Feed Me A Stray Cat
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In overall value provided, Merrill and Larsson are not better than Zidlicky.
Confirmed with Link: Devils sign Gelinas (1 year, $900k)
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In overall value provided, Merrill and Larsson are not better than Zidlicky.
But, but, but he puts up points and has a great shot!
Not worth noting at all that defenseman are supposed to... play, well, defense.
Tedenboozled
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- Mar 4, 2011
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If they're not, it's pretty damn close and that won't be the case by the end of the season anyway. I think they are just on sheer potential and capability of playing actual defense.
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
Hilarious comparison
Missionhockey
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But, but, but he puts up points and has a great shot!
Not worth noting at all that defenseman are supposed to... play, well, defense.
Best defense is a good offense. Not sure why people can't comprehend that a great defenseman is one that can control play. What is the point of a player who can take the puck away, but can't do anything with it?
Do you think you can have a team full of Daneykos and actually win a game?
You can't have a defenseman running around like a chicken with his head cut off in his own end either. Nobody is asking Gelinas to be a defensive defensemen. But if he wants to be a top four defenseman in this league he's going to have to learn how to play defense.
Feed Me A Stray Cat
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Agreed. Erik Karlsson is probably net positive defensively given how much he influences possession, despite looking poor in his own end.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
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you can't say Zidlicky is the #2 most valuable DMan and then in the next breath talk about how Gelinas has no value and stinks. can't have it both ways.
Feed Me A Stray Cat
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Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
Benedict Parisechuk
Army of Pandolfo's
NJDevs26
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Everyone we sign to a tryout's going to make the team if you go by the posts here
Benedict Parisechuk
Army of Pandolfo's
Everyone we sign to a tryout's going to make the team if you go by the posts here
I would think Kaberle has a better chance but if Mamashev can knock Harrold out of here, then I'm all for it but does anybody really see Pete getting rid of his son?
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MartyOwns
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I'd be surprised if people read this post and then argued against it. having a well rounded defenseman with a bomb of a shot should be the goal here. not sure that's debateable?
fwiw, I think his first few games he was better defensively than the last few games he played. I think there was a lot of pressure put on him, and he tried to do too much...the result was some truly awful defense. the good news is that he has the tools...so he can learn the defensive side. I'm really excited to see albelin's influence on him
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
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That wasn't a stat comment as I knew they were pretty close in that regard. Zids has more offensive flare, and a rocket shot just like Gelinas. I'm not saying Gelinas isn't valuable and clearly he is part of the future but right now Zidlicky is a much better offensive D man. He is a better passer, better skater, better stickhandler, has better vision and has arguably as good a shot as Gelinas.
Officer Rod Farva
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Yeah but Gelinas isn't Erik Karlsson...and I like Gelinas, but he has a ton of work to do.
NJDevs26
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What exactly does Gelinas do to control play offensively? He has a great shot that's it, he's not exactly a puckmover like Rafalski and not the world's fastest skater or best decision-maker. Karlsson does all that so using that as the example is silly.
I don't think Gelinas is a great defenseman. I also didn't compare Karlsson to Gelinas. I was just making an overall point that the board seems to significantly undervalue offense from a defenseman.
Personally I think Pete (and any defensive system coach) can teach Gelinas positioning to make him slightly below average to average in his own end. Now that all depends on what kind of work ethic the kid has as I don't know myself. Gelinas was one of the worse 1 on 1 guys in his own zone I have ever seen. I don't think it takes much to get a NHL defensive player to be average in his own zone with a defensive system, but Gelinas looked really bad last season so he may take some extra time. I am generally very patience with defensive players. I notice the board is very critical year to year with defenseman compared to forward. My theory is a lot of people take a subjective view on their performance compare to a forward where most people just look at their PPG vs the average.
Back to the overall point of people underrating offense from a defenseman.
There are posters here who clearly watch a lot of NJD games who think Merrill was comparable to Zidlicky last year. Personally IMO that is insane as Zidlicky season was arguably better than Greene last year and yet no one on this board would survive here long if they said Merrill >= Greene.
billingtons ghost
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This thread is annoying because of the constituents.
Greene is our best defenseman. Above-average ceiling, and consistently hits it. Rare crap games.
At times, Zidlicky is our best defenseman,(certainly most explosive, risk/reward) because he will have a monster offensive game without meltdowns. Highest ceiling, hits it 60% of the time, occasional penalty/meltdown riddled garbage fests, but is usually pretty solid at both ends.
Gelinas has the 2nd highest ceiling, because he can change the game with one shot, and also shows good offensive sensibilities - enough to be a significant contributor on the offensive side of the puck. I think his defensive zone play is slightly underrated because of some late season games where he was dinged and tired. Defensively, he plays below average #6 dman, but is reasonably consistent at that spot. You need him in games because really could have a huge impact.
Merrill and Larsson both have the 3rd highest offensive ceiling and probably the 2nd highest defensive ceiling after Greene. Merrill played near his potential defensively and added some offensive punch. Larsson we didn't see enough of, but he was consistently good defensively and was decent with breakout passes..
Sal is a borderline #5 defensive Dman at this stage. He was terrible for much of last year, looking significantly worse than Volch most of the time - I guess his locker room intangibles and leadership have to be it until someone takes his spot. He's important to have back there though - to protect the kids, take some of the rough stuff, and be our one physical defenseman.
I can't imagine Komisarek, KHLdude nor Kaberle get a look. I don't think Severson is solid enough to make the leap. Interesting if Helgeson has a good camp. Real interesting if someone like Scarlett or Burlon come out of nowhere and surprise, but I'm thinking those guys might end up career AHLers at this point...
Greene is our best defenseman. Above-average ceiling, and consistently hits it. Rare crap games.
At times, Zidlicky is our best defenseman,(certainly most explosive, risk/reward) because he will have a monster offensive game without meltdowns. Highest ceiling, hits it 60% of the time, occasional penalty/meltdown riddled garbage fests, but is usually pretty solid at both ends.
Gelinas has the 2nd highest ceiling, because he can change the game with one shot, and also shows good offensive sensibilities - enough to be a significant contributor on the offensive side of the puck. I think his defensive zone play is slightly underrated because of some late season games where he was dinged and tired. Defensively, he plays below average #6 dman, but is reasonably consistent at that spot. You need him in games because really could have a huge impact.
Merrill and Larsson both have the 3rd highest offensive ceiling and probably the 2nd highest defensive ceiling after Greene. Merrill played near his potential defensively and added some offensive punch. Larsson we didn't see enough of, but he was consistently good defensively and was decent with breakout passes..
Sal is a borderline #5 defensive Dman at this stage. He was terrible for much of last year, looking significantly worse than Volch most of the time - I guess his locker room intangibles and leadership have to be it until someone takes his spot. He's important to have back there though - to protect the kids, take some of the rough stuff, and be our one physical defenseman.
I can't imagine Komisarek, KHLdude nor Kaberle get a look. I don't think Severson is solid enough to make the leap. Interesting if Helgeson has a good camp. Real interesting if someone like Scarlett or Burlon come out of nowhere and surprise, but I'm thinking those guys might end up career AHLers at this point...
JimEIV
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Zidlicky also carries the puck better than any devil. His passing is crisp, probably one of, if not the best on the team and his vision is excellent. 4on4 he is downright dangerous but even at 5v5 he has an ability to back off defenders with speed through the neutral zone...
Defensively he is vulnerable to lapses but last season there seem to be fewer of them.
He was pretty much the #2 all season last year and he did a very good job overall. Zidlicky brings a tremendous amount to the table.
I would even listen to an argument that he was better than Greene, even though he was not, I would still listen....Greene did ALL of the heavy lifting last season.
Defensively he is vulnerable to lapses but last season there seem to be fewer of them.
He was pretty much the #2 all season last year and he did a very good job overall. Zidlicky brings a tremendous amount to the table.
I would even listen to an argument that he was better than Greene, even though he was not, I would still listen....Greene did ALL of the heavy lifting last season.
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