Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[devilsblood]

I’m struggling to value an “elite” goaltending when the difference between vitek and hellebuyck last year was

.09 on the save percentage and -0.04 on the ga
Especially when considering assets and contract

The 3 year numbers are significantly better for Helle's and he played way more minutes over that span.

It would have to be a guy that is exactly like Smith, doesn't really matter, steady enough not to make terrible mistakes that often (outside of penalties) and low enough on the totem pole that he can be sat for stretches and it not be weird.

For Smith's warts, he was the perfect stop gap for injuries/Bahl/Luke to all happen and/or not and not hurt us in anyway.

I think it needs to be better then Smith because we knew Smith was going to be with a much better partner. The RHD is going to be playing with Bahl.

 

[TrufleShufle]

The 3 year numbers are significantly better for Helle's and he played way more minutes over that span.


I think it needs to be better then Smith because we knew Smith was going to be with a much better partner. The RHD is going to be playing with Bahl.

Better is always... better, but that comes with $ and outside of that, I actually have faith that a Bahl who isn't worried about losing his spot will loosen up and actually take a big step forward this year.

 

[Call Me Al]

Fitz said he wouldn’t acquire a guy he wasn’t interested in long term…but then also said he wanted Toffoli to play for the team first.

My reading between the lines is Fitz wants to make sure Toffoli fits first. Fitz will evaluate Toffoli as a more than 1 season piece later.

my take is fitz thinks that once he sees the area - the light travel, proximity to nyc/restaurants/etc. and nice communities to raise a family and the direction of the team that he would lower his contract demands, and i think that’s a good strategy

 

[beekay414]

Is Troy Stecher awful?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Is Troy Stecher awful?

He’s probably not better than Smith or Nemec. And he’s tiny.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Fitz blew his load on cement skates toffoli who also doesn’t bring any size or grit. Now devils don’t really have cap space to add a bertuzzi or Hathaway. At least toffoli is an upgrade over tatar and is a right handed shot. Hathaway and bertuzzi will both will probably get paid nicely so it is what it is.

Toffoli is also a much, much better player than either of those guys. So who cares?

What a weird complaint.

Fit’s load = cap space

I’d say acquiring toffoli took the devils out of the running for making a play for hellebuyck.

If you could only add 1 - toffoli or hellebuyck - I’d take the goalie

Sharangovich was a good trade piece. I felt him plus vitek was a good base for a trade for hellebuyck.

The complaints on here are that the forward group lacks size and grit and the goaltending is good but not good enough now toffoli doesn’t really address any of that. He is a right handed shot and will be a nice complementary piece. I just really would have preferred the elite goalie instead.

Baseless. No, it absolutely did not. They could send VV back in any Hellebyuck trade and have plenty of space.

 

[beekay414]

He’s probably not better than Smith or Nemec. And he’s tiny.

But it'd be funny to see him playing with Bahl.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Is Troy Stecher awful?

No, he’s a serviceable guy, kinda like a John Marino-(very)lite. Not really an offensive D but he skates and moves the puck well. He’s small and not very physical though, or at least he wasn’t when i was watching him with the Canucks a bunch.

 

[beekay414]

No, he’s a serviceable guy, kinda like a John Marino-(very)lite. Not really an offensive D but he skates and moves the puck well. He’s small and not very physical though, or at least he wasn’t when i was watching him with the Canucks a bunch.

He's on my shortlist of stopgaps until Nemec is ready. I think I'd prefer Clifton but Stecher is a decent fallback and he shouldn't cost much.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Bertuzzi is less of a scorer. Besides the long term expensive commitment he's gonna require, he's also just a worse fit. He scored 8 goals this year.

complaining about getting Toffoli because it stopped the Devils from signing Bertuzzi is WILD

 

[Nico Hischier]

Bertuzzi is less of a scorer. Besides the long term expensive commitment he's gonna require, he's also just a worse fit. He scored 8 goals this year.

complaining about getting Toffoli because it stopped the Devils from signing Bertuzzi is WILD

That’s not what I’m saying at all

 

[Guttersniped]

Bertuzzi and toffoli are nothing alike. Bertuzzi is a pest and agitator and can get under opponents skin. I said toffoli is slow and doesn’t bring size or grit to the top 6 but he is a right hand shot and an upgrade on tatar. I also said bertuzzi is probably going to get paid well. So again. It is what it is.

You’re assuming Bertuzzi would pick us as a UFA and I don’t know why you’re assuming that.

Florida is reportedly interested in him and there’s roughly zero chance he choses to live in Northern Jersey over Florida.

Boston is reportedly going to make a push to keep him. He’s a top free agent prize.

It’s like the posters saying we should have dumped Bratt for Ivan Barbashev. That plan also just simply assumes the other top forward free agent would pick us.

 

[Nico Hischier]

You’re assuming Bertuzzi would pick us as a UFA and I don’t know why you’re assuming that.

Florida is reportedly interested in him and there’s roughly zero chance he choses to live in Northern Jersey over Florida.

Boston is reportedly going to make a push to keep him. He’s a top free agent prize.

It’s like the posters saying we should have dumped Bratt for Ivan Barbashev. That plan also just simply assumes the other top forward free agent would pick us.

I am not assuming anything

The 2 biggest complaints on this board after the season was that the forwards lack size and grit and the goaltending was good but not great.

Devils went out and got a decent right handed shot complimentary piece in toffoli which will be great. Toffoli is not a pest to play against like bertuzzi is which would have answered the first complaint about grit. Not that I’d really want bertuzzi at his new contract I’m just saying he would have added the grit people complain about while toffoli does not.

The second complaint about goaltending being good but not good enough and then the rumors about hellebuyck to New Jersey, I would have preferred to acquire hellebuyck over toffoli if we could only add one. Some say we can still trade for him but I have my doubts.

 

[jkrdevil]

Looking at the pool of free agent d-men, I am not sure what we do with it. Anyone have any ideas? I saw some mention Gudas but I think he will be out of price range. I also think Smith is a huge liability, and am actually more worried about the left side than right.

I am more comfortable with Nemec in the top 6 getting 15 minutes with an experienced partner than I am with Luke/Bahl/Smith rotating.

You offer someone a PTO at the end of August and then cut him when Nemec beats them out.

 

[jkrdevil]

Bertuzzi isn’t coming here. They have say about $3 million to play with and he is going to demand more than that. There is no one on the roster to throw overboard to fit him.

I think that $3 million is if they can do a VV for Hellebuyck swap in goal. Otherwise it could mean a depth forward signing later in the summer (Or just hold on to it for accrued space during the season).

 

[MasterofGrond]

Helle, who i'm not even sure I want, is easily doable without any moves unless, like, McLeod f***s the team.

And if he does, f*** him, ship him out, don't miss on a goalie for Mikey f***in McLeod.

 

[beekay414]

Don't remotely care about "grit."

Toffoli is a better hockey player than Bertuzzi and a better fit. We were severely lacking a right shot forward and the last four seasons, Toffoli's been a 30 goal, 60 point per 82 player.

 

[RSeen]

Don't remotely care about "grit."

Toffoli is a better hockey player than Bertuzzi and a better fit. We were severely lacking a right shot forward and the last four seasons, Toffoli's been a 30 goal, 60 point per 82 player.

Toffoli plays a heavy game I believe and we definitely needed a right shot in the top 6. It is really just him and Mercer. Toffoli also now gives us an option to improve PP1. The right shot gives you a different look.

 

[Nico Hischier]

It was a complete mistake to bring up bertuzzi. I only did because he is a pest to play against which people said we need more of after watching the Carolina series.

Toffoli will be good and a right handed shot we desperately need. But he’s not a pest.

And id rather have hellebuyck over either of them if we only had room for one. We only will have room to resign one of them if we still somehow acquire hellebuyck.

 

[beekay414]

Toffoli is also a better locker room fit from all accounts. Having guys like Palat and Toffoli in that locker room will be invaluable towards eventually winning. What does Bertuzzi know about winning?

Toffoli will be good and a right handed shot we desperately need. But he’s not a pest.

Who cares? He's still heavy to play against. You don't need a "pest" you just need someone that offers a different look than what our current top 6 does. Timo, Mercer, Toffoli, Bratt, Nico and Jack blend together nicely.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It was a complete mistake to bring up bertuzzi. I only did because he is a pest to play against which people said we need more of after watching the Carolina series.

Toffoli will be good and a right handed shot we desperately need. But he’s not a pest.

And id rather have hellebuyck over either of them if we only had room for one. We only will have room to resign one of them if we still somehow acquire hellebuyck.

There are zero (0) better forwards than Toffoli out there in free agency. Fitz got him for peanuts. And you are seriously overrating “grit”. Massive oversimplification to say that’s why we lost to Carolina.

And again, we can literally add Hellebuyck as well, but we probably shouldn’t.

 

[RSeen]

I do worry a bit about making too many more changes to the forward group with regard to our style of play relying so much on team speed. I'm particularly thinking of all the pressure we were able to put on opponents in the offensive and neutral zones to force turnovers and win puck battles. Toffoli, Holtz, and Foote already would have been the slowest forwards on the team last year and are all looking at being regulars this year.

I don't necessarily think it's wrong to try to upgrade a Boqvist or Bastian or whatever, but if you do you need to make sure it's someone that can keep up.

Foote and Holtz still need to earn their opportunity and they will likely be playing with players that can skate well. If they are not playing well at the deadline, we can always acquire upgrades.

 

[Guttersniped]

I am not assuming anything

The 2 biggest complaints on this board after the season was that the forwards lack size and grit and the goaltending was good but not great.

Devils went out and got a decent right handed shot complimentary piece in toffoli which will be great. Toffoli is not a pest to play against like bertuzzi is which would have answered the first complaint about grit. Not that I’d really want bertuzzi at his new contract I’m just saying he would have added the grit people complain about while toffoli does not.

The second complaint about goaltending being good but not good enough and then the rumors about hellebuyck to New Jersey, I would have preferred to acquire hellebuyck over toffoli if we could only add one. Some say we can still trade for him but I have my doubts.

Toffoli actually does add what we need, he’s a grittier scorer. He does it while being solid defensively.

We’re losing offense (Tatar, Wood, Sharongovich) and we need add it back to remain an elite team.

I don’t care about “size and grit” as some catch phrase. Toffoli is no way soft or small. Our team has flaws, it can’t be fixed in an off-season. We added Meier for god sakes, we added size. It’s a work in progress. The offense can’t suffer in the name of grit.

I like Bertuzzi as a player, he’s just fun to watch, other than he has had a ton of injuries and is going to the highest bidder as as UFA.

But the dude is infamously a Red State guy and the NJ/NY metro area is very not that. Famously not that. I don’t see him picking us over Florida, or Dallas.

It looks like the Bruins failed at their attempt to keep him:



So the guys getting a giant bag. You would be less happy about the guy when he has 12 goals in a season and misses the playoffs due to injury while making 6m. (He doesn’t play much defense either.)

You have to be careful with bad value UFA contracts, even for players you want. We have one with Palat, but you can’t do that every off-season or team starts to get bloated and eventually worse.

 

[Nico Hischier]

There are zero (0) better forwards than Toffoli out there in free agency. Fitz got him for peanuts. And you are seriously overrating “grit”. Massive oversimplification to say that’s why we lost to Carolina.

And again, we can literally add Hellebuyck as well, but we probably shouldn’t.

Our goaltending was probably the biggest reason we lost to Carolina. The only game we won 8-4 and Carolina hit like 5 posts.

 

[Nico Hischier]

Toffoli actually does add what we need, he’s a grittier scorer. He does it while being solid defensively.

We’re losing offense (Tatar, Wood, Sharongovich) and we need add it back to remain an elite team.

I don’t care about “size and grit” as some catch phrase. Toffoli is no way soft or small. Our team has flaws, it can’t be fixed in an off-season. We added Meier for god sakes, we added size. It’s a work in progress. The offense can’t suffer in the name of grit.

I like Bertuzzi as a player, he’s just fun to watch, other than he has had a ton of injuries and is going to the highest bidder as as UFA.

But the dude is infamously a Red State guy and the NJ/NY metro area is very not that. Famously not that. I don’t see him picking us over Florida, or Dallas.

It looks like the Bruins failed at their attempt to keep him:



So the guys getting a giant bag. You would be less happy about the guy when he has 12 goals in a season and misses the playoffs due to injury while making 6m. (He doesn’t play much defense either.)

You have to be careful with bad value UFA contracts, even for players you want. We have one with Palat, but you can’t do that every off-season or team starts to get bloated and eventually worse.

Great post. Toffoli will be a nice add. I was just really really hoping the hellebuyck to nj rumors were true and figured getting toffoli nixed that. I think this team would be an absolute force with hellebuyck backstopping cleaning up Luke and nemecs inevitable mistakes. Hellebuyck is an elite goalie and the team would play more confident with him. Vitek looked scared of the puck in the playoffs. Any mistake was in the back of the net. The avs got kuemper for a one year rental and won the cup. Hellebuyck is much better than kuemper