Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part III

[Zippy316]

I'd be ok with Johnsson if there's no material salary cap implication.

My understanding, though, is that the Devils are at / over the cap and would benefit from shedding salary.

Waiving Johnsson seems like the wisest course (assuming Johnsson can't be traded).

I think the Devils were anticipating dumping Johnsson somewhere. But cap room is so tight and teams were gaining assets out of it, it makes no sense to get rid of an asset for Johnsson.

If they send him down, it frees up 1.125 million in space. His salary is only 800k after his bonus, so I don’t think the Devils would be against sending him down if a kid proves their worth. If not, he’s a viable extra forward.

It looks like Bernier is also not going to be ready. Devils look to be in a good position to maximize cap space by placing Bernier on LTIR. Cap room shouldn’t be an issue, it’s moreso roster space that will be.

 

[Guttersniped]

Veteran depth is fine but NJ isn’t there yet in my view. They still have to establish the core and see who they have in multiple roles. One year mediocre vets don’t seem necessary to me to a young team turning the corner . Once you run out of cap and Have no young players who can make the jump to the NHL then sure Vesey makes sense. Maybe in a few years. Right now I’d rather have Bahl or Okhotyuk on the third pair and Zetterlund on the fourth line. Once NJ has a couple of good season and has to spin off the secondary players who are up for significant raises I’ll be all for cup chasing has beens.

I said it before, but we needed veteran players specifically for the PK after the guys we lost and the abomination we witnessed in 2020-21. PK is a learned skill, Ruff wasn’t going into the season hoping new guys figured it out while Shara immediately PKed (not well) a ton again.

Vesey had turned himself into a good PKer before last season. That was partly what the Gauthier and Jankowski PTOs were about too, though those also addressed our terrible organizational center depth as well. We signed Gauthier.

Gauthier PKed a shit ton in the 8 games he played early on. Vesey basically tied McLeod for the lead in 4on5 TOI/GP among forwards, after Gauthier. Gauthier then helped out with center depth in Utica.

I don’t see anything bad with this. Before our goalies died we were planning on being competitive, improving our PK was pretty important.

Seeing Hickey as a problem is assuming no defensemen get hurt and that’s a weird assumption to make going by history.

I don’t think Zetterlund should have been on the team last season, he likely got more out of his breakout season in Utica.

I sincerely doubt there’s a poster here more bummed to lose Studenic in order to keep Geertsen than me. I don’t see Studenic as a comparable to Zetterlund though, I would compare him more to Wood.

He’s a similar style player and his production was notable in his short stint in the NHL last season. The team overspent to keep a Wood for 1 year, I doubt they give him away. He has a lot of the qualities Fitz slobbers over and he can score.

I assume they thought Studenic’s lack of scoring would get him through waivers but it’s not surprising another team valued his his good defensive metrics, strong forechecking, dirt cheap contract and PK ability. *sob*

I guess we’ll have to disagree on this. To me, if you don’t add veteran depth then you can burn quickly through your prospects and then have no depth. They also might not be up to the job at the moment. And if that job is sitting in the press box I don’t want them to have it.

 

[My3Sons]

I said it before, but we needed veteran players specifically for the PK after the guys we lost and the abomination we witnessed in 2020-21. PK is a learned skill, Ruff wasn’t going into the season hoping new guys figured it out while Shara immediately PKed (not well) a ton again.

Vesey had turned himself into a good PKer before last season. That was partly what the Gauthier and Jankowski PTOs were about too, though those also addressed our terrible organizational center depth as well. We signed Gauthier.

Gauthier PKed a shit ton in the 8 games he played early on. Vesey basically tied McLeod for the lead in 4on5 TOI/GP among forwards, after Gauthier. Gauthier then helped out with center depth in Utica.

I don’t see anything bad with this. Before our goalies died we were planning on being competitive, improving our PK was pretty important.

Seeing Hickey as a problem is assuming no defensemen get hurt and that’s a weird assumption to make going by history.

I don’t think Zetterlund should have been on the team last season, he likely got more out of his breakout season in Utica.

I sincerely doubt there’s a poster here more bummed to lose Studenic in order to keep Geertsen than me. I don’t see Studenic as a comparable to Zetterlund though, I would compare him more to Wood.

He’s a similar style player and his production was notable in his short stint in the NHL last season. The team overspent to keep a Wood for 1 year, I doubt they give him away. He has a lot of the qualities Fitz slobbers over and he can score.

I assume they thought Studenic’s lack of scoring would get him through waivers but it’s not surprising another team valued his his good defensive metrics, strong forechecking, dirt cheap contract and PK ability. *sob*

I guess we’ll have to disagree on this. To me, if you don’t add veteran depth then you can burn quickly through your prospects and then have no depth. They also might not be up to the job at the moment. And if that job is sitting in the press box I don’t want them to have it.

I'm tired of veteran depth that stinks. If a guy is bad and can only PK that's not good enough to me. The problem to me is that NJ still needs sheltered minutes for young players and those sheltered minutes shouldn't be going to guys who are borderline NHL players as I see it. Veteran depth is a broad term. It can mean anything from Palat to a guy like Richard Panik who the NYI had play in the AHL. Again, I'm not against veteran depth, but I think a PTO is likely a guy who isn't really going to move the needle and will just block or take developmental minutes away from a young player. NJ has Graves Siegenthaler Smith Hamilton Severson and Marino on defense. I'd just as soon have Okhotyuk or Bahl play if one of those guys get injured. If Bahl or Okhotyuk outplays Smith then Smith can sit. He's barely making above NHL minimum and to me occupies the same role as Hickey would. As for the PK work up front, McLeod and Hischier have both done that and I think at least at an ok level? Hopefully Haula can pitch in and maybe Palat can do some of that? I don't think we are disagreeing so much as seeing the team in a different state of development.

 

[glenwo2]

Our goal tending situation had been dog crap for years before Rogalski came aboard.

Now Blackwood specifically has gone south since Rogalski came aboard but the board consensus is covid and injuries are predominantly to blame.

Can we blame him for Bernier’s injury? Or Crawford retiring?

No but I blame him for being hired and Melanson fired when he wasn't the problem (like Bleed pointed out).

 

[Guttersniped]

I'm tired of veteran depth that stinks. If a guy is bad and can only PK that's not good enough to me. The problem to me is that NJ still needs sheltered minutes for young players and those sheltered minutes shouldn't be going to guys who are borderline NHL players as I see it. Veteran depth is a broad term. It can mean anything from Palat to a guy like Richard Panik who the NYI had play in the AHL. Again, I'm not against veteran depth, but I think a PTO is likely a guy who isn't really going to move the needle and will just block or take developmental minutes away from a young player. NJ has Graves Siegenthaler Smith Hamilton Severson and Marino on defense. I'd just as soon have Okhotyuk or Bahl play if one of those guys get injured. If Bahl or Okhotyuk outplays Smith then Smith can sit. He's barely making above NHL minimum and to me occupies the same role as Hickey would. As for the PK work up front, McLeod and Hischier have both done that and I think at least at an ok level? Hopefully Haula can pitch in and maybe Palat can do some of that? I don't think we are disagreeing so much as seeing the team in a different state of development.

You need more than two PK forwards and Hischier’s results were up and down. Nico never PKed that much before.

If you’re trying to make an argument for not needing Vesey for the PK, sorry, we didn’t have an internal solutions for PK. You need experienced guys and injuries happen. He also made it way better, so there’s that.

And it would have been shitty to Ruff to not give him help there. I wanted Fitz to address this at the start of free agency, the same with centers, and I wasn’t the only one. (I don’t think we need to re-hash previous off-seasons, but there you go.)

A ton of teams use PTOs, from Cup winners to rebuilding squads.

Vesey didn’t stink. Vesey was an excellent PKer and he was an ok bottom six forward. He was good defensively even strength, and on this team that’s not easy.

He was cartoonishly snake bit, the guy couldn’t finish a sandwich. That did make him annoying.

You’re flailing a bit with your examples. NYI got Panik literally as a cap dump from Detroit in the Nick Leddy trade. We’re paying Palet 6m.

Veteran depth players are traditionally understood as bottom six forwards and bottom pairing defenseman, who often are defensive specialists who help with special teams.

When you pay players you mostly pay for offense, with ice time also as a consideration. So veteran depth is cheap. Cup contenders traditionally attract the best veteran depth at bargain rates. It’s not complicated.

I like having kids make the team too but they have to earn it. I also would never give the extra forward or defensemen spot to a prospect. I know there’s a common complaint/narrative of young players not getting chances but that hasn’t been a problem in NJ since forever.

EDIT: Just a reminder, I love defensive forwards lol.

 

[Bleedred]

I actually didn't mind Vesey and thought he was a good PTO add from the moment that was announced. I think he was the last real PTO I got excited about since Lee Stempniak in 2015.

Hickey is in all likelihood just for Utica (until injuries happen) and that's fine. He played only 2 games in the NHL last year, 5 games in the NHL in 2020-2021 (he didn't play any AHL games that year, whereas he played 15 games in the AHL last year. and because he had no AHL games that year, I'm assuming he was a taxi squad regular in 2020-2021) and 0 games in the NHL in 19-20. I didn't realize he's only played 5 NHL games in the last 3 years, I figured it was a little more than that, but it's not.

I do wonder if Hickey is better than Colton White at the NHL level in 2022? If he is then it's probably not by much, but holy f*** did Colton White suck in the NHL.

I'd like to say we have enough intriguing depth in Utica that we don't need to be calling up guys like Hickey and White (who signed somewhere else this offseason and is no longer in the organization) as much anymore.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Aren't the rooks supposed to report today? We're almost there folks

 

[Mgd31]

Centers?

 

[Zippy316]

New number for Walsh is interesting.

Any invites on the list? I know there’s quite a bit of AHL deals this year so some players there are headed for Utica. Not sure if there’s any extra invites after those names.

 

[My3Sons]

You need more than two PK forwards and Hischier’s results were up and down. Nico never PKed that much before.

If you’re trying to make an argument for not needing Vesey for the PK, sorry, we didn’t have an internal solutions for PK. You need experienced guys and injuries happen. He also made it way better, so there’s that.

And it would have been shitty to Ruff to not give him help there. I wanted Fitz to address this at the start of free agency, the same with centers, and I wasn’t the only one. (I don’t think we need to re-hash previous off-seasons, but there you go.)

A ton of teams use PTOs, from Cup winners to rebuilding squads.

Vesey didn’t stink. Vesey was an excellent PKer and he was an ok bottom six forward. He was good defensively even strength, and on this team that’s not easy.

He was cartoonishly snake bit, the guy couldn’t finish a sandwich. That did make him annoying.

You’re flailing a bit with your examples. NYI got Panik literally as a cap dump from Detroit in the Nick Leddy trade. We’re paying Palet 6m.

Veteran depth players are traditionally understood as bottom six forwards and bottom pairing defenseman, who often are defensive specialists who help with special teams.

When you pay players you mostly pay for offense, with ice time also as a consideration. So veteran depth is cheap. Cup contenders traditionally attract the best veteran depth at bargain rates. It’s not complicated.

I like having kids make the team too but they have to earn it. I also would never give the extra forward or defensemen spot to a prospect. I know there’s a common complaint/narrative of young players not getting chances but that hasn’t been a problem in NJ since forever.

EDIT: Just a reminder, I love defensive forwards lol.

Meh. I'm too lazy to get good examples to support my point but to deny they are there is probably also reaching. How about this, if the current veteran depth isn't good enough - Tatar, Johnsson, Palat, Hamilton, Graves, Severson, Siegenthaler, Marino, Haula, Wood, and Smith, then a fringe forward who can only PK isn't going to move the needle enough to matter. I'm not against Vesey specifically but who do you take out of the lineup? The team already has too many forwards. Saying someone will get hurt is obvious but isn't that when you give Holtz or Thompson a couple of weeks? I agree a veteran should sit in the press box over a young player, but can't Tatar and/or Johnsson do that? Worst case scenario I'd rather Zetterlund sit in the press box instead of losing him on waivers. On defense if they want an extra vet to sit that's ok if none of the kids can play but I think Smith was signed hoping he'd be the guy to sit. There is also the issue that at this point they will have to LTIR Bernier to make cap space most likely. As you've pointed out that has negative consequences so how do you make any roster moves, not lose Zetterlund, and stay cap compliant? I'm seriously asking since I don't see how they do that right now without using LTIR.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Centers?

Hell yeah Billy Jerry, what a name. Sounds like a default character

 

[FinnishDevil]

Wait when is the rookie camp starting? Vilen is listed but he just finished up a Liiga match less than an hour ago.

 

[My3Sons]

Hell yeah Billy Jerry, what a name. Sounds like a default character

It's a typo, it's actually Little Jerry. He's being handled by Cosmo Kramer from Kramerica Industries. A plucky undersized entry but he has a lot of fight in him.

 

[Saugus]

Hell yeah Billy Jerry, what a name. Sounds like a default character

Or one of the dopier Jerrys from the Rick and Morty multiverse.

 

[devilsblood]

You need more than two PK forwards and Hischier’s results were up and down. Nico never PKed that much before.

If you’re trying to make an argument for not needing Vesey for the PK, sorry, we didn’t have an internal solutions for PK. You need experienced guys and injuries happen. He also made it way better, so there’s that.

And it would have been shitty to Ruff to not give him help there. I wanted Fitz to address this at the start of free agency, the same with centers, and I wasn’t the only one. (I don’t think we need to re-hash previous off-seasons, but there you go.)

A ton of teams use PTOs, from Cup winners to rebuilding squads.

Vesey didn’t stink. Vesey was an excellent PKer and he was an ok bottom six forward. He was good defensively even strength, and on this team that’s not easy.

He was cartoonishly snake bit, the guy couldn’t finish a sandwich. That did make him annoying.

You’re flailing a bit with your examples. NYI got Panik literally as a cap dump from Detroit in the Nick Leddy trade. We’re paying Palet 6m.

Veteran depth players are traditionally understood as bottom six forwards and bottom pairing defenseman, who often are defensive specialists who help with special teams.

When you pay players you mostly pay for offense, with ice time also as a consideration. So veteran depth is cheap. Cup contenders traditionally attract the best veteran depth at bargain rates. It’s not complicated.

I like having kids make the team too but they have to earn it. I also would never give the extra forward or defensemen spot to a prospect. I know there’s a common complaint/narrative of young players not getting chances but that hasn’t been a problem in NJ since forever.

EDIT: Just a reminder, I love defensive forwards lol.

Yup Vesey was excellent on the pk. Much better then the team as a whole. I thought he and McLeod were a good pair and McLeod did not hold up as well without Vesey.

I liked his defense 5v5 as well but snake bitten or whatever a little bit of offensive production is needed.

 

[OmNomNom]

Walsh is just replacing Butcher - undersized #8 dman who can't defend

 

[MartyOwns]

It's a typo, it's actually Little Jerry. He's being handled by Cosmo Kramer from Kramerica Industries. A plucky undersized entry but he has a lot of fight in him.

me showing up at the home opener:

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

@Guttersniped when she thinks about Studenic and what could’ve been good times.

 

[Tusks Up]

So if Bratt isnt willing to go long-term, do we still give him 8m a year at 4-5 years?

Seems kinda f***ed to give him the same dollar amount with three or four less years than Jack, Stuetzle, Thomas, Thompson, Kyrou, etc...

Especially when you consider the fact that we gave Bratt a chance at 19 when he was a sixth round pick; coulda been any other team that just buried him after a good camp. Figure thatd usually buy you some loyalty

 

[Omar Little]

Centers?

No Zetterlund or Thompson

 

[Billdo]

Can we just give someone number 9 so I can have my Hall jersey covered up.

 

[tailfins]

Looks like we fixed our 2015 draft mistake. Shipped out Zacha and picked up Senyshyn.

 

[MasterofGrond]

ITS TALVITE’S TIME

 

[OmNomNom]

Looks like we fixed our 2015 draft mistake. Shipped out Zacha and picked up Senyshyn.

(Zacha)ry Senyshyn

 

[MartyOwns]

so i guess the pto requirements are:

- warm body