Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Tough or hard to play against?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Noesen in the top 6 would mean Mercer in the bottom 6...and if that's how they are going to mishandle Mercer they should get rid of him...

It's literally taking a 4th liner energy player and bumping a promising young player....not only bumping but bumping for a guy is is actually a bottom 6 player...it would make zero sense and put a two year anchor around Mercer's neck of having to play with shit bottom 6ers like Haula, Palat and McLeod and Lazar.

Hope that clears up your f***ed up glasses.

We have a top 9 and a 4th line. Palat was also much better than Mercer last season. Haula, Lazar, and the other guy were too.

 

[Forge]

There is no top 6 and bottom six.



Only a top 9 and bottom 3.

 

[JimEIV]

We have a top 9 and a 4th line. Palat was also much better than Mercer last season. Haula, Lazar, and the other guy were too.

That's more looney tune stuff... there's a hard drop in talent after our top 6. And Palat sucks.

 

[Zippy316]

Here is Noesen last 20 regular season games. No goals, 5 assist and 11:55 of ice time...this is true 4th liner stuff. The idea of him playing in the top 6 is a joke


Stefan Noesen Gamelogs for Games 347 to 366
GP G A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH S S% SHFT TOI ATOI
20 0 5 5 1 9 0 0 0 0 2 3 0 30 0.0 321 238:24 11:55

Feel like you’ve only proven the point for this here.

First half of the year, Noesen is a fine, not ideal, option to play in a top nine role and fill a net front role on the PP. After the deadline when the Hurricanes acquired Guentzel and Kuznetsov, Noesen was pushed down to where he should be in a more classic bottom-six role.

I would hope that’s the same scenario for the Devils this year.

Cotter is like a #12 or 13 forward, why on earth would they be playing him alongside top line players?

Vegas’ MO was playing guys like Amadio, Howden, and Cotter up and down lines 2-4 to create a balanced attack.

Cotter played quite a bit of time with Karlsson there. I think there’s a good shot we see him as a complimentary option on lines one or two so then Devils can run three even lines early in the year.

 

[JimEIV]

Feel like you’ve only proven the point for this here.

First half of the year, Noesen is a fine, not ideal, option to play in a top nine role and fill a net front role on the PP. After the deadline when the Hurricanes acquired Guentzel and Kuznetsov, Noesen was pushed down to where he should be in a more classic bottom-six role.

I would hope that’s the same scenario for the Devils this year.

We have Mercer... And they are both RW's. If your bumping Mercer for this scrub what's the long term view of Mercer?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

That's more looney tune stuff... there's a hard drop in talent after our top 6. And Palat sucks.

They’re harder to play against

 

[JimEIV]

They’re harder to play against

How hard can you be to play against with less than 10 minutes a game?

4th liners are hardly ever difficult to play against...wait 30 seconds and they come off the ice.

 

[Triumph]

I could see this for a few games here and there, but I do not think the plan would be for Noesen to play with the top 6 unless at least 2 our of the 3 of Tatar, Mercer, and Palat are just totally unplayable in those spots.

Maybe I'm surprised and he's just the perfect compliment to a Jack/Bratt pairing but I think things have gone really awry if he spends 15+ games in that role. I kind of think the top 6 wing spots outside of Meier and Bratt are Mercer and Tatar's to lose as it stands.

The thing is that Jack and Bratt have not played at all with Mercer in the last 2 years. Jack has played with Bratt, he has played with Mercer, but that has never been a line. Throw in the fact that Palat-Haula and Tatar-Hischier are two really good twosomes and that Meier and Hughes should be kept apart from each other and you don't have a ton of options otherwise.

That said, I expect Keefe to have to learn that Meier and Hughes shouldn't be put together the hard way, because it would solve a lot of problems if they could play together well, but evidence shows that they likely cannot. So I agree that it will not be a line from the outset, probably.

 

[Forge]

Vegas’ MO was playing guys like Amadio, Howden, and Cotter up and down lines 2-4 to create a balanced attack.

Cotter played quite a bit of time with Karlsson there. I think there’s a good shot we see him as a complimentary option on lines one or two so then Devils can run three even lines early in the year.

Yeah, his most common linemate at 5 v 5 last year was wild bill.

It's a long season. Players go through droughts. Line combos get stale. We will absolutely get guys like Cotter and Noesen getting some run with a guy like Hughes at some point. I think that's a lock.

There's a possibility that one of them just happens to have a weirdly good chemistry fit with someone like Jack and they keep them there to balance the line, but I think that's probably unlikely. Both will likely end up with "third line minutes" when all is said and done.

 

[megajake]

Cotter is going to surprise so many of you guys. He has some pretty good talent on the offensive side, could see him sticking with jack and bratt. Would love fitz to sign him to a long term deal before the season starts.

 

[Zippy316]

We have Mercer... And they are both RW's. If you’re bumping Mercer for this scrub what's the long term view of Mercer?

I could easily see a situation where the top three lines look like:

Bratt - Hughes - Noesen
Tatar/Meier - Hischier - Mercer
Palat - Haula - Meier/Tatar

Or injuries happen and someone like Noesen is up in the top six to keep Palat or Haula on the third line with a rookie or two.

It’s not the end of the world scenario that it’s going to happen. Probably not on day one, probably not until guys go cold or someone needs a spark, but it will happen.

 

[MartyOwns]

Noesen in the top 6 would mean Mercer in the bottom 6...and if that's how they are going to mishandle Mercer they should get rid of him...

It's literally taking a 4th liner energy player and bumping a promising young player....not only bumping but bumping for a guy is is actually a bottom 6 player...it would make zero sense and put a two year anchor around Mercer's neck of having to play with shit bottom 6ers like Haula, Palat and McLeod and Lazar.

Hope that clears up your f***ed up glasses.

i don't want johnny schnozzy in the top 6 either, but when we inevitably have injuries he'll be a fine placeholder. to say that mercer should be traded if noesen sees top 6 time in any capacity is either you exhibiting poor communication skills or you got one of those fishing lures stuck up your nose like homer simpson's crayon.

 

[JimEIV]

I could easily see a situation where the top three lines look like:

Bratt - Hughes - Noesen
Tatar/Meier - Hischier - Mercer
Palat - Haula - Meier/Tatar

Or injuries happen and someone like Noesen is up in the top six to keep Palat or Haula on the third line with a rookie or two.

It’s not the end of the world scenario that it’s going to happen. Probably not on day one, probably not until guys go cold or someone needs a spark, but it will happen.

Injuries sure... I mean with injuries you have to backfill the best way possible.. I don't care about improvised lines...

I'm talking purely when everyone is healthy under ideal condition... Noesen should be no where near the top 6 and neither should Palat or Tatar for that matter...but we going to have to make do with at least one player that doesn't belong

 

[TrufleShufle]

We have Mercer... And they are both RW's. If your bumping Mercer for this scrub what's the long term view of Mercer?

Mercer is not Holtz. He can play top or bottom 6 when "on it." When not "on it" he can be put into a bottom 6 role and hold his own and play the style that's needed of him in that role. He's still young, came into and made an impact in the league way earlier than someone drafted where he was is ever expected to, and hasn't missed a game since stepping on the ice. I strongly believe Mercer will only get better, by how much doesn't matter because he will be a long term asset to this team no matter what role he plays on it.

Let's not Zacha him, forget where he was drafted, what flashes he's shown and what you expect from him and realize we currently have the makings of a player we would 100% spend a 1st on at the deadline to shore up our playoff push/run. A Coleman if you will. But we already have him. Would be silly to write him off no matter where he plays in the line up this year.

 

[JimEIV]

Injuries sure... I mean with injuries you have to backfill the best way possible.. I don't care about improvised lines...

I'm talking purely when everyone is healthy under ideal condition... Noesen should be no where near the top 6 and neither should Palat or Tatar for that matter...but we going to have to make do with at least one player that doesn't belong

I often assume people understand what I mean and I probably shouldn't... definitely a communication flaw...

I just assumed people would understand that Noesen being a RW and Mercer being predominantly a RW creates an either/or scenario for the top 6.

Mercer is not Holtz. He can play top or bottom 6 when "on it." When not "on it" he can be put into a bottom 6 role and hold his own and play the style that's needed of him in that role. He's still young, came into and made an impact in the league way earlier than someone drafted where he was is ever expected to, and hasn't missed a game since stepping on the ice. I strongly believe Mercer will only get better, by how much doesn't matter because he will be a long term asset to this team no matter what role he plays on it.

Let's not Zacha him, forget where he was drafted, what flashes he's shown and what you expect from him and realize we currently have the makings of a player we would 100% spend a 1st on at the deadline to shore up our playoff push/run. A Coleman if you will. But we already have him. Would be silly to write him off no matter where he plays in the line up this year.

You're already writing him off if you bury him in the bottom 6 for two consecutive years.

 

[RSeen]

Mercer is not Holtz. He can play top or bottom 6 when "on it." When not "on it" he can be put into a bottom 6 role and hold his own and play the style that's needed of him in that role. He's still young, came into and made an impact in the league way earlier than someone drafted where he was is ever expected to, and hasn't missed a game since stepping on the ice. I strongly believe Mercer will only get better, by how much doesn't matter because he will be a long term asset to this team no matter what role he plays on it.

Let's not Zacha him, forget where he was drafted, what flashes he's shown and what you expect from him and realize we currently have the makings of a player we would 100% spend a 1st on at the deadline to shore up our playoff push/run. A Coleman if you will. But we already have him. Would be silly to write him off no matter where he plays in the line up this year.

I think Mercer can bounce back to being a 55+ point player again, plus hopefully with some growth over year 2 production. Perhaps if we can find a strong even strength combo for him, he can be a mid 60s point player.

Curious to see how a Meier-Nico-Mercer line could look.

 

[JimEIV]

I think Mercer can bounce back to being a 55+ point player again, plus hopefully with some growth over year 2 production. Perhaps if we can find a strong even strength combo for him, he can be a mid 60s point player.

Curious to see how a Meier-Nico-Mercer line could look.

I would love to see it but I don't think it can happen with part time top 6 minutes.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I often assume people understand what I mean and I probably shouldn't... definitely a communication flaw...

I just assumed people would understand that Noesen being a RW and Mercer being predominantly a RW creates an either/or scenario for the top 6.


You're already writing him off of you bury him in the bottom 6 for two consecutive years.

How? He's 22. How many long term bottom 6ers have we had through out the years older than that, that we didn't consider "writing off" and were huge parts of them team when winning?

He's got plenty of room to grow, whether this year or another. This is eerily similar to someone, I don't remember who, freaking out about not being able to fix the defense after the Bahl trade, because won't be able to get solid d-men to replace what left who can also PK. Nobody could convince them otherwise no matter how hard they tried and then after it happened that person went "oh, nice."

Take a lesson from that guy, don't stress it. Mercer will end up where he should end up and no matter where that is will be an effective part of this team going forward.

 

[Guttersniped]

Cotter is going to surprise so many of you guys. He has some pretty good talent on the offensive side, could see him sticking with jack and bratt. Would love fitz to sign him to a long term deal before the season starts.

Cotter has 2 years/775k and then is a RFA. The dirt cheap contract is why Vegas got as much as they did.

 

[My3Sons]

How hard can you be to play against with less than 10 minutes a game?

4th liners are hardly ever difficult to play against...wait 30 seconds and they come off the ice.

I think you are now stretching Fitz’s definition. Where did he say that hard to play against includes a time element? Maybe he did and I missed it? If Noesen can only give them bottom six minutes and be hard to play against during those minutes I think he fulfills some of what Fitz wants. I’m sure Fitz would love a guy who can be a menace for 20 minutes a night but at less than $3 mil per you get what you pay for.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I also have hard time to believe there were a lot of teams lining to sign that 3-year and 2.75M AAV deal with Noesen.

considering how many “it’s the summer of Big Hockey Men” articles have been written over the past few days, and the Jeannot and Trenin deals, i don’t have a hard time believing that at all.

Cotter is going to surprise so many of you guys. He has some pretty good talent on the offensive side, could see him sticking with jack and bratt. Would love fitz to sign him to a long term deal before the season starts.

I’m really really looking forward to seeing him next season. I said it earlier, get the Shaq memes ready.

 

[megajake]

Cotter has 2 years/775k and then is a RFA. The dirt cheap contract is why Vegas got as much as they did.

Yes give him another 4 years on top of that

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Yes give him another 4 years on top of that

Might as well wait to see if he sucks or not

 

[Rhodes 81]

Yeah Cotter is being written off a bit here, and he's not an identical player, but he definitely has shades of Miles Wood to him in terms of the type of game he can play and the impacts he can make for a team. Not worth a huge contract and still best when playing on your 4th line, but you can play him up a line or two sometimes and not feel awful about it.