Confirmed with Link: Devils sign Tomas Tatar (1 year, $1.8 million)

[dgibb10]

Tatar had some chemistry with Nico and Mercer before, those are some combos with them I would explore.

Noesen is a "bottom-sixer" that scores efficiently, brings some jam, forechecks, and has decently good hands around the net. I think you can get big value from him next to more talented players. He doesn't need to touch the puck much, which is an ideal fit next to players like Jack and Bratt. Palat and Haula also often look good together, another combo to explore.

They have a lot of interchangeable parts and wingers that can move up and down. There won't be any rigid lines.

My biggest question is the power play.

Do you take Nico Hischier off of PP1 and replace him with a clearly better netfront guy in noesen? In that case, who takes faceoffs?

Do you take one of the wingers off PP1 in Bratt (so he can handle entries on PP2) or Meier?

Which D do you have on PP1, Hamilton or Luke.

I think the easiest fix is Nico for Noesen, which hurts nico's point totals but imo would make our PP better.

Otherwise Nico, Noesen, Jack, then 1 of these pairs: Luke/Meier, or Bratt/Hamilton.

This leaves 1 of Luke or Bratt to handle zone entries for PP2, which could not break into the zone at ALL last year

 

[CalamityX23]

Finally a chance to articulate my thoughts rather than spewing boo in a post.

Yea, not sure why or the game plan is.

IMO, Tatar won't play a bottom 6 role. If he's being inserted in the top 6 then we have a major problem in our team offense. As good as is he was/is, we need to be better in order to elevate and take that next step. He doesn't improve the team IMO, if anyting, slightly hinders along with some others.

 

[Xirik]

Finally a chance to articulate my thoughts rather than spewing boo in a post.

Yea, not sure why or the game plan is.

IMO, Tatar won't play a bottom 6 role. If he's being inserted in the top 6 then we have a major problem in our team offense. As good as is he was/is, we need to be better in order to elevate and take that next step. He doesn't improve the team IMO, if anyting, slightly hinders along with some others.

If Hischier can have the year he had with Tatar again while being a great shutdown line I'll call that a success. I think we have good enough depth for the Jack line and 3rd line to pick up some of the offense.

 

[bossram]

Finally a chance to articulate my thoughts rather than spewing boo in a post.

Yea, not sure why or the game plan is.

IMO, Tatar won't play a bottom 6 role. If he's being inserted in the top 6 then we have a major problem in our team offense. As good as is he was/is, we need to be better in order to elevate and take that next step. He doesn't improve the team IMO, if anyting, slightly hinders along with some others.

If Tatar can reprise his level next to Nico that he did in 22-23, they'll have no issues in the regular season. If he can't, he'll be moved down.

I think of bigger importance is Mercer bouncing back. They need him to be top-six quality.

 

[Triumph]

Finally a chance to articulate my thoughts rather than spewing boo in a post.

Yea, not sure why or the game plan is.

IMO, Tatar won't play a bottom 6 role. If he's being inserted in the top 6 then we have a major problem in our team offense. As good as is he was/is, we need to be better in order to elevate and take that next step. He doesn't improve the team IMO, if anyting, slightly hinders along with some others.

The team does not think of things in terms of a top 6 and bottom 6. It might for a guy like Cotter, but not for Tatar, who played all over the lineup when he was last here - he played 600 minutes with Nico, 204 with Jack, 220 with Haula, and 96 with Boqvist.

Anyway, you can have complementary players in your 'top 6' and still have a dynamite offense, I don't understand why these things are mutually exclusive.

 

[bossram]

My biggest question is the power play.

Do you take Nico Hischier off of PP1 and replace him with a clearly better netfront guy in noesen? In that case, who takes faceoffs?

Do you take one of the wingers off PP1 in Bratt (so he can handle entries on PP2) or Meier?

Which D do you have on PP1, Hamilton or Luke.

I think the easiest fix is Nico for Noesen, which hurts nico's point totals but imo would make our PP better.

Otherwise Nico, Noesen, Jack, then 1 of these pairs: Luke/Meier, or Bratt/Hamilton.

This leaves 1 of Luke or Bratt to handle zone entries for PP2, which could not break into the zone at ALL last year

I'm going Hamilton on PP1. It's a weapon they missed. Outside of a fluky first 20 games, the PP with Luke at the top was garbage.

I think they will default to Jack, Nico, Bratt, Meier up front on the PP. I'm fine with that. If it looks really bad, I would probably swap Bratt with Noesen. Meier preferably plays the left flank on the PP anyway (which is where Bratt traditionally likes), then you move Nico to the bumper.

 

[dgibb10]

I'm going Hamilton on PP1. It's a weapon they missed. Outside of a fluky first 20 games, the PP with Luke at the top was garbage.

I think they will default to Jack, Nico, Bratt, Meier up front on the PP. I'm fine with that. If it looks really bad, I would probably swap Bratt with Noesen. Meier preferably plays the left flank on the PP anyway (which is where Bratt traditionally likes), then you move Nico to the bumper.

By "first 20 games" do you mean "with a healthy jack hughes"?? Because the PP1 was near the top of the league with Jack healthy, and even when he was at less than that it was good.

The PP2s inability to make it into the offensive zone was the biggest issue, and the PP1s struggles without Jack.

I would move 1 of Luke or Bratt to PP2, not because they are worse weapons than Hamilton, but because they have the skating to carry the puck in a way nobody else (especially hamilton) does. Meanwhile with Jack+ Luke or Bratt, entries should be covered on PP1

 

[bossram]

By "first 20 games" do you mean "with a healthy jack hughes"?? Because the PP1 was near the top of the league with Jack healthy, and even when he was at less than that it was good.

The PP2s inability to make it into the offensive zone was the biggest issue, and the PP1s struggles without Jack.

I would move 1 of Luke or Bratt to PP2, not because they are worse weapons than Hamilton, but because they have the skating to carry the puck in a way nobody else (especially hamilton) does. Meanwhile with Jack+ Luke or Bratt, entries should be covered on PP1

The PP at the beginning of the season was a fluke. Unless you think a healthy Jack will mean they'll score on 40% of their PP shots and go 50% on the PP.

 

[Bleedred]

The PP at the beginning of the season was a fluke. Unless you think a healthy Jack will mean they'll score on 40% of their PP shots and go 50% on the PP.

I think the PP can be really good, but it was never going to be good with Travis Green running anything.

Don't get me wrong, it was in the top-10 in expected goals through about Thanksgiving. Back when it was by far first in the league and converting at about 40%.

But it plummeted into the bottom 10 by season's end in expected goals, but I think we were still in the top half of the league in conversion percentage just because of how hot it started.

 

[dgibb10]

The PP at the beginning of the season was a fluke. Unless you think a healthy Jack will mean they'll score on 40% of their PP shots and go 50% on the PP.

The expected goals metrics behind it were excellent too with a healthy Jack, and were great in general with a healthy jack

The problem is this. 350 players played at least 50 minutes on the power play this year.

Here was our PP2s ranks in terms of generating expected goals. All near the bottom of the league. Incredibly ineffective PP2

 

[bossram]

The expected goals metrics behind it were excellent too with a healthy Jack, and were great in general with a healthy jack

The problem is this. 350 players played at least 50 minutes on the power play this year.

Here was our PP2s ranks in terms of generating expected goals. All near the bottom of the league. Incredibly ineffective PP2

View attachment 891867

Their xG on the PP declined as the season went on. It wasn't good.

Teams don't really care about PP2s anymore. Pretty much everyone loads the PP1, and if the PP2 plays, it's a scrap 30 seconds where they have to break out of the zone.

 

[CalamityX23]

If Tatar can reprise his level next to Nico that he did in 22-23, they'll have no issues in the regular season. If he can't, he'll be moved down.

I think of bigger importance is Mercer bouncing back. They need him to be top-six quality.

Tatar is older now than two years ago... what we need, at least what I thought, isn't what he brings.

If he's moved down, is that optimal for us?

Definitely need Mercer coming back for sure.

 

[CalamityX23]

The team does not think of things in terms of a top 6 and bottom 6. It might for a guy like Cotter, but not for Tatar, who played all over the lineup when he was last here - he played 600 minutes with Nico, 204 with Jack, 220 with Haula, and 96 with Boqvist.

Anyway, you can have complementary players in your 'top 6' and still have a dynamite offense, I don't understand why these things are mutually exclusive.

If it some other random, maybe wouldn't bat an eye per say however its Tatar and based on his previous personal ties with the core group, I think he's going to see more time and roles that he's not going to help us in.

Mind you, yet to see how O'Keefe runs the show.

But I ask myself, what is Tatar bringing? Made us older so thats not a good way unless he specializes in something else.
He doesn't make us faster. The speed element to this squard was what identified this team as a playoff contender, I don't see the speed game throughout the forwards from top to bottom, more so bottom.
He's not an enforcer.
He's a vet, ok we have that in Palat.
He's not a sniper.

So I'm trying to find what complimentary improvement he brings. Right now Idk nor see it. What we needed was the size, physical players... the scorers, a deadly shot outside of Huges and... idk who's #2 really? A two way forward that can play an entire game without a noticeable drop in performance.

If Tatar is thrust into that top 6 role, with expectations he'll play meaningful shifts towards the end of games, i sincerely doubt it at his age and fatigue level.

I super agree with the complimentary in the top 6, as of right now, if Tatar was put into that role, I don't see where he makes us better. Years ago he had his purpose, but we need to be more, elevated, younger, faster, stronger... those are perks I wouldn't describe Tatar right now IMO. I can be very wrong into the season.

 

[RSeen]

Marner has 50 points in 57 career playoff games......

He was productive against Tampa last year but outside of that he has not been good. I live in Toronto and everyone here wants him gone due to his playoff performances.

Tatar had some chemistry with Nico and Mercer before, those are some combos with them I would explore.

Noesen is a "bottom-sixer" that scores efficiently, brings some jam, forechecks, and has decently good hands around the net. I think you can get big value from him next to more talented players. He doesn't need to touch the puck much, which is an ideal fit next to players like Jack and Bratt. Palat and Haula also often look good together, another combo to explore.

They have a lot of interchangeable parts and wingers that can move up and down. There won't be any rigid lines.

He did, but he disappeared during the playoffs that year (1 point) and is generally unproductive at that point in the season. It may work for stretches, but I don't have confidence in him being a regular late in the year.

It would be great if Noesen can show he can step up higher in the lineup, but I just wouldn't count on it.

And yes I agree, there will be lots of movement. I see us upgrading up front at the deadline. We have enough either way to be a top team, just think we will get that piece late in the year to solid our team.

 

[dgibb10]

Their xG on the PP declined as the season went on. It wasn't good.

Teams don't really care about PP2s anymore. Pretty much everyone loads the PP1, and if the PP2 plays, it's a scrap 30 seconds where they have to break out of the zone.

We had like 6 total goals from PP2 all year, and 2 in the last 62. If you're getting 3 PPs a game, 30 seconds, that's 1:30.

2 goals in 90 minutes with an extra player on the ice over the last 60+ games of the season. Truly unacceptable. Improving PP2 to chip in another 5-10 goals on the season is not a big ask, and would lead to more wins. That and fixing the empty net problem

 

[bossram]

Tatar is older now than two years ago... what we need, at least what I thought, isn't what he brings.

If he's moved down, is that optimal for us?

Definitely need Mercer coming back for sure.

If it some other random, maybe wouldn't bat an eye per say however its Tatar and based on his previous personal ties with the core group, I think he's going to see more time and roles that he's not going to help us in.

Mind you, yet to see how O'Keefe runs the show.

But I ask myself, what is Tatar bringing? Made us older so thats not a good way unless he specializes in something else.
He doesn't make us faster. The speed element to this squard was what identified this team as a playoff contender, I don't see the speed game throughout the forwards from top to bottom, more so bottom.
He's not an enforcer.
He's a vet, ok we have that in Palat.
He's not a sniper.

So I'm trying to find what complimentary improvement he brings. Right now Idk nor see it. What we needed was the size, physical players... the scorers, a deadly shot outside of Huges and... idk who's #2 really? A two way forward that can play an entire game without a noticeable drop in performance.

If Tatar is thrust into that top 6 role, with expectations he'll play meaningful shifts towards the end of games, i sincerely doubt it at his age and fatigue level.

I super agree with the complimentary in the top 6, as of right now, if Tatar was put into that role, I don't see where he makes us better. Years ago he had his purpose, but we need to be more, elevated, younger, faster, stronger... those are perks I wouldn't describe Tatar right now IMO. I can be very wrong into the season.

Tatar does the "little things" that most fans don't notice, but that make a line successful. It's why when he was with the Devils every line he was on seemed to be effective.

No, he is not a particularly fast or physical player. He's not a sniper. But he's good at creating some clean exits off the wall, bumping the puck into his center for a breakout. He'll run good routes on the forecheck to funnel players into his teammates. He has a defensive conscience. These things help your teammates a lot, even if they don't manifest as big point production. But most fans only notice the loud, physical skills.

Yes, Tatar is older now and is probably declining. The risk is that he isn't the same player as 2022-23. But if he is approximately close, he's a great glue guy to plug anywhere on the roster.

 

[bossram]

He was productive against Tampa last year but outside of that he has not been good. I live in Toronto and everyone here wants him gone due to his playoff performances.


He did, but he disappeared during the playoffs that year (1 point) and is generally unproductive at that point in the season. It may work for stretches, but I don't have confidence in him being a regular late in the year.

It would be great if Noesen can show he can step up higher in the lineup, but I just wouldn't count on it.

And yes I agree, there will be lots of movement. I see us upgrading up front at the deadline. We have enough either way to be a top team, just think we will get that piece late in the year to solid our team.

I think Noesen could be a good fit on one of the top two lines, particularly next to Bratt or Jack. He really doesn't need to touch the puck much. He just forechecks, hunts pucks, and gets to the net (where he has pretty decent hands). Jack/Bratt could handle all the transition work and in-zone playmaking.

I think Tatar's pace and processing speed is a bit behind the calibre and speed of the playoffs, yes. But they have to make the playoffs first. And my comments thus far were more in reference to regular season line combos and deployment.

 

[bossram]

We had like 6 total goals from PP2 all year, and 2 in the last 62. If you're getting 3 PPs a game, 30 seconds, that's 1:30.

2 goals in 90 minutes with an extra player on the ice over the last 60+ games of the season. Truly unacceptable. Improving PP2 to chip in another 5-10 goals on the season is not a big ask, and would lead to more wins. That and fixing the empty net problem

I think a lot of teams have similarly "unproductive" PP2s. The solution they came up with is to just load up PP1 more and play them even more.

EDM is kind of an extreme example, but their PP1 doesn't come off the ice. They don't really have a PP2.

You look at a guy like Lafreniere (stuck on PP2 with NYR, and their PP1 took up the majority of the ice time) and he has almost exactly the same PP points/60 as Dawson Mercer. The PP2 just isn't scoring, because teams focus on PP1.

 

[dgibb10]

I think a lot of teams have similarly "unproductive" PP2s. The solution they came up with is to just load up PP1 more and play them even more.

EDM is kind of an extreme example, but their PP1 doesn't come off the ice. They don't really have a PP2.

You look at a guy like Lafreniere (stuck on PP2 with NYR, and their PP1 took up the majority of the ice time) and he has almost exactly the same PP points/60 as Dawson Mercer. The PP2 just isn't scoring, because teams focus on PP1.

Lafreniere had an on ice goal differential of 3.78 goals/60 on the PP, and an Xgoals differential of 7.86
Mercer had an on ice goal differential of 1.4 goals/60 on the PP, and an xGoals differential of 4.78.

We are costing ourselves 5-6 goals a season, which may not seem like a lot, but it is. From an AWFUL PP2

 

[bossram]

Lafreniere had an on ice goal differential of 3.78 goals/60 on the PP, and an Xgoals differential of 7.86
Mercer had an on ice goal differential of 1.4 goals/60 on the PP, and an xGoals differential of 4.78.

We are costing ourselves 5-6 goals a season, which may not seem like a lot, but it is. From an AWFUL PP2

5 or 6 goals equates to about 1 win/2 standings points, which is meaningful but not huge. Interestingly the PP on-ice xG/60 between Lafreniere and Mercer was pretty similar (Laf slightly higher). So some bad shooting luck involved there.

But again, like I said, how most teams have solved this issue to either 1) make PP1 more cracked, or 2) play PP2 less and PP1 more

 

[Unknown Caller]

I think a lot of teams have similarly "unproductive" PP2s. The solution they came up with is to just load up PP1 more and play them even more.

EDM is kind of an extreme example, but their PP1 doesn't come off the ice. They don't really have a PP2.

You look at a guy like Lafreniere (stuck on PP2 with NYR, and their PP1 took up the majority of the ice time) and he has almost exactly the same PP points/60 as Dawson Mercer. The PP2 just isn't scoring, because teams focus on PP1.

I’m team leave PP1 on the ice basically the whole time. We have 4 elite forwards and Dougie and a drop off after that.

PP2 should just be in the scenarios where PP1 is completely winded.

 

[bossram]

I’m team leave PP1 on the ice basically the whole time. We have 4 elite forwards and Dougie and a drop off after that.

PP2 should just be in the scenarios where PP1 is completely winded.

Yep. I said in another post too, the way teams "solve" a bad PP2 is just cranking up PP1:

But again, like I said, how most teams have solved this issue to either 1) make PP1 more cracked, or 2) play PP2 less and PP1 more

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He was productive against Tampa last year but outside of that he has not been good. I live in Toronto and everyone here wants him gone due to his playoff performances.


He did, but he disappeared during the playoffs that year (1 point) and is generally unproductive at that point in the season. It may work for stretches, but I don't have confidence in him being a regular late in the year.

It would be great if Noesen can show he can step up higher in the lineup, but I just wouldn't count on it.

And yes I agree, there will be lots of movement. I see us upgrading up front at the deadline. We have enough either way to be a top team, just think we will get that piece late in the year to solid our team.

yeah Toronto fans are certainly rational thats for sure!

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

I just came to post that I'm overjoyed Tuna is back and I can officially unretire my Devils Tuna shirsey that was only out of service for one year.

Really hope he can find a groove being back with Nico.