GDT: Devils @ Stars - 2:00 PM MSG+

[Bleedred]

Why haven't we called up Holtz? Why isn't he playing here?

Spoiler alert: This is a trap question that I have ulterior motives for.

 

[vtdevils2k]

Technically speaking, Lays is the Rangers version of NJ Devslolz but he’s not far off.

That’s the other one. Props

 

[Guttersniped]

The celebrating, boasting, whatever, about ''All I've heard over and over and over and over is about how we're ruining his career'' would seem to indicate that you were using today's game to shoot that down and argue against that. Where were you to argue against that when he was getting blown up the last handful (or the better part of the last handful of games) of games when I was heavily preaching that we're flirting with ruining him?

Playing because we have no viable options in goals (in a lost season) is actually a pretty good reason not to keep playing him in the NHL.

if he weren't struggling (and he has been struggling since his early surge), I wouldn't think it was the worst thing to keep him up. If we needed to depend on him to make the playoffs? I wouldn't think it was the worst thing, although he'd need to play as well as he did up until the last 3.5-4 weeks if it was gonna do anything to help us make the playoffs. This is assuming we were still on the bubble and not on the bubble of the first overall pick.

Can people just be happy for a day about the kid’s great game in net? He won his second away game.

No one here actually makes roster decisions. Sorry if people aren’t upset enough this very minute about our shitty goaltending situation because they’re happy he won.

 

[MVP Zacha]

The celebrating, boasting, whatever, about ''All I've heard over and over and over and over is about how we're ruining his career'' would seem to indicate that you were using today's game to shoot that down and argue against that. Where were you to argue against that when he was getting blown up the last handful (or the better part of the last handful of games) of games when I was heavily preaching that we're flirting with ruining him?

Playing him because we have no viable options in goal (in a lost season) is actually a pretty good reason not to keep playing him in the NHL.

if he weren't struggling (and he has been struggling since his early surge), I wouldn't think it was the worst thing to keep him up. If we needed to depend on him to make the playoffs? I wouldn't think it was the worst thing, although he'd need to play as well as he did up until the last 3.5-4 weeks if it was gonna do anything to help us make the playoffs. This is assuming we were still on the bubble and not on the bubble of the first overall pick.

You are right. I won't say anyone had a good game anymore if they have been struggling. I apologize.

 

[My3Sons]

Why haven't we called up Holtz? Why isn't he playing here?

Spoiler alert: This is a trap question that I have ulterior motives for.

I think Holtz toils away in Utica because he is a bust in waiting and Fitz is just trying to hide his failure from the rest of us. Out of sight out of mind.

Does that help with whatever rant you are going to unleash on us?

 

[Devs3cups]

Why haven't we called up Holtz? Why isn't he playing here?

Spoiler alert: This is a trap question that I have ulterior motives for.

I activate the trap card. Tell me more.

 

[My3Sons]

So I took a minute to look at the box score. It’s pretty obvious what is going on with Tatar. NJ has miscast him. Mercer was only about 17% on his faceoffs today. In contrast, Tatar was 100%. Clearly Tatar needs to be the matchup faceoff center taking those roles from Hischier and McLeod both. Don’t all thank me at once for figuring that out.

 

[Bleedred]

You are right. I won't say anyone had a good game anymore if they have been struggling. I apologize.

My issue wasn't that you said he had a great game.

My critique was that you come in here posting that he had a good game, while also making a comment how all you've heard over and over (it's pretty much only me or mostly me that beats that drum about sending him back and how this could wind up ruining him and at the very least does not appear good for his development) about how we're ruining him.

You obviously thought that was relevant to him having a good game, but one good game means that we might not be ruining him and that this type of NHL workload (while struggling) may be detrimental to his development?

Since you've already agreed he should be in the AHL, I won't spend any more time arguing examples of why this might be detrimental to his development.

But I've seen it on here for years. That we ruined this guy's development by playing him too much too early or called that guy too soon. Everybody from David Hale to Mattias Tedenby to even Pavel Zacha. Hell, even Jack Hughes!

And a lot of times, I do think they may have been right and had a point. Especially with somebody like Tedenby or even Josefson. Those guys were called up way too early and they had a great surge only and that was their peak at the NHL level. At least for Tedenby it was.

The same reason why Daws probably shouldn't be here right now is the same reason why it's fine that Holtz is not here right now.

 

[Guttersniped]

I activate the trap card. Tell me more.

 

[My3Sons]

I activate the trap card. Tell me more.

I know that reference said the old man that had been frozen in ice

 

[Bleedred]

I activate the trap card. Tell me more.

Basically, it seems like the reason he's not here (and it's a good one) is so he can play out the AHL year and dominate there. There's no need for him to be here right now. I do think he might get a call up at the very end of the year though. Maybe the last week? Second to last week? I doubt before this road trip ends though.

I think they feel it's best for his development to not be in the NHL right now and that's just more of my rationale for the Daws thing.

 

[MVP Zacha]

My issue wasn't that you said he had a great game.

My critique was that you come in here posting that he had a good game, while also making a comment how all you've heard over and over (it's pretty much only me or mostly me that beats that drum about sending him back and how this could wind up ruining him and at the very least does not appear good for his development) about how we're ruining him.

You obviously thought that was relevant to him having a good game, but one good game means that we might not be ruining him and that this type of NHL workload (while struggling) may be detrimental to his development?

Since you've already agreed he should be in the AHL, I won't spend any more time arguing examples of why this might be detrimental to his development.

But I've seen it on here for years. That we ruined this guy's development by playing him too much too early or called that guy too soon. Everybody from David Hale to Mattias Tedenby to even Pavel Zacha. Hell, even Jack Hughes!

And a lot of times, I do think they may have been right and had a point. Especially with somebody like Tedenby or even Josefson. Those guys were called up way too early and they had a great surge only and that was their peak at the NHL level. At least for Tedenby it was.

The same reason why Daws probably shouldn't be here right now is the same reason why it's fine that Holtz is not here right now.

Easy now. You are talking about my boys Jake and Teddy. I will start to get upset soon!

 

[Emperoreddy]

Dat movement

Jesus that was a grown man shift

 

[My3Sons]

Basically, it seems like the reason he's not here (and it's a good one) is so he can play out the AHL year and dominate there. There's no need for him to be here right now. I do think he might get a call up at the very end of the year though. Maybe the last week? Second to last week? I doubt before this road trip ends though.

I think they feel it's best for his development to not be in the NHL right now and that's just more of my rationale for the Daws thing.

My guess is that Fitz woukd agree with you in a quiet moment but would counter that Daws is unfortunately the best chance NJ has to win a game and that they believe this experience won’t ruin him even if it slows him down a bit but that next season they will figure out the NHL goaltending so he can stay in Utica for a full season and be left alone.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Jesus that was a grown man shift

The mainboard has a thread the Dallas feed audio for it (full sequence)....

Haha

 

[MVP Zacha]

Jesus that was a grown man shift

As soon as he started playing keep away I knew he was going to bury it. What a highlight reel shift.

 

[MVP Zacha]

My guess is that Fitz woukd agree with you in a quiet moment but would counter that Daws is unfortunately the best chance NJ has to win a game and that they believe this experience won’t ruin him even if it slows him down a bit but that next season they will figure out the NHL goaltending so he can stay in Utica for a full season and be left alone.

This.

 

[Bleedred]

What did they miss with the ''Refs you suck!'' chant right before Nico scored his goal?

I swear there were ''Let's go Devils!'' chants there at one point too.

 

[Hisch13r]

2 pts for the team, 2 pts for the captain, and 2 fingers up

 

[Offseason Champs]

And a lot of times, I do think they may have been right and had a point. Especially with somebody like Tedenby or even Josefson. Those guys were called up way too early and they had a great surge only and that was their peak at the NHL level. At least for Tedenby it was.

The same reason why Daws probably shouldn't be here right now is the same reason why it's fine that Holtz is not here right now.

Maybe it's more about the player and less about the action, you know? If a guy is way over his head like Schmid was earlier this year then they definitely send him back. Unfortunately it's an unknowable question because we'll never know if Tedenby flamed out because he was rushed to the NHL or if that was always destined to be his lot in the NHL.

You can conversely look at Nico who played in the NHL early, or Hughes like you mentioned and they've been fine. Goalies may be a different thing, I have no idea, but I guess we just need to trust that the people who talk and communicate with him on a daily basis are doing the right thing by him and his career and aren't sacrificing his long term career on the altar of a wasted season.

 

[Bleedred]

Maybe it's more about the player and less about the action, you know? If a guy is way over his head like Schmid was earlier this year then they definitely send him back. Unfortunately it's an unknowable question because we'll never know if Tedenby flamed out because he was rushed to the NHL or if that was always destined to be his lot in the NHL.

You can conversely look at Nico who played in the NHL early, or Hughes like you mentioned and they've been fine. Goalies may be a different thing, I have no idea, but I guess we just need to trust that the people who talk and communicate with him on a daily basis are doing the right thing by him and his career and aren't sacrificing his long term career on the altar of a wasted season.

I agree with you that it's a case by case basis.

David Hale sucked, I don't think there was any way he was gonna ever be any good.

I don't think it helped Tedenby and Josefson, but two major injuries in Josefson's first two pro seasons (both kept him out for months, second year was a broke collar bone, I can't remember what the first year was) probably also affected him. He wouldn't have even gotten enough AHL time those years because of those.

Zacha? You know, I don't think it was a good idea at the time for him to turn pro when he did, but the argument was that ''He has nothing more to prove in the OHL. There's nothing left for him to do there''. That wasn't my stance, but I wasn't really pro-having him in the NHL that year either. I didn't have a stance on that either way, but looking back on it, he probably shouldn't have been in the NHL at 19 years old.

The Hughes stuff was always funny. While Jack did struggle early at times in his rookie season, I don't think he ever really looked like he was brought into the league too early. And a first overall pick has always made it straight to the NHL. I think maybe Erik Johnson was the last not to? And that was over 15 years ago at this point?

 

[MadDevil]

I would be worried about "ruining" Daws if he looked completely over his head every game and was Hammond/Gillies level bad. He's definitely had some bad games (especially lately before today), but he's also looked at least competent in others. And yes I know even bad goalies can have good games, but he's the best goalie we have in a shitty situation, so I can't really blame them for playing him. We have to at least give these kids a chance to win games, even if the season is long since over for us.

 

[Bleedred]

I would be worried about "ruining" Daws if he looked completely over his head every game and was Hammond/Gillies level bad. He's definitely had some bad games (especially lately before today), but he's also looked at least competent in others. And yes I know even bad goalies can have good games, but he's the best goalie we have in a shitty situation, so I can't really blame them for playing him. We have to at least give these kids a chance to win games, even if the season is long since over for us.

Fair enough

Honestly, I wasn't trying to make 10 posts beating on him and us for ruining him, but I was called out and needed to defend myself.

While I'm happy for his game today though, I'm not gonna be a hypocrite and flip flop and change my stance on it and say ''Okay, we're fine with keeping him up now! Everything's good!''.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Basically, it seems like the reason he's not here (and it's a good one) is so he can play out the AHL year and dominate there. There's no need for him to be here right now. I do think he might get a call up at the very end of the year though. Maybe the last week? Second to last week? I doubt before this road trip ends though.

I think they feel it's best for his development to not be in the NHL right now and that's just more of my rationale for the Daws thing.

So nothing to do with burning an ELC year after two more games?

 

[Devils731]

So nothing to do with burning an ELC year after two more games?

That could be beneficial.