Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[My3Sons]

It's not subjective... it's not mine or your definitions...

It's what Fitz means when he says over and over that he wants to be tougher to play against.

He's told us what he means many different times.

It seems many want to make ambiguous as to not address the reality of our softness.

So you are adopting Fitz’s definition and position? That’s fine just trying to help clarify. I can accept what Fitz is saying but to me I think he’s blending multiple definitions of the term some of which have some overlap but some aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[JimEIV]

So you are adopting Fitz’s definition and position? That’s fine just trying to help clarify. I can accept what Fitz is saying but to me I think he’s blending multiple definitions of the term some of which have some overlap but some aren’t mutually exclusive.

Fitz is the only definition that matters.

 

[Zippy316]

Looking at the remaining UFAs and can’t help but see both Vrana and Kubalik as intriguing PTO options.

With the Devils starting the year off in Prague and a little light on forwards up front, I would think we would be desirable destinations for both players. Vrana would be my preferred target, it feels like he could be dynamite next to Hughes if he gets back to his Washington days.

Funny enough you can say the same for Buffalo too.

 

[My3Sons]

Fitz is the only definition that matters.

Apparently not to some folks but I agree he’s the official spokesman although there is supposed to be a consensus view he has to achieve given what we understand about the NJ decision making.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I don't really understand the sheltering argument with Noesen. Yeah, Noesen faced weaker opposition than most 'Canes forwards, but he also dominated those minutes - he has the highest xGF% among forwards on that team over the last two seasons.

I also do not believe that there weren't other teams interested in Noesen. There is so much cap space available right now. There are teams who just plain missed on a lot of the stuff they might've wanted to do. The 3rd year is quite bad, I agree, but that's usually the cost of doing business. I'd rather have Noesen for this season than try to find a cheaper version of him.

Also I don't believe that Noesen is destined to be a 3rd or 4th line player, at least not this season. He could see significant time with Hughes.

I can buy all the other arguments except that Noesen is going to see significant time with Hughes. With his skating, I just don't see that.

 

[JimEIV]

I can buy all the other arguments except that Noesen is going to see significant time with Hughes. With his skating, I just don't see that.

If they would put Toffoli's skating with Hughes they'd put anyone's skating with Hughes.

 

[Triumph]

I can buy all the other arguments except that Noesen is going to see significant time with Hughes. With his skating, I just don't see that.

Let's just say that I disagree with that, too. It's possible that Noesen and Hughes don't play together, but I do not think it will be skating that keeps them apart.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Noesen in the top 6 is gross.

If Noesen is the top 6 for any amount of time we should trade Mercer.

Immediately

He is hard to play against.

 

[JimEIV]

He is hard to play against.

Not really. But we've already established most don't know what that means.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I'm not so sure about this. I can see Tatar-Hischier-Meier/Bratt-Hughes-Noesen/Palat-Haula-Mercer as a top 9.

I could see this for a few games here and there, but I do not think the plan would be for Noesen to play with the top 6 unless at least 2 our of the 3 of Tatar, Mercer, and Palat are just totally unplayable in those spots.

Maybe I'm surprised and he's just the perfect compliment to a Jack/Bratt pairing but I think things have gone really awry if he spends 15+ games in that role. I kind of think the top 6 wing spots outside of Meier and Bratt are Mercer and Tatar's to lose as it stands.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Not really. But we've already established most don't know what that means.

Large physical wing that is fantastic in front of the net and on the boards is not hard to play against. I’m glad we’ve established that this phrase means absolutely nothing.

 

[Zippy316]

I think we need to come to terms with the fact that both Cotter and Noesen will play minutes in a complimentary role opposite Bratt, Hughes, and maybe even Hischier.

I can already see Cotter/Noesen - Hughes - Bratt being a line at some point.

I would hope it’s not the case by game 82 and we add scoring depth to push them back to their rightful spots on lines 3 and 4. But for the first half or so of the season, it will definitely happen.

 

[guitarguyvic]

That is 100% true, but I tried to make it as simple as possible with the Brad Marchand/Jack Hughes example. One is "hard to play against", the other is insanely difficult to play against and way better at hockey. Was met with "simply means big." That's what's telling me people are actively ignoring what is being said.

What you’re describing is just classic straw manning and it’s an epidemic here.

 

[JimEIV]

Large physical wing that is fantastic in front of the net and on the boards is not hard to play against. I’m glad we’ve established that this phrase means absolutely nothing.

Here is Noesen last 20 regular season games. No goals, 5 assist and 11:55 of ice time...this is true 4th liner stuff. The idea of him playing in the top 6 is a joke


Stefan Noesen Gamelogs for Games 347 to 366
GP G A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH S S% SHFT TOI ATOI
20 0 5 5 1 9 0 0 0 0 2 3 0 30 0.0 321 238:24 11:55

 

[guitarguyvic]

I think we need to come to terms with the fact that both Cotter and Noesen will play minutes in a complimentary role opposite Bratt, Hughes, and maybe even Hischier.

I can already see Cotter/Noesen - Hughes - Bratt being a line at some point.

I would hope it’s not the case by game 82 and we add scoring depth to push them back to their rightful spots on lines 3 and 4. But for the first half or so of the season, it will definitely happen.

Cotter is like a #12 or 13 forward, why on earth would they be playing him alongside top line players?

 

[JimEIV]

Noesen averaged 9:22 in the playoffs, 11:55 down the stretch and he's going to be top 6 here? Some of this stuff is pure Looney tunes.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Here is Noesen last 20 regular season games. No goals, 5 assist and 11:55 of ice time...this is true 4th liner stuff. The idea of him playing in the top 6 is a joke


Stefan Noesen Gamelogs for Games 347 to 366
GP G A PTS +/- PIM EV PP SH GW EV PP SH S S% SHFT TOI ATOI
20 0 5 5 1 9 0 0 0 0 2 3 0 30 0.0 321 238:24 11:55

63% expected goal share in that time frame. Very hard to play against.

 

[JimEIV]

63% expected goal share in that time frame. Very hard to play against.

 

[guitarguyvic]

My assumption was that Noesen was signed to be a really good fourth liner who can play up in the middle six when there are injuries.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Noesen averaged 9:22 in the playoffs, 11:55 down the stretch and he's going to be top 6 here? Some of this stuff is pure Looney tunes.

9 goals in 30 playoff games. Nice!

 

[MartyOwns]

If Noesen is the top 6 for any amount of time we should trade Mercer.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

63% expected goal share in that time frame. Very hard to play against.

If he was so good, why they didn't play him more?

 

[Forge]

My assumption was that Noesen was signed to be a really good fourth liner who can play up in the middle six when there are injuries.

Definitely not 4th line imo. Third line would seem more likely. I could see him sneak on to Jack's wing every now and again as a way to change some things up.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

If he was so good, why they didn't play him more?

Don’t know. But there’s definitely no “if” about his impacts. Objectively good.

 

[JimEIV]

View attachment 892597

Noesen in the top 6 would mean Mercer in the bottom 6...and if that's how they are going to mishandle Mercer they should get rid of him...

It's literally taking a 4th liner energy player and bumping a promising young player....not only bumping but bumping for a guy is is actually a bottom 6 player...it would make zero sense and put a two year anchor around Mercer's neck of having to play with shit bottom 6ers like Haula, Palat and McLeod and Lazar.

Hope that clears up your f***ed up glasses.