Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[glenwo2]

First two periods were pretty dominant.

Which makes the 3rd period pretty concerning. I get not expecting further dominance in the 3rd period, but to instead completely fall apart in the 3rd? Not great.

It's like when the Devils went down by a goal again, they felt like it was 5 goals 'cause they couldn't much of anything past that sh*tstain of a goaltender aka Sideshow-Bob-Wannabe for the Caps.

 

[NJDevils17]

I think the biggest thing you can criticize Fitz for is his lack of addressing the goalie situation in the offseason.

Vitek had been bad months prior to the Rangers series and Schmid was still extremely unproven. Schmid turning into a pumpkin forced Daws up post-serious surgery and. is he’s being overplayed.

On defense, we made the obvious right decision in not paying Graves / Severson based on their respective performances this year.

The real issue on D is regression from Siegs and Marino (and Bahl) combined with losing Dougie. You’re thrusting 19/20 year olds into huge minutes where you were hoping they’d grow into it gradually, not 25+ minutes like Luke has been. Luke is hitting a wall with minutes / games over the last month+.

Injuries to the forwards are still lingering. Jack is hurt and probably requires offseason surgery. Timo is obviously still playing through injuries. Nico’s absence totally changes the complexion of this team when he’s out.

 

[britdevil]

Bullshit. They were never going to stash a #2 overall in Utica this entire season. It was NEVER EVER going to happen. It was a matter of "when" not if.

On top of that, a lot of people here were complaining that he didn't start the season here.

I guess we'll never know.

Personally I don't see why they would have recalled him if all the RD were healthy and playing every game? To sit in the press box? To watch tape?

That worked so well for Holtz last season... A mistake even TF admitted to committing.

 

[JimEIV]

I guess we'll never know.

Personally I don't see why they would have recalled him if all the RD were healthy and playing every game? To sit in the press box? To watch tape?

That worked so well for Holtz last season... A mistake even TF admitted to committing.

With Hamilton and Marino perfectly healthy 3RHD was going to be Smith or Miller...how long could you have possibly kept Nemec out over Miller/Smith?

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I guess we'll never know.

Personally I don't see why they would have recalled him if all the RD were healthy and playing every game? To sit in the press box? To watch tape?

That worked so well for Holtz last season... A mistake even TF admitted to committing.

I guess I don't understand @JimEIV's complaint that Nemec was designated as the first AHL callup in case of injury. Seemed like that plan worked brilliantly of all the plans the team utilized this year. With perfect foresight Nemec should have started on the team after camp actually given Miller's injury meant we had a Smith/Hughes 3rd pair for the first part of the season which was terrible.

 

[glenwo2]

I'd like to interrupt (once again) this misery-loves-company time with an uplifting photo :








Okay....you can all go back to fantasizing about tying Ruff to a rocket ship and blasting him to mars....

 

[theoptimist]

Why do you think he has value he is good ...Even In a down year he is outperforming others on the roster....One of our better young players let's get rid of him....Trade TT and move on stop trying to salvage this year....

Who is TT? Tristian Thompson? He’s not on the team anymore.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

I guess we'll never know.

Personally I don't see why they would have recalled him if all the RD were healthy and playing every game? To sit in the press box? To watch tape?

That worked so well for Holtz last season... A mistake even TF admitted to committing.

Yeah I think the smart thing would've been to do your best to keep that ELC sliding for one year. Of course, you have to also weigh the risk of pissing him off to the point where he plays hardball in the next contract negotiation. Either way it doesn't matter, and the experience Nemec has gotten has been positive. The risk was if he was equal or less effective to Brendan Smith and Miller where you're wasting an ELC year for nothing.

 

[AfroThunder396]

We are still in very good long-term position whether we make the playoffs or not. The only way to jeopardize that is to start removing pieces now.

Meier and Marino will bounce back next year. It's really, really rare for players to just suddenly fall off a cliff in their mid-20s. Unless Meier's injury is more severe that they're letting on and he has permanent damage (in which case, forcing him to play through it now would be an egregious offense that the NHLPA would investigate, so I find that unlikely).

Siegenthaler I'm a little worried about, he hasn't looked good for over a year now. I hope having some extended time off helped him reset mentally. Otherwise that left side is an absolute shitshow. He really needs to step up his game, if he doesn't then we're going to need to bring in another defenseman to slot Siege down further in the lineup.

Luke will be back stronger next year, I have to think it's a conditioning thing. Going from college hockey where you only play on weekends to a full-time 82 game schedule is a huge jump. It's pretty common for rookies coming out of college to hit a wall in January and struggle across the finish line. People keep forgetting how young he is, he won't turn 21 until September.

Mercer, I don't know what the hell is going on with him. He needs to get his head out of his ass. His level of play is just totally unacceptable, especially for a guy in a contract year. I would bridge him for 3 years in the $4-5M range and tell him that if he wants a big boy contract he has to go out and earn it from scratch. Ruff is doing him no favors, but he shouldn't need to be coddled at this point. I get that 22 is still young, but he's played 219 NHL games at this point, he's not a baby anymore. I'm starting to worry he may end up being less like Bratt and more like Zacha.

Toffoli, I'd offer him a 2 year deal, take it or leave it. I think he can be a useful player, but giving him a long-term deal is just absolutely not something you can do to an inconsistent guy on the wrong side of 30. If he will agree to 2 years @ 5-5.5M then he can come back, otherwise I'm not shackling myself to him. If someone wants to give him a 4-5 year deal, go ahead and be my guest.

Jack needs to grow up. I'm sick of watching him pout like a baby. He comes off like a petulant baby. Still a phenomenal player, but when your top guy is throwing tantrums to the refs it's easy for people not to take your team seriously. He's definitely playing different after his injury, don't know if it's physical or mental, but either way the rest of the locker room looks to him for leadership. He needs to mature and show some responsibility.

I'm fed up with Bahl. No urgency to his game, no growth, no development. Just the same stupid mistakes over and over again, he doesn't learn. He's a 6/7 guy, that's it. Trade him now before the rest of the league catches on.

After going back and re-watching the stadium game, it's hard not to see parallels between Holtz and Owen Tippett. High 1st rounder, known for his shot, came around pretty slowly in his early years. Florida traded him and now he's blossoming with another team. I don't think he's some mega star in the making, but I do think we would regret trading him for a short-term addition. Eeli Tolvanen is another example of a young player with a great shot who struggled early, his team gave up on him, and now he's doing much better on a different team.

Brendan Smith should submit an application to Burger King, I heard they have an opening for assistant manager. I think his veteran leadership would be a valuable addition to their break room.

 

[devilsblood]

I think the biggest thing you can criticize Fitz for is his lack of addressing the goalie situation in the offseason.

Vitek had been bad months prior to the Rangers series and Schmid was still extremely unproven. Schmid turning into a pumpkin forced Daws up post-serious surgery and. is he’s being overplayed.

On defense, we made the obvious right decision in not paying Graves / Severson based on their respective performances this year.

The real issue on D is regression from Siegs and Marino (and Bahl) combined with losing Dougie. You’re thrusting 19/20 year olds into huge minutes where you were hoping they’d grow into it gradually, not 25+ minutes like Luke has been. Luke is hitting a wall with minutes / games over the last month+.

Injuries to the forwards are still lingering. Jack is hurt and probably requires offseason surgery. Timo is obviously still playing through injuries. Nico’s absence totally changes the complexion of this team when he’s out.

But we know he was looking at Hellebuck. So he was looking at legit upgrades, unfortuneately Helle's, and other high end goalies are going to cost a lot.

And I was never into the idea of bringing in a mediocre goalie which would force Schmid, coming off a very promising year in the NHL, back to the AHL.

Now in hindsight, or course, we should have brought in a guy.

I've also been pushing the idea that once it was clear Schmid was not playing at the same level as last year we should have gone after Kahkonen. Think we could have gotten him for not too much.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Luke shouldn't be leading the team in icetime every game. It's a different game when you are trailing so of course Ruff will play him more but in my eyes Luke hasn't warranted all season being the guy to lead the team in icetime. The Hamilton injury really messed things up this season. I don't think it's a coincidence either as to why the powerplay has struggled. They are missing parts of his game.

Maybe next season we see a jump in Luke's game but he has hit a bit of a wall. It's too much too soon for him IMO & the warts in his game have been heavily exposed. Just gotta remember how young he is , its.not his fault he has been thrust into this role so fast.

 

[glenwo2]

Mercer, I don't know what the hell is going on with him. He needs to get his head out of his ass. His level of play is just totally unacceptable, especially for a guy in a contract year. I would bridge him for 3 years in the $4-5M range and tell him that if he wants a big boy contract he has to go out and earn it from scratch. Ruff is doing him no favors, but he shouldn't need to be coddled at this point. I get that 22 is still young, but he's played 219 NHL games at this point, he's not a baby anymore. I'm starting to worry he may end up being less like Bratt and more like Zacha.

Even if he comes into his own and becomes the player we want him to be, he'll still be less like Bratt.

Jack needs to grow up. I'm sick of watching him pout like a baby. He comes off like a petulant baby. Still a phenomenal player, but when your top guy is throwing tantrums to the refs it's easy for people not to take your team seriously. He's definitely playing different after his injury, don't know if it's physical or mental, but either way the rest of the locker room looks to him for leadership. He needs to mature and show some responsibility.

As far as I'm concerned, Nico and Bratt are the Top Guys here.

Until Jack stops acting the way he does, that's my point of view.

 

[JimEIV]

I guess I don't understand @JimEIV's complaint that Nemec was designated as the first AHL callup in case of injury. Seemed like that plan worked brilliantly of all the plans the team utilized this year. With perfect foresight Nemec should have started on the team after camp actually given Miller's injury meant we had a Smith/Hughes 3rd pair for the first part of the season which was terrible.

My complaint is knowingly going into this season with 3 Dmen with a total of 68 games of NHL experience that would have to shoulder a heavy burden at some point.

It was unjustifiably stupid.

 

[Blackjack]

First two periods were pretty dominant.

Which makes the 3rd period pretty concerning. I get not expecting further dominance in the 3rd period, but to instead completely fall apart in the 3rd? Not great.

Disagree that they were dominating. But in any case…

A legitimate playoff team, a team with leadership and coaching, having had the better of play for 40 minutes and still finding themselves down, would have come out and played with the urgency and desperation that the situation called for.

This team has zero leadership. Nothing to draw on for the stretch run.

 

[OmNomNom]

*surprised pikachu face*

 

[Better Call Sal]

EDIT: Beaten to it.

 

[Devils731]

I’m looking forward to the 2-3 good Poulter games before the team destroys him too.

 

[R8Devs]

edit

 

[Triumph]

Siegenthaler I'm a little worried about, he hasn't looked good for over a year now. I hope having some extended time off helped him reset mentally. Otherwise that left side is an absolute shitshow. He really needs to step up his game, if he doesn't then we're going to need to bring in another defenseman to slot Siege down further in the lineup.

I think the old way of doing defense was worst for Siegenthaler - didn't let him take advantage of his ability to shut down zone entries and had him moving all over the place. They can't slot Siegenthaler farther down, though - they have to trade him if they're convinced he won't return to his old level. Just can't have a 3rd pairing D who is 27 years old making that kind of money - the 3rd pairing needs to be left to young players/fill-in vets.

Mercer, I don't know what the hell is going on with him. He needs to get his head out of his ass. His level of play is just totally unacceptable, especially for a guy in a contract year. I would bridge him for 3 years in the $4-5M range and tell him that if he wants a big boy contract he has to go out and earn it from scratch. Ruff is doing him no favors, but he shouldn't need to be coddled at this point. I get that 22 is still young, but he's played 219 NHL games at this point, he's not a baby anymore. I'm starting to worry he may end up being less like Bratt and more like Zacha.

Mercer took a really hard shot off his foot a few weeks ago and missed some shifts - to me it looked like the classic case of a guy who broke his foot who can continue in the game but once he takes the skate off, it's over. But then nothing much more was said about it and he's been playing (poorly) since then.

After going back and re-watching the stadium game, it's hard not to see parallels between Holtz and Owen Tippett. High 1st rounder, known for his shot, came around pretty slowly in his early years. Florida traded him and now he's blossoming with another team. I don't think he's some mega star in the making, but I do think we would regret trading him for a short-term addition. Eeli Tolvanen is another example of a young player with a great shot who struggled early, his team gave up on him, and now he's doing much better on a different team.

Tippett I think is just much better at finding the space for his shot - he's still more of a throwback to the 10s decade to where he is just a guy who shoots a f***ton. I don't think Holtz is quite there, but he is getting 9 shots/60 at ES which is pretty good. I just think these sorts of players tend to have short shelf lives because you want them to do more and they don't. Tippett's going to be in Philadelphia a long time - I think Tolvanen moves around a lot.

EDIT - I mostly agreed with your other points which is why I cut them out.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

We are still in very good long-term position whether we make the playoffs or not. The only way to jeopardize that is to start removing pieces now.

Meier and Marino will bounce back next year. It's really, really rare for players to just suddenly fall off a cliff in their mid-20s. Unless Meier's injury is more severe that they're letting on and he has permanent damage (in which case, forcing him to play through it now would be an egregious offense that the NHLPA would investigate, so I find that unlikely).

Siegenthaler I'm a little worried about, he hasn't looked good for over a year now. I hope having some extended time off helped him reset mentally. Otherwise that left side is an absolute shitshow. He really needs to step up his game, if he doesn't then we're going to need to bring in another defenseman to slot Siege down further in the lineup.

Luke will be back stronger next year, I have to think it's a conditioning thing. Going from college hockey where you only play on weekends to a full-time 82 game schedule is a huge jump. It's pretty common for rookies coming out of college to hit a wall in January and struggle across the finish line. People keep forgetting how young he is, he won't turn 21 until September.

Mercer, I don't know what the hell is going on with him. He needs to get his head out of his ass. His level of play is just totally unacceptable, especially for a guy in a contract year. I would bridge him for 3 years in the $4-5M range and tell him that if he wants a big boy contract he has to go out and earn it from scratch. Ruff is doing him no favors, but he shouldn't need to be coddled at this point. I get that 22 is still young, but he's played 219 NHL games at this point, he's not a baby anymore. I'm starting to worry he may end up being less like Bratt and more like Zacha.

Toffoli, I'd offer him a 2 year deal, take it or leave it. I think he can be a useful player, but giving him a long-term deal is just absolutely not something you can do to an inconsistent guy on the wrong side of 30. If he will agree to 2 years @ 5-5.5M then he can come back, otherwise I'm not shackling myself to him. If someone wants to give him a 4-5 year deal, go ahead and be my guest.

Jack needs to grow up. I'm sick of watching him pout like a baby. He comes off like a petulant baby. Still a phenomenal player, but when your top guy is throwing tantrums to the refs it's easy for people not to take your team seriously. He's definitely playing different after his injury, don't know if it's physical or mental, but either way the rest of the locker room looks to him for leadership. He needs to mature and show some responsibility.

I'm fed up with Bahl. No urgency to his game, no growth, no development. Just the same stupid mistakes over and over again, he doesn't learn. He's a 6/7 guy, that's it. Trade him now before the rest of the league catches on.

After going back and re-watching the stadium game, it's hard not to see parallels between Holtz and Owen Tippett. High 1st rounder, known for his shot, came around pretty slowly in his early years. Florida traded him and now he's blossoming with another team. I don't think he's some mega star in the making, but I do think we would regret trading him for a short-term addition. Eeli Tolvanen is another example of a young player with a great shot who struggled early, his team gave up on him, and now he's doing much better on a different team.

Brendan Smith should submit an application to Burger King, I heard they have an opening for assistant manager. I think his veteran leadership would be a valuable addition to their break room.

Ovechkin pre Trotz vibes, a harsher coach would've already pulled Luke off of PP1 after this 4 of 57 rut instead of caring about their feelings/playing with each other on that unit

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

*surprised pikachu face*

So he’ll be playing the biggest game of the season for us? Good luck, buddy.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I’m looking forward to the 2-3 good Poulter games before the team destroys him too.

3 good 1 bad may get us into the playoffs

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

So he’ll be playing the biggest game of the season for us? Good luck, buddy.

Highly doubt it, it'll probably be Daws again and Poulter gets the Habs

 

[bossram]

Just fire Ruff and give Green the rest of the season.

Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.

It's beyond time. Just duff Ruff. He's not taking this team anywhere.

So he’ll be playing the biggest game of the season for us? Good luck, buddy.

Lindy: "Now that I've run down another promising young goalie into the dirt, time to move on to the next".

 

[Nocashstyle]

Why not give Schmid a single start since his recent call up? VV continued to get chance after chance after chance to establish himself. Schmid got preemptively exiled, teased with a call up, and then sent back down again. Even with his subpar play this season, he’s earned the benefit of the doubt with his play last year. At least give him “ah” start