Confirmed with Link: Devils sign Tomas Tatar - 2 years @ $4.5M AAV

[Forge]

If advanced stats say Zacha is ass , why does the team use him as much as they do and not look to trade him? Just an honest question . I’m sure the Devils analytic department can see what we see plus a ton more so why would they play him still if he is garbage?

1) assumption that they haven't looked to move him. They may have and there's no market or it's not worth the trade. It still has to make sense

2) have you seen our roster the last few years? Him playing so much may not be praise of Zacha so much as an indictment if the rest of the roster. A necessary evil, if you will.

Now, I have know idea if those two things are true in any way, shape or form. Just answering the question

 

[Hisch13r]

If advanced stats say Zacha is ass , why does the team use him as much as they do and not look to trade him? Just an honest question . I’m sure the Devils analytic department can see what we see plus a ton more so why would they play him still if he is garbage?

Teams routinely make dumb moves and are far from being infallible. Draft pedigree and size can take a player a LONG way. Look at Risto averaging 24 minutes a game over his career

 

[Eggtimer]

1) assumption that they haven't looked to move him. They may have and there's no market or it's not worth the trade. It still has to make sense

2) have you seen our roster the last few years? Him playing so much may not be praise of Zacha so much as an indictment if the rest of the roster. A necessary evil, if you will.

Now, I have know idea if those two things are true in any way, shape or form. Just answering the question

Fair enough . I agree point #2 makes sense. I guess I’m just an old fart where I don’t want to believe in advanced stats being critical in evaluating players more so than the eye test. It’s inevitable that advanced stats will be vitally important in sports as they develop and improve methods to record and interpret data points.
For now I’m just at the level where I sit and watch my team and if someone scores a nice goal I think that player is good lol. I’m exaggerating but I am honestly miles behind when it comes to following stats. I guess I just don’t have the time to learn more about them or I’m too stubborn and don’t think I’ll be able to understand them?

 

[Guttersniped]

I can’t believe that we signed Tatar on August 5th, THURSDAY, and it’s already turned into Zacha vs Tatar, FOR NO DISCERNIBLE REASON, because of a mixture of trolling and psychosis and ingrained habit. (I’m not pretending I’m above this sort of thing btw but holy smokes it weird.)

This is a hockey team not the Hunger Games, they all get to play.

Zacha historically has had terrible Goals Against, he doesn’t play the toughest minutes but he’s not very good at 5v5 defense (or possession) and he’s had some very ugly defensive numbers. That’s why he doesn’t get to wear any “Best Player” crown, even with last seasons improvements. This however has absolutely nothing to do with signing Tatar. (And if anyone disagrees they can go debate a tree stump, I’m all Zacha’ed out when it comes debating. I’d rather gauge out my eyes than look up Zacha’s stats for the 478th time to make the same points about his strengths and weaknesses.)

Anyhoo, Tater played mostly with Danault (1931 minutes) and Gallagher (1659) in his three seasons in Montreal 5v5. The next two forwards in minutes are Domi (265), Kotkaniemi (253) and Armia (169). That was one top lines in hockey for three years and it always functioned as part checking line/part top scoring line. So he was the opposite of sheltered.

In these last playoffs Gallagher was injured and historically doesn’t score in the playoffs. Danault historically doesn’t score in the playoffs either. With the Suzuki line getting hot and other fluky timely scoring they turned the Danault line into a full-on checking line. Tatar is a scoring forward and so he did get replaced by Evans until he was crushed into oblivion and then Lehkonen.

I think Ducharme and co were keeping too many grinders in the line-up who had fluky production early on, which eventually dried up. Whatever, not my favorite team, not my problem.

 

[beekay414]

We have Tatar and Zacha. Why are we arguing over who is better? Jesus Christ you guys just love to be miserable.

 

[StevenToddIves]

yeah I am sure you watched all the Habs regular season games last year

here is a hint- the "charts" that people like you hate are the results of what happened in those games....

There was a pandemic. I watched a lot of hockey. Probably about 20 Habs games. Tatar is a good 2nd line player. He makes the Devils deeper and better and I'm glad he was signed to a reasonable deal. But the analytics don't tell the whole story, because they only cover a singular aspect of the game. Tatar does not improve the Devils forward corps in areas they need improvement, such as board play and netfront presence. This is not a knock on Tatar, it's just not his game. Just as it would be unfair to entirely judge Tatar on the fact he's an annual playoff scratch, it's also unfair to judge him strictly on analytic charts which only tell a small fraction of the whole story. I don't see how this is controversial.

 

[britdevil]

Zacha vs Tatar????

 

[The 29th Pick]

I can’t believe that we signed Tatar on August 5th, THURSDAY, and it’s already turned into Zacha vs Tatar, FOR NO DISCERNIBLE REASON, because of a mixture of trolling and psychosis and ingrained habit. (I’m not pretending I’m above this sort of thing btw but holy smokes it weird.).

This is why we're "arguing" Zacha vs Tatar, it's the dog days of summer, we cant discuss last nights game and the soft goals we let in or the lifeless power play!
oh and thanks for adding fuel to the fire! Pot meet Kettle !!!

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

If advanced stats say Zacha is ass , why does the team use him as much as they do and not look to trade him? Just an honest question . I’m sure the Devils analytic department can see what we see plus a ton more so why would they play him still if he is garbage?

Last year was a mess. with COVID/no practice I am guessing they are looking at players like Zacha/Bratt this year to determine if they are part of the future core or not. Basically the whole teams (other than Nico/Dougie) contracts are up in the next few years so I do think you will start seeing some potential trades of younger players.

 

[Faterson]

We have Tatar and Zacha. Why are we arguing over who is better?

Fans overseas will definitely do that. Czech vs. Slovak is always perceived as a rivalry, even when they play on the same team. (Hopefully, this doesn't affect the players themselves.)

 

[Buck Dancer]

There was a pandemic. I watched a lot of hockey. Probably about 20 Habs games. Tatar is a good 2nd line player. He makes the Devils deeper and better and I'm glad he was signed to a reasonable deal. But the analytics don't tell the whole story, because they only cover a singular aspect of the game. Tatar does not improve the Devils forward corps in areas they need improvement, such as board play and netfront presence. This is not a knock on Tatar, it's just not his game. Just as it would be unfair to entirely judge Tatar on the fact he's an annual playoff scratch, it's also unfair to judge him strictly on analytic charts which only tell a small fraction of the whole story. I don't see how this is controversial.

Another aspect that gets lost in the shuffle is the linemates he had in Montreal versus what he’ll have in NJ. He played with two guys that would dig out pucks from corners and do most of the dirty work. Danault and Gallagher, as I like to call them, are basically superstar grinders. Who do we have on our roster that will generate those types of chances for Tatar?

Like you said, he’s not someone that will win battles along the boards and his net front presence is non existent. As good as he can be offensively, we got more of the same when what we needed was probably the opposite of what Tatar brings to our lineup.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

There was a pandemic. I watched a lot of hockey. Probably about 20 Habs games. Tatar is a good 2nd line player. He makes the Devils deeper and better and I'm glad he was signed to a reasonable deal. But the analytics don't tell the whole story, because they only cover a singular aspect of the game. Tatar does not improve the Devils forward corps in areas they need improvement, such as board play and netfront presence. This is not a knock on Tatar, it's just not his game. Just as it would be unfair to entirely judge Tatar on the fact he's an annual playoff scratch, it's also unfair to judge him strictly on analytic charts which only tell a small fraction of the whole story. I don't see how this is controversial.

even if you "don't want to judge him on the analytic charts", lets judge him on pure counting stats....he is basically a 0.75 ppg player for his career.

 

[JimEIV]

Zacha vs Tatar????

View attachment 459913

Because this board is very smart and very aware of the decisions that are going to have to be made.

This board intuitively knows that Jack and Tatar are a horrible fit... And to get Tomas a prime LW offensive spot it probably comes at moving Zacha off of Nico's wing.

This conversation was people setting stage for what they know is about to come...

It probably means moving Zacha into less than ideal 3rd line center position and instead of blaming the unnecessary add of a redundant forward it'll be easier to just say Zacha sucks when he's forced to do the work at 3C.

This board is impressively preemptive.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Because this board is very smart and very aware of the decisions that going to have to made.

This board intuitively knows that Jack and Tatar are a horrible fit... And to get Tomas a prime LW offensive spot it probably comes at moving Zacha off of Nico's wing.

This conversation was people setting stage for what they know is about to come...

It probably means moving Zacha into less than ideal 3rd line center position and instead of blaming the unnecessary add of a redundant forward it'll be easier to just say Zacha sucks when he's force to do the work at 3C.

This board is impressively preemptive.

If that’s the case, which makes a ton of sense since we haven’t acquired a 3rd line center yet, we’ll be icing one of the smallest and lightest top #6 in the league.

We needed to beef up our top #6 but instead, we got a perimeter player who doesn’t like to go in corners, struggles to win board battles and his net front presence is not part of his game.

We will have to rely on transitional offense more so then anything else and that might work but I would’ve preferred the other option.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

If that’s the case, which makes a ton of sense since we haven’t acquired a 3rd line center yet, we’ll be icing one of the smallest and lightest top #6 in the league.

We needed to beef up our top #6 but instead, we got a perimeter player who doesn’t like to go in corners, struggles to win board battles and his net front presence is not part of his game.

We will have to rely on transitional offense more so then anything else and that might work but I would’ve preferred the other option.

Which of these players was available to upgrade the "top #6" (HINT- this is your tell)? They offered Saad a contract, he chose to go elsewhere. (and I'd rather have Tatar to Saad).

Also please refer to the chart in my above post. This notion that Tatar has no netfront presence is simply not true.

 

[Nubmer6]

Because this board is very smart and very aware of the decisions that going to have to made.

This board intuitively knows that Jack and Tatar are a horrible fit... And to get Tomas a prime LW offensive spot it probably comes at moving Zacha off of Nico's wing.

This conversation was people setting stage for what they know is about to come...

It probably means moving Zacha into less than ideal 3rd line center position and instead of blaming the unnecessary add of a redundant forward it'll be easier to just say Zacha sucks when he's forced to do the work at 3C.

This board is impressively preemptive.

I don't think Tatar was the Devils' first choice (nor mine) or the perfect fit, but I also don't think it's bad to add talent.

Just remember Lindy likes to shuffle his lines, so I think we definitely WILL see Zacha back at 3C at some point, but we'll see him with Hischier and Bratt too. Heck, we could even end up with 3 scoring lines if we pick up Tarasenko, although that would probably require Boqvist having a breakout offensive season.

Also, even though the board is all about Tatar in a top 6 role, he's also been used on shutdown lines previously. It would be unpopular here, but maybe we stick him on a line with Boqvist and Johnsson to create a checking line with offensive pop and leave the Nico and Hughes lines in tact.

He adds a bit of ambiguity, but he also adds a lot of options.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I’m gonna go ahead and predict Tatar will not struggle playing next to Jack Hughes or Nico Hischier.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Which of these players was available to upgrade the "top #6" (HINT- this is your tell)? They offered Saad a contract, he chose to go elsewhere. (and I'd rather have Tatar to Saad).

Also please refer to the chart in my above post. This notion that Tatar has no netfront presence is simply not true.

Tarasenko was my main option. He’s a shooter and that’s what Jack needs in order for us to get the best out of him. How many times did he setup his wingers only for them to botch a grade-A scoring chance? We picked Alexander Holtz because he was the best shooter in the draft with the hopes that he and Jack can eventually click the same way Jack and Cole did when they were playing together.

As for your graphic in regards to Tatar, you’re completely ignoring the context of who he was playing with in Montreal and who he’ll be playing with in New Jersey. You can have stats and charts say just about anything and if we’re strictly using this tool to evaluate players more so then watching tapes of what he’s actually doing on the ice, it’s not something that will be to our advantage when all is said and done.

Hint, your obnoxious ways to talk down to everyone who isn’t in line with your point of view is your tell. I don’t know what your trying to pull here but by the way, you do realize that the meaning "top #6" is used by just about everyone who talks about hockey, right?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Tarasenko was my main option. He’s a shooter and that’s what Jack needs in order to get the best out of him. How many times did he setup his wingers only for them to botch a grade-A scoring chance? We picked Alexander Holtz because he was the best shooter in the draft with the hopes that he and Jack can eventually click the same way Jack and Cole did when they were playing together.

As for your graphic in regards to Tatar, you’re completely ignoring the context of who he was playing with in Montreal and who he’ll be playing with in New Jersey.

Last time I checked, Tarasenko was not traded? Did I miss the news? Maybe he doesnt get traded atall? He is also very damaged goods.

We have no idea who Tatar will be playing with. Kuokkanen does all the things you said about going in the corners. Hughes is not afraid to go to the corners and boards. Nico does it, etc.

 

[Cheddabombs]

If Tatar was going to struggle playing next to Hughes or Hischier, why would he be excited to play with them?

 

[StevenToddIves]

even if you "don't want to judge him on the analytic charts", lets judge him on pure counting stats....he is basically a 0.75 ppg player for his career.

Like I said, Tatar is a fine signing for the price. He's been a good second-line scoring winger, and at 30 years old might have a couple of productive seasons left. But his lack of an interior/net-front/board presence does not make him the best fit for the Hughes line or the Hischier line. The Devils have a talented top-6, but they don't exactly play the heavy style which wins net-front/puck battles and thus NHL games. Tatar is pretty soft, so I'm just concerned about the fit. I do agree with the pro-Tatar crowd that he was a good deal for the price/term combination of $4.5m per over two years. He'll add a bit of offense for a team which needs more offense, and I feel he'll improve a PP which struggled last season.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Nearly every "these guys will be great/awful together" take ends up being horribly wrong. Chemistry between players is a personal thing and not determined by attributes. You never know who is going to click with who until you put them together and see.

 

[MadDevil]

Because this board is very smart and very aware of the decisions that are going to have to be made.

This board intuitively knows that Jack and Tatar are a horrible fit... And to get Tomas a prime LW offensive spot it probably comes at moving Zacha off of Nico's wing.

This conversation was people setting stage for what they know is about to come...

It probably means moving Zacha into less than ideal 3rd line center position and instead of blaming the unnecessary add of a redundant forward it'll be easier to just say Zacha sucks when he's forced to do the work at 3C.

This board is impressively preemptive.

If Zacha is so reliant on Nico that he can't be away from him and stinks when he plays center, maybe he's not actually that good?

 

[The 29th Pick]

time will tell, I see both arguments to have merit, the team will play on the ice, not on paper

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Like I said, Tatar is a fine signing for the price. He's been a good second-line scoring winger, and at 30 years old might have a couple of productive seasons left. But his lack of an interior/net-front/board presence does not make him the best fit for the Hughes line or the Hischier line. The Devils have a talented top-6, but they don't exactly play the heavy style which wins net-front/puck battles and thus NHL games. Tatar is pretty soft, so I'm just concerned about the fit. I do agree with the pro-Tatar crowd that he was a good deal for the price/term combination of $4.5m per over two years. He'll add a bit of offense for a team which needs more offense, and I feel he'll improve a PP which struggled last season.

Like I said, the "he sucks at the net front" thing is just inaccurate.