Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[megajake]

I think the bottom 6 is fine if Tatar has a good year being re-united with Nico.
Palat-Halua-Nosen is a phenomenal 3rd line. Cotter/Lazar are great 4th liners that can move up, the only weak link is bastian/foote, but hey maybe one of them shocks us.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

I’m thinking of the offense as a whole this season which includes Doug, Rusty and Nemec. If the Fab Four do their thing, Dawson is at least 22-23 version of himself but hopefully more, healthy Dougie (16pts in 20 before the injury), maybe Luke as a 20-21yo as a poor man’s Makar and Nemec chipping in and some PP merchant magic again, they’re cooking. Not counting stopping the other team from scoring with better D and Voodoo Keeper Daddies.

Carry them until the TDL where you can get a rental and/or some instant Grits on the stove. Or if late Nov/early Dec rolls around and the O is lacking and some teams are dropping off, you pounce then. Otherwise, I’m good for now.

Still have some teams that are cap strapped so don’t discount machinations before TC either.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I kinda feel like our forward group doesn’t look that special anymore. Any combo of those bottom six lines PLUS still having to rely on Tatar or Palat to produce in the top-6 role feels like folly.

A lot of my old optimism relied on some mystery box thinking with Holtz and Mercer (and Sharangovich to a lesser extent), but without either of them potentially adding some higher-end offense on the edges of the lineup, we’re starting to look a little Leaf-y.

Anymore compared to what though, the 22/23 team? Technically now that Tatar is back we still have the top 7 scorers from that team. Of course you have to bank a bit on Dawson bouncing back. But we also have Meier as a big addition.

I feel like there's a decent possibility Cotter and Noesen can produce similarly to Wood and Sharangovich. Lazar had almost the exact same amount of points as McLeod did that year too.

I think it's less 'impressive' in terms of potential, like you said with guys being a mystery box. You had guys like Sharangovich and Zetterlund making a splash and you could see how they may continue to grow as part of this team. You lose that a bit in veterans like Lazar and Noesen but for a team hoping to compete now having a veteran presence may be more ideal.

 

[Brodeur]

Okay hear me out,

Ducks are struggling to reach the cap floor. What if the Devils sent Palat, a B-tier prospect and 2 2nds for Vatrano 50% retained? 37 goals last season, hit everything that moved. Do the Ducks ask for more?

Tatar-Hischier-Meier
Bratt-Hughes-Vatrano
Mercer-Haula-Noesen

That's a top-6 I'm ready to f*** around with, plus it gets us out of the Palat contract before his NMC kicks in.

I think the Ducks were asking for a lot more on Vatrano at the deadline without taking on a relatively big contract like Palat's.

CapFriendly has the Ducks as 2.7 mil under the cap floor after picking up Brian Dumoulin yesterday. They have Jackson LaCombe (RFA) and another forward (or two) to sign. They don't have to do anything too crazy, although I could see them picking up a placeholder RHD so one of the youngsters can get more AHL time.

Gauthier-McTavish-Terry
Vatrano-Zegras-Strome
Lundestrom-Carlsson-Colangelo?
McGinn-tbd-Leason
Johnston-Harkins

Fowler-Gudas
Mintyukov-LaCombe
Dumoulin-(Luneau/Zellweger?)
Vaakaninen

Gibson-Dostal

 

[megajake]

Palat, albiet overpaid by 1 million or so, is still a very good player. I have no interest of trading him away until he falls off.

 

[JimEIV]

Just in case someone hasn't seen the Press Conference...first 4:11 minutes are nothing but music and a Devils graphic so you can fast forward.

https://www.youtube.com/live/k1dT8m0gNWE?si=ZaqlX_IpLSyRt-aE

 

[dgibb10]

Anymore compared to what though, the 22/23 team? Technically now that Tatar is back we still have the top 7 scorers from that team. Of course you have to bank a bit on Dawson bouncing back. But we also have Meier as a big addition.

I feel like there's a decent possibility Cotter and Noesen can produce similarly to Wood and Sharangovich. Lazar had almost the exact same amount of points as McLeod did that year too.

I think it's less 'impressive' in terms of potential, like you said with guys being a mystery box. You had guys like Sharangovich and Zetterlund making a splash and you could see how they may continue to grow as part of this team. You lose that a bit in veterans like Lazar and Noesen but for a team hoping to compete now having a veteran presence may be more ideal.

From the 22-23 team we have lost:

Severson, Graves --> Dillon, Pesce (lateral/upgrade)
Bahl, Marino --> Luke, Nemec (upgrade imo, and not even close when they develop)
Vitek,Schmid --> Markstrom, Allen (lateral move from what they played like in 22-23)
Yegor, Wood --> Noesen, Cotter (I'd say upgrade from what they were in 22-23)

The only real loss from that 22-23 team is Michael McLeod, who we have not been able to replace. An excellent 3/4C is a big need rn. And I'm not sure it's coming along in the prospect pool. I would ironically be all over Ryan McLeod as a replacement. Also a guy like Krebs, or in the shorter term a Sturm/Evans/Kampf.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Cheddabombs]

Just in case someone hasn't seen the Press Conference...first 4:11 minutes are nothing but music and a Devils graphic so you can fast forward.

https://www.youtube.com/live/k1dT8m0gNWE?si=ZaqlX_IpLSyRt-aE

A bit bold of you to assume I don't want to watch 4:11 of a Devils graphic and music

 

[JK3]

Our defense is stacked right now, we have competent goaltending plus a new coach that can hopefully instill a bit more of a responsible game on the back end. The days of speedsters everywhere and winning 5-4 games are over thank goodness. We’ll still be plenty fast but a bit heavier and nastier as well with some of these additions.

How many teams have amazing players at every position in the top six? We have four of some of the best top six players around. Mercer, Tatar, Palat, Noesen are capable of rounding out the rest. I think Haula will be at 3C for the most part.

I don’t understand what else people want or how the hell you get there, it’s just how it is in the cap era. We should be able to ice a really solid top nine and fill out the fourth with some beef and whatever.

 

[megajake]

I think Cotter has some untapped potential left in him as well. Would really like Fitz to sign him longterm. I do believe he can be our david clarkson

 

[JimEIV]

Our defense is stacked right now, we have competent goaltending plus a new coach that can hopefully instill a bit more of a responsible game on the back end. The days of speedsters everywhere and winning 5-4 games are over thank goodness. We’ll be nastier to play against as well with some of these additions.

How many teams have amazing players at every position in the top six? We have four of some of the best top six players around. Mercer, Tatar, Palat, Noesen are capable of rounding out the rest. I think Haula will be at 3C for the most part.

I don’t understand what else people want or how the hell you get there, it’s just how it is in the cap era. We should be able to ice a really solid top nine and fill out the fourth with some beef and whatever.

This won't be a popular opinion here but I think they missed the opportunity to add a little bit of size and grit to the top 6. That seems to be the biggest hole from my point of view.

I think our soft easy to play against nature stems from the top 6 and I don't think anything has been done to change that.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Our defense is stacked right now, we have competent goaltending plus a new coach that can hopefully instill a bit more of a responsible game on the back end. The days of speedsters everywhere and winning 5-4 games are over thank goodness. We’ll be nastier to play against as well with some of these additions.

How many teams have amazing players at every position in the top six? We have four of some of the best top six players around. Mercer, Tatar, Palat, Noesen are capable of rounding out the rest. I think Haula will be at 3C for the most part.

I don’t understand what else people want or how the hell you get there, it’s just how it is in the cap era. We should be able to ice a really solid top nine and fill out the fourth with some beef and whatever.

I feel like if you legit look around the league, it's probably pretty common that teams have some role player/plug and play guys next to their top talent. I don't think having 6 superstars in your top 6 is common and if someone has it, they are probably lacking in other areas.

It's just the nature of a cap league.

We still got a lot of offensive talent, but we also now have the ability to really keep pucks out of our net. Plus you hope some of the size will help open things up even more for our skill guys

 

[JK3]

This won't be a popular opinion here but I think they missed the opportunity to add a little bit of size and grit to the top 6. Or least that seems to be the biggest hole from my point of view.

I think our soft easy to play against nature stems from the top 6 and I don't anything has been done to change that.

Meier is not soft at all, he’s a beast. Neither is Palat if he plays there. Maybe Noesen can carve out a spot at RW up there.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Our defense is stacked right now, we have competent goaltending plus a new coach that can hopefully instill a bit more of a responsible game on the back end. The days of speedsters everywhere and winning 5-4 games are over thank goodness. We’ll still be plenty fast but a bit heavier and nastier as well with some of these additions.

How many teams have amazing players at every position in the top six? We have four of some of the best top six players around. Mercer, Tatar, Palat, Noesen are capable of rounding out the rest. I think Haula will be at 3C for the most part.

I don’t understand what else people want or how the hell you get there, it’s just how it is in the cap era. We should be able to ice a really solid top nine and fill out the fourth with some beef and whatever.

All true plus a wing can be addressed at the deadline if need be. Toffoli, who led our team in goals, was had for a couple of non-1st round picks.

 

[JimEIV]

Meier is not soft at all, he’s a beast. Neither is Palat if he plays there. Maybe Noesen can carve out a spot at RW up there.

Meier...There's one...of 6

Palat is one of those "vanilla bottom 6 players" Fitz referenced in his press conference...and he really shouldn't be anywhere near the top 6...a guy that hasn't scored 20 goals since Obama was president has no business business being near our best players.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

We realistically have 4 first liners and then 6 guys who are just above or just below being 3rd liners.

If Mercer can break out into being a good top 6 forward that does a lot.

Meier...There's one...of 6

Palat is one of those "vanilla bottom 6 players" Fitz referenced in his press conference...and he really shouldn't be anywhere near the top 6...a guy that hasn't scored 20 goals since Obama was president has no business business being near our best players.

I can guarentee Palat is not who Fitz was talking about when he said that. Palat spent a ton of time playing with Tampa’s top players, Fitz said he’s hoping for more offense from him, and if he’s anything he’s a hardnosed and responsible player.

I’m not all that high on Palat or his contract but calling him a vanilla bottom 6 player is laughable.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Ya that’s probably around what Mercer would get for 6 years. Slightly higher maybe if it’s 8.
Gonna be less than that for 2 or 3 years I’m guessing.

Good thing though is if Fitz did decide to give Mercer the Lundell contract, $5m x 6 years, we can still fit him in.

Current cap space is $4,976,103 per Puckpedia but that includes 8 defenseman and 12 forwards on roster.
Send DeSimone to minors increases cap space to $5,751,103, so enough to fit in Mercer's new $5m salary.

However with $751,103 left, we can't carry an additional forward as a 2nd scratch like Nolan Foote as his qualifying offer is $875,000 per year.

If we can convince Mercer to take slightly less than Lundell, say $4.8m for 6 years, it will open up enough cap space to carry a 14th forward.

The other alternative is if Mercer new contract stays at $5m and we bury Bastian in the minors (if we can't trade him) and effectively replace him with Foote moving into the lineup, and call up one of Beckman (assuming he signs QO) or Willman to be team 14th forward, with MacDermid 13th forward, that is also another scenario that can work for the team, cap wise.

 

[JimEIV]

We realistically have 4 first liners and then 6 guys who are just above or just below being 3rd liners.

If Mercer can break out into being a good top 6 forward that does a lot.


I can guarentee Palat is not who Fitz was talking about when he said that. Palat spent a ton of time playing with Tampa’s top players, Fitz said he’s hoping for more offense from him, and if he’s anything he’s a hardnosed and responsible player.

I’m not all that high on Palat or his contract but calling him a vanilla bottom 6 player is laughable.

Palat is done.

 

[Bleedred]

Meier...There's one...

Palat is one of those "vanilla bottom 6 players" Fitz referenced in his press conference...and he really shouldn't be anywhere near the top 6...a guy that hasn't scored 20 goals since Obama was president has no business business being near our best players.

I actually had to look that up to see if his last 20 goal season came under Obama. Not only has it been since Obama was president, it's been since the second year of Obama's second term.

I didn't realize he only got 20 goals once, and it was in his rookie season/first full season in the league when he scored 23. Kind of like how Scott Gomez's career high in goals was his rookie season, outside of the inflated power play year right after the lockout where he scored 33. I think those were his only 20 or more goal seasons in the NHL.

Judging by Fitz naming him and saying we need more goals from him, I'm thinking he's well aware that Palat needs to be better.

I still maintain this may be Palat's last year as a Devil. I think they'll dump him on somebody after this year, barring a really huge year from him. And a really huge year from him if it happens is something that can't be expected to be repeated for 25-26.

 

[ndkjr70]

Still won't understand the obsession some have with ditching Palat.

I like you, and I like advanced stats, and I like fancy schmancy charts. But I cannot believe that there are people who think that Palat is anything other than an ugly contract taking the place of what could've been a true top-6 winger or 3rd line center to round out the roster.

He has 19 goals and 35 assists since being signed by the Devils. For $6m, that's a pretty solid if not underwhelming season. But that's what he's produced in his first two seasons in NJ.

Why there is this expectation that an injury prone player is going to provide positive value on his contract for his age 33, 34, and 35 seasons is legitimately baffling to me. There is not a chart on this planet that can convince me otherwise.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Palat is done.

Done what? A statement doesn’t get much more vague.

 

[JrFischer54]

I think we were lucky enough to draft better player this year for needs like we did in 2022.
Im not against Helenius but I wanted to see this pick as a pick of believe in higher ceiling, not a pick of the need in third line center. Of course we are away from that discussion.

if those were the two choices then they definitely picked the right choice. not even sure how its a question to draft a 6'7 good skating d man that should be a no brainer and a half

The difference is that the Devils backend has two star offensive D and consists of 3 solid pairs. If they can trade Hamilton next offseason, they can maybe use that money to upgrade the offense.

highly doubt they trade hamilton next year even if luke and nemec take big steps this year. you still need a guy like hamilton back there.

 

[ndkjr70]

feels worth mentioning that Dougie is only 30. only a year older than Pesce, who we just committed to for 6 seasons. I don't think the Devils will be in a rush to move Hamilton, nor do I think they'll need to be. Guy is an elite hockey player.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Meier...There's one...of 6

Palat is one of those "vanilla bottom 6 players" Fitz referenced in his press conference...and he really shouldn't be anywhere near the top 6...a guy that hasn't scored 20 goals since Obama was president has no business business being near our best players.

Nah. Palat can be just fine on Nico’s line. Excellent defensive player. Evan Rodrigues was a “top 6” player with Florida and played an unsexy supportive role and only had 12 goals 39 points. You need lines that fit together, not sure why you’re so fixated on individual production. Just score more than the other team.