesen...I'm not sure we are gaining anything at all there, in fact it's probably a bigger loss than anyone is willing to admit.

But the real issue from my POV is softest part of the team has pretty much been exactly the same for a number of years... adding to the defense year after and shuffling bottom 6 forwards does not address the soft top 6 that gets the vast majority of the minutes. Meier definitely helps, but he hasn't been the force we need him to be since he's gotten here... I think a little more help is needed for guys like Jack and Bratt.

Edit: and I absolutely do believe PIMs are an indication of aggressiveness. Highly aggressive players take more penalties. And taking penalties because your aggressive and playing with an edge is absolutely not a bad thing. We need more of it.

 

[McDuffz88]

I wonder if we try
Tatar-Hischier-Meier
Haula-Hughes-Bratt
Palat-Mercer-Noesen
Cotter-Lazar-Bastian/Foote/MacDermid (holy f*** is that 4RW going to be bad)

Ehhh I would rather give Mercer the minutes to become a top line RW. He would be much more effective for us being a top line winer than a 3rd line center especially when we have Haula (who we brought in to be 3C)

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Harder to Play Against

"I think we are getting there," he said. "If you look at the lineup back then, you know, with certain players, they were skilled, but maybe on the, I don't want to say softer side, but not the hardness that we have now."

"I think that is a demand from the coaches, too. I think anybody can finish checks if they are asked to play harder."

- Tom Fitzgerald a year ago, with a similar quote two days ago

Top-Six

'While he didn’t get into specifics, Fitzgerald said he did have discussions with “true top six players” but opted to bring back Tomas Tatar — who got first line minutes with New Jersey in 2022-23 — when talks fell through.'

“I think when you look at the top six, I think we have plenty of top six players,” Fitzgerald said. “I also think we have enough complementary top six players that can play with true top six guys — and I’m not sure how many teams in the league actually have six top six guys. The Tomas Tatar (signing) was for a player that we’re very familiar with, we know he’s played really well with the top six guys on our team. So it gives us more flexibility.

“But when your phone rings for true top six players, you listen to them because they identified you as a team that you think they would fit. Then it’s a matter of working out the details of a contract.”

How crazy - Tom Fitzgerald himself says its a top-6 (not a top-9) and the roster needed to be harder to play against, even edging on calling them soft

Those arguing its top-9 or that 'harder to play against' doesnt apply to skilled players are just factually wrong and refuse to accept otherwise - just ignore them on this topic from now on

Seems more like people wanting to argue with @JimEIV than be intellectually honest; im sure they just know better than Fitzgerald, Keefe, and other NHL staff

Damn, that’s crazy. Mind explaining these 5 on 5 time on ice figures?

What’s more relevant, some rambling coach-speak quotes or how the team is actually deployed in the real world?

 

[Guttersniped]

I doubt it's going to happen but I really wish Fitz would trade for Colton. I really think he would fit next to Hughes like a glove. He can take faceoffs for Hughes, and be that complimentary player who will score 20 goals while doing everything else right. I wonder what it would take to get him? I like Noeson/Cotter/Tatar as much as anyone but we really lack a player who will play well with Hughes.

We don’t have the cap space and I don’t what we could trade them for Colton right now.

I guess Colorado would have to figure something out if both Landeskog and Nichushkin came back and no one else was on the LTIR. But what are the chances of that happening anytime soon?

That’s a rhetorical question because who f***ing knows.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Damn, that’s crazy. Mind explaining these 5 on 5 time on ice figures?

View attachment 892642

What’s more relevant, some rambling coach-speak quotes or how the team is actually deployed in the real world?

TOI is misleading in this case. McLeod, for example, got a lot of extra TOI when Nico and Jack were hurt. Those games where he was our 1C or 2C by default bumped his average up a lot.

I don't know if we will, or have, run a top-6 or top-9, but this season's TOI numbers with all the injuries jumbling lines and roles won't clarify it.

 

[Billdo]

Ehhh I would rather give Mercer the minutes to become a top line RW. He would be much more effective for us being a top line winer than a 3rd line center especially when we have Haula (who we brought in to be 3C)

The problem is if you're giving Mercer top line RW either Meier or Bratt is playing LW which isn't something either typically do or have shown to do well (Meier). I'm not saying I want Haula up there again with Jack but at least it would be with Bratt who has proven to be successful with Jack.

 

[MadDevil]

Does Timo not play left wing when he's with Nico and Bratt?

 

[TrufleShufle]

Timo is the only one we have seen a noticeable change when switching wings, but that also came with a new coach and getting seemingly healthy. I really don't think wing switching for a lot of wings is that impactful. Unless a shooter, like Timo, likes to play on their off wing.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

TOI is misleading in this case. McLeod, for example, got a lot of extra TOI when Nico and Jack were hurt. Those games where he was our 1C or 2C by default bumped his average up a lot.

I don't know if we will, or have, run a top-6 or top-9, but this season's TOI numbers with all the injuries jumbling lines and roles won't clarify it.

McLeod was a 4th liner the year before.