Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[Unknown Caller]

I think it's the price.

Remember when two 2nd rounders got you a starter?

Now we are talking about roster players that were 1st round picks 3 years ago and add +++?

And seemingly Nashville playing hardball in a deal from reports?

No thank you.

When did a top 5 goalie in the league get moved for two 2nd rounders? It took a top 10 pick to get Schneider and he wasn't even on Saros' level.

Tell me the last time a top 5 goalie in the league got traded in his 20s in the cap era, because I can't remember any off of the top of my head.

The impact a Vezina caliber goalie has on a game is significantly greater than whatever middling value Mercer brings.

 

[Forge]

I mean. Don't pay Mercer but trade for a goalie that will command more? Has anyone looked around the league and NOT found that goalies are absolute crapshoots?

Saros might be as close to a known quantity as you get and miles better than 34 yr old Markstrom. But I would much rather fix our defense and find the next Lyon, Kochetkov, Hill etc before you have to pay him.

Askarov might be a better deal and cheaper.

I think an askarov deal is more enticing personally, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

 

[tailfins]

Hischier for Saros?

No one is seriously suggesting this - it's just my own musing. But, I might do that deal if I thought Mercer to step into Hischier's shoes.

 

[JimEIV]

When did a top 5 goalie in the league get moved for two 2nd rounders? It took a top 10 pick to get Schneider and he wasn't even on Saros' level.

Tell me the last time a top 5 goalie in the league got traded in his 20s in the cap era, because I can't remember any off of the top of my head.

The impact a Vezina caliber goalie has on a game is significantly greater than whatever middling value Mercer brings.

Top 5 goalie? I love these descriptions...like when Schneider was a "top 3 goalie" in the league

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I think an askarov deal is more enticing personally, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

Nashville isn't moving Askarov

 

[Unknown Caller]

Top 5 goalie? I love these descriptions...like when Schneider was a "top 3 goalie" in the league

#1 in GSAx in 2023, #6 in GSAx in 2022, #5 in GSAx in 2021. Vezina finalist in 2022. He's a top 5 goalie along with Shesterkin, Sorokin, Hellebuyck, and Vasilevski. Name someone else who's better.

 

[dzubrus8]

A few goalies I'd be interested in if the current goalie corps makes it through the end of season

Elite goalies (60+ games)
* Saros (trade) - Mercer for Saros is probably what it'd take. I'd think about it
* Ullmark (trade) - I think it'll be too expensive but he's been really strong

Platoon goalies (30-50 games)
* Talbot (FA) - has had some really good years, looks to be getting the job done for LA now; 36-year old UFA I'd give him a 1x5 and see how Daws/Schmid do
* Thompson (trade) - one of the better names out there; I'd feel confident having him out for 40-50 games and hoping one of Daws/Schmid can play the other 30-40
* Kahkonen (FA) - has been good basically ever year except for last season; not sure he will be the guy for 60+ games but maybe the 1b in a 1a/1b situation

Backup goalies (15-25 games)
* Varlamov (trade) - long contract but good AAV. consistently very strong, he's the backup to Sorokin
* Fleury (FA) - 39 years old gives me pause, but if he got 20 games I think he would be able to play quality hockey
* Brossoit (FA) - was good for Vegas, now good for Winnipeg. he never plays more than ~20-30 games per season but the hope is he can spot start

 

[JimEIV]

If Mercer for Saros gets it done, I'd probably do it.

I think the forward corps without Mercer long-term looks something like this

Top-line talent: Hischier, Hughes, Bratt
Top-six talent: Holtz, one of Gritsyuk/Hameenaho/Clarke, Meier,
Middle-six talent: two of Gritsyuk/Hameenaho/Clarke, 2024 1st

And then on top of this I imagine there will continue to be the revolving door of vets (Haula, Toffoli, Palat, and Lazar to name a few in the current lineup)

I think most people here would say Mercer does not get the job done as a center for this team. If I had to guess he's a ~70 pt winger in his prime which, while great to have, I think is worth trading for an elite goalie like Saros.

Question I have though - Is Saros injury prone? I noticed before the last two seasons he was only playing ~30-40 games per season. It's good if it means he has more tread on the tires than others, not so good if it means he's constantly getting injured. I think the lack of games bodes well for his aging curve. This idea that he's a super athlete gives me pause because that's something that fades away, especially relative to IQ/positioning or size

After your "top line talent". The rest is big pile of nothing and a couple wishes...sans Meier but he's not living up to what he was brought in for...so far.

Honestly our forward group has never been as deep as people thought it was. It needs additions now and we are talking about subtractions.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Nashville isn't moving Askarov

Our fans love demanding that we trade for other players that aren't available. People saying they would rather have Saros when Hellebuyck was available and just days ago saying they wouldn't move Holtz for Markstrom, that he should be moved for someone like Saros.

Now Saros is potentially available and we want Askarov instead.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

If it was Mercer and we didn’t have to include a 1st or Casey for Saros…I’d have to think about that. Not including much more than that though.

We would have to rely on Holtz more, resign Toffoli, and possibly dip into the free agent market for a wing.

 

[JimEIV]

#1 in GSAx in 2023, #6 in GSAx in 2022, #5 in GSAx in 2021. Vezina finalist in 2022. He's a top 5 goalie along with Shesterkin, Sorokin, Hellebuyck, and Vasilevski. Name someone else who's better.

We played this spreadsheet game with Schneider too.

 

[Unknown Caller]

We played this spreadsheet game with Schneider too.

And he was phenomenal until he got injured. Literally single handedly stopped this team from getting McDavid/Eichel with how dominant he was. Just stop.

 

[tailfins]

I think an askarov deal is more enticing personally, but I'm not sure how likely that is.

Zero chance.

The "young" guy who might get moved is Filip Gustavsson. He's 25 (turns 26 in the off-season). He's blocking Wallstedt. But he has only two more years at a reasonable $3.75 million on his contract, so Minny can probably afford for him and Wallstedt to be a combo. Plus, he's having an not great season (though still better than Vitek).

Maybe Knight gets moved? But, he's having (what seems like) a mediocre year in the AHL after seeking help for OCD. He's signed at $4.5 million per year for two more years. Big gamble to take that on.

 

[Forge]

I really like Mercer, but maybe I'm down on him and don't realize it. Or at least more so than others.

I view him as a good player, but not cornerstone-esque. I Just never thought he was a ppg type. Always seems like a try hard middle six winger to me. I haven't viewed him as an actual center for a long time. I don't think that he's going to be a consistent presence on PP1 at any point of his career to bump his point production, so I kind of just feel like he'll mostly be a 20-25 / 55 guy? Obviously that's just my take on what I think he'll do moving forward.

I'm not saying I'd move him, but I'm not going to apoplectic if they do either.

But maybe I think I like him and secretly hate him lol

 

[Andre Palot]

For a goalie?


Where is that throw up emoji I can't find it.

If it's just Markstrom? No.

If it's Hanifin + Markstrom? That's better

For Soros? Absolutely

 

[tailfins]

After your "top line talent". The rest is big pile of nothing and a couple wishes...sans Meier but he's not living up to what he was brought in for...so far.

Honestly our forward group has never been as deep as people thought it was. It needs additions now and we are talking about subtractions.

The Devils of the late 90s and even late 00s weren't particularly stacked at forward. Saros is realistically a hall of fame goalie who only turns 29 this year. If you could get close to Marty's (or Lundquist's) performance from 29 - 34, you don't think that's worth a hit to the forward corps?

IMO, Saros (assuming good health) give the Devils a shot at 2 - 3 cups. Totally worth a significant investment.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Haula-Hughes-Toffoli
Palat-Nico-Bratt
Duclair-Lazar-Meier
Holtz-Nosek-Bastian

Siegenthaler-Nemec
Luke-Marino
Bahl-Miller

Saros
Daws

 

[JimEIV]

And he was phenomenal until he got injured. Literally single handedly stopped this team from getting McDavid/Eichel with how dominant he was. Just stop.

He shit the bed at 31 and you are advocating trading good roster players and giving out a 58 million dollar contract for 7/8 years for a 29 year old goalie.... it doesn't make sense.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I think we can

I actually think

I don't think the

Do I think the

Do I think it

I think there

I think there are

I personally don't think

I think the

I think he's

I think that's a close comparable.

I think

I don't think it's that much different.

I think I would

I think a

I also think

I think it's the

I think the

I think an

Absolutely love the collective thinking going on these last few pages. Well done HF Devils

 

[dzubrus8]

After your "top line talent". The rest is big pile of nothing and a couple wishes...sans Meier but he's not living up to what he was brought in for...so far.

Honestly our forward group has never been as deep as people thought it was. It needs additions now and we are talking about subtractions.

I think part of the reason for that sentiment is because the Devils' 3 top line talents would be the best or second best forward on more than half the teams in the league.

I'm not saying they'd need to rely on two of Holtz/Hameenaho/Gritsyuk/Clarke to be in their top-six - I'm arguing that they have the talent and potential that the Devils could have 2 top-six core players from that group in 2-3 years in addition to Meier, Bratt, Hischier, Hughes.

The idea is that you trade Mercer and in 2 years you could have Gritsyuk or Hameenaho coming in with similar results.

Roster now vs. in 2 years
Hughes -> Hughes
Hischier -> Hischier
Meier -> Meier
Bratt -> Bratt
Toffoli -> Holtz
Mercer -> Hameenaho or Gritsyuk
Holtz -> Hameenaho or Gritsyuk
Haula -> Haula (maybe) or vet replacement
Palat -> Vet replacement
Lazar -> Lazar (maybe)
Nosek, Bastian -> Bastian, Foote, vet replacement

 

[Bcap88]

They keep playing the way they are they won’t even need a goalie at this rate. Is it the goalie? Or is the the actual players/coaching staff playing the right way?

Play like this and you can fill out ur roster with a 925k a year goalie

 

[Bcap88]

Half the board bitches about timo and his 8.8 price tag

Can only imagine what one saros softie would bring with an 8 mil price tag

 

[JimEIV]

The Devils of the late 90s and even late 00s weren't particularly stacked at forward. Saros is realistically a hall of fame goalie who only turns 29 this year. If you could get close to Marty's (or Lundquist's) performance from 29 - 34, you don't think that's worth a hit to the forward corps?

IMO, Saros (assuming good health) give the Devils a shot at 2 - 3 cups. Totally worth a significant investment.

The problem is that you and many others are coming at this from a place where you believe the team is at a point to compete for a championship right now...and it's just not. This defense is two years away from being good enough, the forward group needs help and I think even Jack needs a bit of maturing.

 

[Bcap88]

NHL goalies are like nfl running backs

Use them in their prime, let them walk, replace them with a cheaper option, rotate them 50/50

 

[dzubrus8]

The problem is that you and many others are coming at this from a place where you believe the team is at a point to compete for a championship right now...and it's just not. This defense is two years away from being good enough, the forward group needs help and I think even Jack needs a bit of maturing.

I'm probably in your camp on this - I think the defense right now is good and on paper is above average but in 2-3 years could be top-5 in the league.

The forward corps is above average, not top-5 but probably top-10.

That being said, even if you think the defense could be top-5 in 2-3 years and the forward corps top-10 in 2-3 years, I don't think that should preclude Fitz from also trying to make something happen now.

It's not the best team winning the cup every year. Besides teams like Boston and (maybe) Carolina that the Devils don't match up well against, I can't think of another team in the league that would definitely take down the 2024 Devils (with Dougie and Siegs and >.900 goaltending) in a 7 game series