Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[TrufleShufle]

Follow the conversation. I suggested you can throw Palat in a complementary role next to Nico and the line will work fine. Is he not “harder to play against” (your definition) than Rodrigues? He wasn’t using the phrase in that way.

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He’s saying we’re flatly not good enough to have a player like that in a supporting role. They’re “beastly”, we’re little league. He even said Palat was “done” in another post. Doesn’t sound at all like what you’re saying.

Well forcing me to defend everything Jim says isn't going to lead anywhere. First of all I think Nico is 100% hard to play against, So it's not going to work with me defending anything he said there. Florida's top six didn't have the skill we have up top but they had guys who were more than skilled enough but had more of the "harder to play against" style.

I think this team is going to be fine because I think we made a couple additions that will pay dividends in the "harder to play against" category. But I would not be against someone with a little more snarl who had the skill to keep up in the top 6.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Yeah people think about "hard to play against" as hard to play against physically. As in, "I'm getting punished in the corners all day." But you can also be hard to play against mentally, either because you're a little asshole, like Marchand et al, or just because if they lose focus for one second you've blown by them and created an odd-man look.

Jack and Bratt absolutely ARE hard to play against that way, and I think other players would agree with Pesce there.

(And even this ignores the physical aspect of having to keep up with Jack going up and down the ice shift after shift, game after game).

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

The Little League comment was in comparison to Florida... and they are.

All according to Hockey Reference

Jack Hughes 5'11 - 175
Jesper Bratt 5'10 -175
Nico Hischier 6'1 -175*. If you don't like the listing write Hockey Reference.



Matthew Tkachuk 6'1 - 201
Alexander Barkov 6'3 - 215
Sam Reinhart 6-2 - 193

214'' vs 222''
525 lbs vs 609 lbs

We giving up 8'' and 84 lbs in just 3 guys...... f***ing little league

In the real world, Jesper Bratt is 15 lbs heavier than he was as a rookie. Nico at least 20 lbs heavier. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Oh the horror

 

[MasterofGrond]

At the end of the day, the very hardest teams to play against are the ones that are good.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Oh the horror

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That was last season

This is the latest averages for 24-25

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Also, a top 3 reason why the Panthers are champions:

 

[Emperoreddy]

They had healthy Jack for maybe two months? Timo wasn't healthy until March. Nico missed a lot of time.

I think Haula started the season injured or got hurt and carried it almost all year.

McLeod was centering in our top 6 until he had to go away. Then add no Dougie to that.

Injuries greatly impacted our ability to score goals last year and that's not counting the absolute horrid season Mercer had.

Healthy Jack to start the year looked like the best player in the world. Healthy Timo was an absolute force at the end. Let's see all those elements together and healthy.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Also the combo of better D and better goaltending should give our top guys more confidence to push play as they won't be petrified every mistake is going to be a goal against.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah people think about "hard to play against" as hard to play against physically. As in, "I'm getting punished in the corners all day." But you can also be hard to play against mentally, either because you're a little asshole, like Marchand et al, or just because if they lose focus for one second you've blown by them and created an odd-man look.

Jack and Bratt absolutely ARE hard to play against that way, and I think other players would agree with Pesce there.

(And even this ignores the physical aspect of having to keep up with Jack going up and down the ice shift after shift, game after game).

And we got someone like Dillion who is not fun to play against. Noesen is a massive pest. Cotter apparently skates at people like he legit hates them.

 

[Hisch13r]

Yeah people think about "hard to play against" as hard to play against physically. As in, "I'm getting punished in the corners all day." But you can also be hard to play against mentally, either because you're a little asshole, like Marchand et al, or just because if they lose focus for one second you've blown by them and created an odd-man look.

Jack and Bratt absolutely ARE hard to play against that way, and I think other players would agree with Pesce there.

(And even this ignores the physical aspect of having to keep up with Jack going up and down the ice shift after shift, game after game).

I’ve brought this up before, 5’11 183 pound Evan Rodrigues was the Panthers best player in the final. Panthers getting him for just 3 mil is such a good deal

 

[My3Sons]

I mean yeah sure that played a role but I think the role it played is way over exaggerated. It’s not like they looked good at the start of the year. They looked like shit before the injuries piled up and they looked like shit after they got healthy (sans Dougie) at the end of the year.

It's a seemingly mixed bag. They started 5-2-1 in October before going 6-7 in November and then 8-5-1 in December. So that's 19-14-2 if my old man eyes are seeing the numbers correctly. That's a heck of a lot better than the just under 500 they finished so I don't think it's as simple as they were lousy all year with or without injuries. They were on a 97 point pace at the end of December. That would easily have made the playoffs. They weren't great but they were doing ok at that point. I'm sure goaltending caught up with them as well.

 

[Hisch13r]

It's a seemingly mixed bag. They started 5-2-1 in October before going 6-7 in November and then 8-5-1 in December. So that's 19-14-2 if my old man eyes are seeing the numbers correctly. That's a heck of a lot better than the just under 500 they finished so I don't think it's as simple as they were lousy all year with or without injuries. They were on a 97 point pace at the end of December. That would easily have made the playoffs. They weren't great but they were doing ok at that point. I'm sure goaltending caught up with them as well.

It’s not like they played no role but I felt that even when they were winning early on in the year they didn’t look good doing it. Maybe I’m being unfair because I’m comparing it to the year prior where they were winning while completely shitcanning the opposing team for 60 minutes but it just did not feel good this year. Like even during that 8-2 stretch they had I didn’t think they looked good.

 

[JimEIV]

Oh the horror

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Our team isn't small...but our top 6 is tiny. And soft and easy to play against.

 

[glenwo2]

Our team isn't small...but our top 6 is tiny. And soft and easy to play against.

Is Timo small, tiny, soft, and easy to play against?

 

[JimEIV]

In the real world, Jesper Bratt is 15 lbs heavier than he was as a rookie. Nico at least 20 lbs heavier. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

Who's numbers do want me to use...real world Florida isn't any bigger? All the numbers come from the same source... Matthew and Barkov look at lot bigger than their listings too...but that's what they are listed as

Look our top 2 centers and best winger aren't very big or physical at all... I'm not sure why you're acting like I'm insulting your family... it's just the truth. And they need to be supplemented to counteract their deficiencies.

Is Timo small, tiny, soft, and easy to play against?

No. He is the only one in the top 6.... unfortunately there is only one Timo and there are two lines in the top 6.

 

[Saugus]

the Defenseman we just signed said one of the reasons he chose to be here was so he didn't have to play against those 3 guys specifically anymore. Is he lying?

He might be pumping his new teammates' tires a bit, but I don't think he is making stuff up.

I think Jim is splitting hairs again. Being hard to play against doesn't have to mean that everybody on the roster is dummy thicc. Skill forwards can be hard to play against too, by being shifty and creating scoring chances out of nothing.

Is McDavid a banger power forward lighting guys up in the corners? No. Would every single defenseman in the league say he's hard to play against? You bet your ass.

 

[Ripshot 43]

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Who's numbers do want me to use...real world Florida isn't any bigger? All the numbers come from the same source... Matthew and Barkov look at lot bigger than their listings too...but that's what they are listed as

Look our top 2 centers and best winger aren't very big or physical at all... I'm not sure why you're acting like I'm insulting your family... it's just the truth. And they need to be supplemented to counteract their deficiencies.

Last year Jesper Bratt was out there for 70 goals and 54 against on an awful team. Tkachuk was out there for 56 GF and 40 against. I don’t think Jesper needs much help doing anything. Terrific player that doesn’t even make the list of issues with the team. You can safely mark him down for another elite season next year.

“Counteract their deficiencies” lol

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Cannot agree. Yeah you're giving Jack the 2 best wingers but Jack doesn't get the best Timo because Timo is not going to be taking as many shots if he's there. Even if you've got Timo taking all of his shots then Jack isn't taking all of his. Putting the 2 of them together is limiting.

Yeah that's fair, that's the one big downside, you know Timo/Jack don't work from what we've seen. We might some see insanely goofy lines to start from Keefe if he tries the 22-23 Tatar-Nico-Mercer line

 

[JimEIV]

He might be pumping his new teammates' tires a bit, but I don't think he is making stuff up.

I think Jim is splitting hairs again. Being hard to play against doesn't have to mean that everybody on the roster is dummy thicc. Skill forwards can be hard to play against too, by being shifty and creating scoring chances out of nothing.

Is McDavid a banger power forward lighting guys up in the corners? No. Would every single defenseman in the league say he's hard to play against? You bet your ass.

No being shifty is not what anyone means when they say hard to play against.

The Oilers best players showed a brand of physicality in the finals that we can not come close to. Not remotely close and they weren't as good at as Florida...

Hard to play against in my view has a physical element....but it's more than that. It's being able to play the game in any way you need to...

track meet high scoring pond hockey, yeah we can do that... nasty punch you in the face, stick to the ankles, yeah we can do that too...tight defensive game with no mistakes....got it covered.

That's hard to play against.

 

[Hisch13r]

He might be pumping his new teammates' tires a bit, but I don't think he is making stuff up.

I think Jim is splitting hairs again. Being hard to play against doesn't have to mean that everybody on the roster is dummy thicc. Skill forwards can be hard to play against too, by being shifty and creating scoring chances out of nothing.

Is McDavid a banger power forward lighting guys up in the corners? No. Would every single defenseman in the league say he's hard to play against? You bet your ass.

If it was just about pumping tires I imagine Timo’s thrown in there as well. Not including him though definitely makes it seem like he isn’t making it up since he’s played the other 3 so much more with Timo being out west for so long

 

[JimEIV]

Last year Jesper Bratt was out there for 70 goals and 54 against on an awful team. Tkachuk was out there for 56 GF and 40 against. I don’t think Jesper needs much help doing anything. Terrific player that doesn’t even make the list of issues with the team. You can safely mark him down for another elite season next year.

“Counteract their deficiencies” lol

Jesper is the second softest easy to play against after Jack.

 

[Hisch13r]

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View attachment 891951

He does really love fishing lol

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Jesper is the second softest easy to play against after Jack.

Luckily this is a fake thing that doesn’t mean anything.