Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - camp edition

[JimEIV]

Been here 7 times. I went for IndyCar and Keane at the Ryman.

Nash has gotten very Vegas Country the last few years but definitely look up the old school vibes bars, those are the best. Nudie’s is my fav and no its not a strip joint lmao

Thanks. I'm probably going to see the Devils but I didn't get tickets yet. I'll be there for 3 days and I'm mostly interested in eating and drinking.

 

[Devs3cups]

Pretty random, but cool to see Bratt in the top 10 left wingers in NHL 25!

 

[Guadana]

It's not too unusual to see teams fire a GM after a season and then hire somebody new right before the draft. Typically the new GM will defer to the incumbent scouts if they hadn't been that involved on the amateur side leading up to it.

LA hired Dean Lombardi a month before the 2006 Draft. He let LA's scouts take Jonathan Bernier and Trevor Lewis in the first round. But allegedly Lombardi intervened in the second round when the scouts wanted to take Milan Lucic with pick #48 (he'd then go #50 to Boston). Lombardi inherited a Kings prospect pool with no defense, so he insisted that the scouts take a defenseman (LA would take Joe Ryan who didn't pan out). A few months after that draft, Lombardi canned the scouts and hired new ones.

Similarly, Tampa Bay convinced Steve Yzerman to take the job right before the 2010 Draft. As I understand it, the Brett Connolly pick was more the scouts than Yzerman. Like Lombardi, Yzerman fired the Tampa scouts after that draft and hired his own including head scout Al Murray who was part of Lombardi's purge in LA.

Shero did try to trade down a couple spots from #6 but Columbus refused the bait. The Lombardi/Lucic story also reminded me of Shero at the 2016 Draft getting a little antsy that our scouts hadn't drafted a D. We only drafted one D in 2015 and then used our first six picks in 2016 on five forwards and a goalie. They'd take Yegor Rykov with our next pick.

All of this doesnt change the fact that Shero was hired enough before the draft to track and make decision on the draft. What is clearly coming from how the draft was coming overall.

 

[Bleedred]

I remember I was shocked when he signed that 1 year 1 mil deal at the time

We all were.

He was a target I had interest in I think it was the 2019 offseason. I said the Sharks wouldn't be able to keep him, and it looked like they wouldn't. Because it couldn't have been on anyone's mind that he was gonna sign a $1 million dollar deal for just one year, to buy them a year of cap savings on him. I already had him going out of town to somewhere and I hoped it was gonna be to us.

His second and third season in the NHL were similar production to Mercer's second and third seasons. Mercer's first season was better and of course he played 82 games his rookie season to Labanc's 55.

Mercer's second season and Labanc's third season had identical point totals and both were 82 game seasons. Mercer scored 10 more goals than Labanc did.

The reason I'm even bringing Mercer into this is because Labanc getting $1 million that year for one year is probably like asking Mercer to take $2 million (or maybe $2.5 million) for one year right now. Between cap inflation and the fact that Mercer's first year was more impressive than Labanc's, and Mercer also has managed to play 82 games every year.

Labanc seemed to just not be able to keep it up, and he completely fell out of favor under David Quinn.

 

[JimEIV]

We all were.

He was a target I had interest in I think it was the 2019 offseason. I said the Sharks wouldn't be able to keep him, and it looked like they wouldn't. Because it couldn't have been on anyone's mind that he was gonna sign a $1 million dollar deal for just one year, to buy them a year of cap savings on him. I already had him going out of town to somewhere and I hoped it was gonna be to us.

His second and third season in the NHL were similar production to Mercer's second and third seasons. Mercer's first season was better and of course he played 82 games his rookie season to Labanc's 55.

Mercer's second season and Labanc's third season had identical point totals and both were 82 game seasons. Mercer scored 10 more goals than Labanc did.

The reason I'm even bringing Mercer into this is because Labanc getting $1 million that year for one year is probably like asking Mercer to take $2 million (or maybe $2.5 million) for one year right now. Between cap inflation and the fact that Mercer's first year was more impressive than Labanc's, and Mercer also has managed to play 82 games every year.

Labanc seemed to just not be able to keep it up, and he completely fell out of favor under David Quinn.

Lebanc was nearly 21 before he started his NHL career...he was 20 and 332 days.

In 5 years Lebanc had 62 goals.... Mercer has 64 after 3 years and a rough year...

These players in no way shape or form should be treated similarly from a contract perspective

 

[Bleedred]

Lebanc was nearly 21 before he started his NHL career...he was 20 and 332 days.

In 5 years Lebanc had 62 goals.... Mercer has 64 after 3 years and a rough year...

These players in no way shape or should be treated similarly from a contract perspective

Mercer was definitely better than Labanc after 3 years in the league.

Which is why I'm saying him taking $1 million for one year is like Mercer taking $2 million for one year right now.

But maybe more like $2.5 million with cap inflation, and the fact that Mercer has had the better first 3 years. And Mercer is also going to get more just for never missing a game.

 

[JimEIV]

Mercer was definitely better than Labanc after 3 years in the league.

Which is why I'm saying him taking $1 million for one year is like Mercer taking $2 million for one year right now.

But maybe more like $2.5 million with cap inflation, and the fact that Mercer has had the better first 3 years. And Mercer is also going to get more just for never missing a game.

The comparison is out of line. It would be like doing Jack's first couple of years numbers to Blandisi's.

Which I think I did at one point purely for entertainment purposes.

 

[Brodeur]

All of this doesnt change the fact that Shero was hired enough before the draft to track and make decision on the draft. What is clearly coming from how the draft was coming overall.

It can be tough though. Lombardi was doing pro scouting for the Flyers before being hired by the Kings, so by his own admission he knew next to nothing about the 2006 draft class. Not sure if Shero was with an NHL team in 2014-15, so I don't know if he was really tracking prospects at that point.

Steve Yzerman probably had some exposure to the amateur side since he was with the Red Wings in 2009-10, but he was also Team Canada GM for the Olympics so that was probably his primary focus that season which was possibly why he didn't overrule Tampa's scouts on Brett Connolly. That might have been a lesson learned for Yzerman in 2019 when he seemingly had one foot out the door in Tampa. Sounded like he used his time to scout guys who would be going in the top 10 (Detroit's pick) even though he was working for Tampa wasn't picking until the end of the round.

Shero was hired on May 4, 2015. Zacha's last games that season were at the U18s with his last game being April 23rd. Not sure if Shero would have flown to Switzerland on his own dime to take in the tournament.

 

[TrufleShufle]

The comparison is out of line. It would be like doing Jack's first couple of years numbers to Blandisi's.

Which I think I did at one point purely for entertainment purposes.

I think you are missing what he is saying because of the need to point out how different the players are. I think he did a good job explaining who is better and why, but how their situations can be compared. But mostly how crazy it was for him to take a 1 mil contract when he did.

 

[JimEIV]

I think you are missing what he is saying because of the need to point out how different the players are. I think he did a good job explaining who is better and why, but how their situations can be compared. But mostly how crazy it was for him to take a 1 mil contract when he did.

The situations can't be compared between two vastly different players with two vastly different trajectories.

Beyond two organizations being cap strapped which is usually about a 1/3 of the league at any given time, there are zero similarities.

 

[TrufleShufle]

The situations can't be compared between two vastly different players with two vastly different trajectories.

Beyond two organizations being cap strapped which is usually about a 1/3 of the league at any given time, there are zero similarities.

Ok you are still doing it. Pretty sure it was a simple "That contract was so crazy at the time it would be like this other crazy thing happening that hasn't happened."

But I've chimed in enough on this I think.

 

[Bleedred]

The comparison is out of line. It would be like doing Jack's first couple of years numbers to Blandisi's.

Which I think I did at one point purely for entertainment purposes.

I don't think the difference between Mercer and Labanc's first 3 years is as drastic as Jack Hughes and Blandisi.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

McLeod was a bad pick and (for the vast majority of his tenure) a bad player.

Not even close to being as bad as Stillman

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think the difference between Mercer and Labanc's first 3 years is as drastic as Jack Hughes and Blandisi.

Blandisi was better through the first 70 games of their careers.

If you don't pay attention to any other circumstances like fact that there was a 4 year difference...or anything else....

You can say Blandisi had 26 points in his first 68 games and Jack had 28 through his first 68 games and be telling the truth.

See Similar...

 

[Bleedred]

Blandisi was better through the first 70 games of their careers.

If you don't pay attention to any other circumstances like fact that there was a 4 year difference...or anything else....

You can say Blandisi had 26 points in his first 68 games and Jack had 28 through his first 68 games and be telling the truth.

See Similar...

Look, I never said Labanc was better than Mercer, he wasn't. And at this point it's not even close.

I'm just saying that him taking only $1 million for one year at that point would be like Mercer having to take something in the $2's for one year right now. Still twice as much as what Labanc took that year. The cap has went up about 15% or something? Or only 10%? It was flat for much of the years in between. My estimation on the cap increase was a complete shot in the dark there.

Labanc was a pretty good player who looked pretty promising just 5 or 6 years ago, but he hasn't been the same since.

I do like the idea of him over some of the people in the bottom 6. MacDermid of course and Bastian when he misses his usual 40% of the games due to injury. But I think he plays opposite wing. Actually, he doesn't. Wrong Nathan Bastian lol.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm sure I'm way behind on this one

But there's apparently another Nathan Bastian, and he even played for the New Jersey Titans of the EHL lol.

He was born in 1994. As soon as I saw that I was like ''Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bastian's not that old, clear error on their part'' but it was a totally different guy from Illinois who never even played major pro hockey.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Not even close to being as bad as Stillman

Remains to be seen, tbh. If Stillman turns into a good 4th line player (he probably won't) is that a worse pick than taking mcleod a good 4th line player (at his peak) 17 picks earlier?

Knowing what we know now, sure it's a less defensible pick, but half the story remains to be written. And far less likely things have happened than former low 1st overall pick breaks out into good bottom 6 player after age 21.

 

[Scorcho]

The more Zacha does well in Boston the more it starts to look like the pick was fine and our development in that time period was the real problem...

 

[MasterofGrond]

The more Zacha does well in Boston the more it starts to look like the pick was fine and our development in that time period was the real problem...

Zacha is exactly the same player in Boston he was here

 

[Scorcho]

Zacha is exactly the same player in Boston he was here

Pavel Zacha Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Pavel Zacha. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Not really, 116 Pts in 160 games at +38 with a selke vote is a very different player than 179 points in 386 games at -66

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Pavel Zacha Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Pavel Zacha. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Not really, 116 Pts in 160 games at +38 with a selke vote is a very different player than 179 points in 386 games at -66

now, who did he play with in Boston and who did he play with in NJ?

I couldn't care less about +/-.

"a Selke vote" lol

 

[NJDevs26]

It's weird that so many people are willing to call Stillman a horrible pick but not McLeod....In my view, it's virtually the same type of pick with slightly varying level of magnitude in draft position and talent.

Stillman hasn't played an NHL game yet much less scored a big Game 7 goal in the playoffs.

 

[JimEIV]

Stillman hasn't played an NHL game yet much less scored a big Game 7 goal in the playoffs.

We didn't use a #11 overall, to get Stillman either.

We essentially used an #11 overall to pick a player that was projected to be a 3rd liner before the draft....that seems insane to me with 2 potential top pairing D right in front of us.

Picking a player that essentially has the same ceiling of bottom 6 at 29th overall and the 3rd pick we had in the round is not remotely as bad as the McLeod pick

 

[NJDevs26]

The more Zacha does well in Boston the more it starts to look like the pick was fine and our development in that time period was the real problem...

Sometimes guys just need a change of scenery, but we'll get tests of that (the development concern) this year with Holtz and Schmid in Vegas

 

[NJDevs26]

I mean everyone first guessed Stillman 'at the time' even more than Holtz got first guessed...the McLeod pick people were mostly just bitching we picked #11 in a ten player draft.