Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[JimEIV]

Compared to a player who scores at an identical rate.

So the guy who fights and hits at a two to one rate vs a guy that doesn't really fight or stand up for teammates that scores at the same rate?

And one is the captain of his team...

Now we are starting to flesh out this skeleton a little more....are we looking for a dollar amount?

 

[dgibb10]

So the guy who fights and hits at a two to one rate vs a guy that doesn't really fight or stand up for teammates that scores at the same rate?

And is the captain of his team...

Now we starting to flesh out this skeleton a little more....are we looking for a dollar amount?

Brady Tkachuk and Timo Meier fought to protect their teammates the same amount of times this year. once each (Brady may have 2, I'd have to rewatch the tapes). If you count the Cross check to the jaw that Meier took standing up for a dirty hit on Luke Hughes vs colorado, then it becomes 2 to 1

Most of brady tkachuks fights are either: A) brady tkachuk hits someone in a dirty way, starting a fight, or B) someone hits brady tkachuk in a way he doesn't like, starting a fight, or C) Brady tkachuk runs over a goalie, starting a fight

 

[My3Sons]

Timo. 111 hits. 154 last time he was healthy.

Matthew 151 hits

Brady 294 hits

Brady is on another level physical
of all 3.

Brady is very talented but he’s a fraud. Tell me the next time he gets physical with a big mean player.

 

[bossram]

The bottom line is, yeah Brady is a good, even great player, but you're right, most of us wouldn't trade Nemec for him.

He's a very good player. But I don't get the incessant clamouring for the captain of a loser team that has had basically no progression over his entire tenure. The culture and habits of the team are partly on him. He's captain.

 

[JimEIV]

Brady is very talented but he’s a fraud. Tell me the next time he gets physical with a big mean player.

He's fought E. Kane and Trouba what you talking about?

He's a very good player. But I don't get the incessant clamouring for the captain of a loser team that has had basically no progression over his entire tenure. The culture and habits of the team are partly on him. He's captain.

This is precisely why he needs to get out of Ottawa .

 

[Guttersniped]

Yes, Brady Tkachuk is ALMOST as good a goal scorer as matthew.

Unfortunately Matthew is twice the playmaker, and vastly better defensively. Brady Tkachuk also has somewhat inflated expected goals numbers.

Over his career Brady tkachuk has had 224 expected goals. Only 162 actual goals. It is not a 1 year unlucky trend. Every, single year, his actual goal numbers vastly trail behind his expected numbers.

22 goals on 28 xgoals, 21 goals on 34 xgoals, 17 goals on 27 xgoals, 30 goals on 36 xgoals, 35 goals on 52 xgoals, 37 goals on 57 xgoals. Those are the years of Brady's career.

If a player outperforms their expected goals every year then that trend will likely continue.

Top players often do that.

The reverse can be true too (see Severson, Damon)

He’s an excellent player.

But c’mon now.

He’s signed for 4 more years and they want to win now.

 

[AfroThunder396]

We all thought that getting a big physical power forward like Timo would make us tougher to play against, and here we are almost 18 months later talking about bringing in another big physical guy to make us tougher to play against. What does that tell you about the difference that one big physical power forward does to the makeup of a team? Two is now the magic number of guys you need?

Brady Tkachuk a very good top-6 winger who generates a lot of chances and points, that's the reason we should be interested in adding him. Not because he will show up and magically solve all the problems with the team. To pretend that will happen is pure fantasy. He would help us win more because he's a great player, not because he's "tough,"

 

[JimEIV]

Brady Tkachuk and Timo Meier fought to protect their teammates the same amount of times this year. once each (Brady may have 2, I'd have to rewatch the tapes). If you count the Cross check to the jaw that Meier took standing up for a dirty hit on Luke Hughes vs colorado, then it becomes 2 to 1

Most of brady tkachuks fights are either: A) brady tkachuk hits someone in a dirty way, starting a fight, or B) someone hits brady tkachuk in a way he doesn't like, starting a fight, or C) Brady tkachuk runs over a goalie, starting a fight

Timo Meier had one fight this year vs Anders Lee according to Hockey Fights

Brady had two. One against Brendan Dillon (oh no one tough) and the other against Mackey

 

[devilsblood]

Well we have established that all the other elements are virtually identical.

So again, how much does 150 hits, and a few fights a year provide in value compared to a player without that.

Significantly more assists for brady vs timo though.

So more hits. More assists.

But I’m not even sure why Timo is in the discussion.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Edit: Fixed.

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

Dillon 5 and 11?

Modern Colin White?

 

[britdevil]

Dillon 5 and 11?

We have two Dillon's??? Sweet!

 

[Xirik]

This part of the video freaked me out.

 

[JimEIV]

We all thought that getting a big physical power forward like Timo would make us tougher to play against, and here we are almost 18 months later talking about bringing in another big physical guy to make us tougher to play against. What does that tell you about the difference that one big physical power forward does to the makeup of a team? Two is now the magic number of guys you need?

Brady Tkachuk a very good top-6 winger who generates a lot of chances and points, that's the reason we should be interested in adding him. Not because he will show up and magically solve all the problems with the team. To pretend that will happen is pure fantasy. He would help us win more because he's a great player, not because he's "tough,"

Timo didn't play like a big physical winger aside from about two weeks at the end of the year.

And our "big physical winger" was laid out cold in the playoffs... that's not how it's supposed to work either.

 

[HobokenIrish]

Dillon 5 and 11?

I think he meant that Noesen would have 11

 

[My3Sons]

He's fought E. Kane and Trouba what you talking about?


This is precisely why he needs to get out of Ottawa .

Trouba is a cheap shot artist not a tough guy in thr NHL. Kane is tough. I’ve also seen Tkachuck turtle against Smtih multiple times. He will hit guys in the run of play but he backs down plenty when the opponents are equally physical.

 

[MartyOwns]

i would love to have brady here, but the cost would be nemec+. him for nemec straight up, if we had the space (meaning if we didn't have a 3rd liner making $6m a year) i would think long and hard about it.

all moot though, the sens aren't trading their best player.

 

[devilsblood]

We all thought that getting a big physical power forward like Timo would make us tougher to play against, and here we are almost 18 months later talking about bringing in another big physical guy to make us tougher to play against. What does that tell you about the difference that one big physical power forward does to the makeup of a team? Two is now the magic number of guys you need?

Brady Tkachuk a very good top-6 winger who generates a lot of chances and points, that's the reason we should be interested in adding him. Not because he will show up and magically solve all the problems with the team. To pretend that will happen is pure fantasy. He would help us win more because he's a great player, not because he's "tough,"

We’ve also added Cotter, Noesen and Dillon. So i don’t think there is a magic number. I think the idea is the more the merrier.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Other elements really aren't identical though.

What does this matter? Brady's team won that *regular season* game to go to 9-13-1.

Meanwhile, Meier took a hit in game 7 of a playoff series that his team won.

 

[devilsblood]

i would love to have brady here, but the cost would be nemec+. him for nemec straight up, if we had the space (meaning if we didn't have a 3rd liner making $6m a year) i would think long and hard about it.

all moot though, the sens aren't trading their best player.

This hypothetical is based on two assumptions.

1. Sens stink again

2)Brady makes a stink


would they trade him at that point? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[JK3]

Can we call him Brady TkachukTuagh?

 

[Nubmer6]

But I’m not even sure why Timo is in the discussion.

Sorry, my fault. I was just comparing Brady to Meier, saying he's not much better, and I wouldn't trade Nemec for him.

 

[Guttersniped]

Timo didn't play like a big physical winger aside from about two weeks at the end of the year.

And our "big physical winger" was laid out cold in the playoffs... that's not how it's supposed to work either.

“That’s not how it’s supposed to work” lol

Yes, big gritty players never get hurt, are always unstoppable, and never let you down.

Like stuffed animals, they make you feel safe and warm.

 

[dgibb10]

Significantly more assists for brady vs timo though.

So more hits. More assists.

But I’m not even sure why Timo is in the discussion.

Because Timo was traded recently. 9 years of Timo at 8.2 million AAV (3 mill+8.8x8/9). It is a baseline to go off of with a relatively known value

 

[Nubmer6]

Because Timo was traded recently. 9 years of Timo at 8.2 million AAV (3 mill+8.8x8/9). It is a baseline to go off of with a relatively known value

I thought we were talking whether he was worth Nemec in trade, not how much his salary should be.