Post-Game Talk: Devils lose again... this time to the Leafs 4-2.

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Sir Fenwick Corsi

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Dec 29, 2010
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****. This. ****. You can analyze all the stats, critique the roster up and down 10 times over, this is just a bad team right now. They have found pretty much every conceivable way to lose over these last 3 weeks. That's what bad teams do. Sure, they have looked better at times during these last 3 losses, but that's nothing to be proud of. They're playing **** mediocre teams. If you're serious about winning and being a good team, Winnipeg, Buffalo, Toronto, well these are exactly the types of teams you don't want to be lumped with. Even as flawed as the Devils are right now, they still managed to outplay each of these teams, yet they lost every single game. This is a bad team.

Last year, I never got too down about this team during the season, especially the first half of the year when they were finding their way. They showed early on that they had a good plan in place and the right people playing for the team. All they needed was a few tweaks to get the most out of them and it nearly paid off. But this an entirely different animal this year.

I understand that they're is banged up, and it's hurting them big time. After what has gone down these last few weeks, I'm sure people will think twice about knocking Zubrus even if he isn't producing. His absence is huge in all of this because the dude just gets it. He's such a well rounded player and he's one of those guys that's doing all the right things that you never really see during the game when he doesn't have the puck. But here is the thing. Even with Zubrus being hurt, what we are seeing wouldn't be happening if this team wasn't flawed.

The defense and the goaltending is constantly getting called out here, however, the biggest issue with this team (and it's not even close) is how insanely thin they are at forward. This is essentially a 2 1/2 line team right now and to make matters worse, NONE of the top players are producing. None of them. 6 points for Zajac in 22 games? Kovy with a handful of even strength points 22 games in? In what world is this unacceptable?

Lou has his work cut out for him. That much is for sure, but only in the sense if this team wants to be a serious player during the post season. Right now they're not a legit threat to win anything, but they should certainly be able to get to the dance if they can get healthy and most importantly, their best players start performing like their best players. Until that happens, they'll continue to swim in this river of **** that they have found themselves in. It's getting ugly real fast.
 
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FirmestPiano

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May 22, 2011
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For those of you who insist that this is the worst group of forwards we have had in years, please explain to me how these lineups look significantly better than what we currently have:

1/1/10
Zach Parise - Travis Zajac - Niclas Bergfors
Brian Rolston - Rob Neidermayer - Patrik Elias
Jay Pandolfo - Dean McAmmond - Jamie Langenbrunner
Andrew Peters - Rod Pelley - Vladimir Zharkov

3/5/10 (fully healthy lineup)
Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Kovalchuk - Zubrus - Elias
Rolston - Niedmybrother - Clarkson
Pandolfo - McAmmond - Zharkov

10/8/10 (fully healthy lineup - this one is actually pretty good; too bad they still played like **** for two months)
Zach Parise (9) | Travis Zajac (19) | Ilya Kovalchuk (17)
Patrik Elias (26) | Jason Arnott (25) | Jamie Langenbrunner (15)
Brian Rolston (12) | Danius Zubrus (8) | David Clarkson (23)
Pierre LeBlond (22) | Rod Pelley (10)

2/3/11 (Parise out with injury)
Kovalchuk-Zajac-Tedenby
Rolston-Elias-Zubrus
Zharkov-Arnott-Palmieri
Pelley-Sestito-Clarkson

10/22/11
Zach Parise-Patrik Elias-Petr Sykora
Ilya Kovalchuk-Dainius Zubrus-Nick Palmieri
Mattias Tedenby-Adam Henrique-David Clarkson
Rod Pelley-Brad Mills-Cam Janssen

YES! Thank you my man. This years forward corps is nowhere near our worst. Just a lot of overreacting going on. Some is justified, but most of it is not.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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For those of you who insist that this is the worst group of forwards we have had in years, please explain to me how these lineups look significantly better than what we currently have:

1/1/10
Zach Parise - Travis Zajac - Niclas Bergfors
Brian Rolston - Rob Neidermayer - Patrik Elias
Jay Pandolfo - Dean McAmmond - Jamie Langenbrunner
Andrew Peters - Rod Pelley - Vladimir Zharkov

3/5/10 (fully healthy lineup)
Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Kovalchuk - Zubrus - Elias
Rolston - Niedmybrother - Clarkson
Pandolfo - McAmmond - Zharkov

10/8/10 (fully healthy lineup - this one is actually pretty good; too bad they still played like **** for two months)
Zach Parise (9) | Travis Zajac (19) | Ilya Kovalchuk (17)
Patrik Elias (26) | Jason Arnott (25) | Jamie Langenbrunner (15)
Brian Rolston (12) | Danius Zubrus (8) | David Clarkson (23)
Pierre LeBlond (22) | Rod Pelley (10)

2/3/11 (Parise out with injury)
Kovalchuk-Zajac-Tedenby
Rolston-Elias-Zubrus
Zharkov-Arnott-Palmieri
Pelley-Sestito-Clarkson

10/22/11
Zach Parise-Patrik Elias-Petr Sykora
Ilya Kovalchuk-Dainius Zubrus-Nick Palmieri
Mattias Tedenby-Adam Henrique-David Clarkson
Rod Pelley-Brad Mills-Cam Janssen

There is absolutely no way three of those lineups are worse than the current lineup. 3/5/10 and 10/8/10 is a good top six with 'meh' third/fourth lines. Our current lineup is a meh - at best - top nine with a great fourth line. 10/22/11 isn't bad considering Henrique and 30-goal scorer Clarkson are on the 'third' line, and Sykora was a 20-goal scorer last year. The 1/1/10 lineup is weaker down the middle (though you wouldn't know it with Zajac/Henrique's lack of production this year) and has slightly more depth at wing, that's the only comparable one. I don't really count the one with Parise out, when we were playing younger guys in a still long-shot of a season.

Thank goodness the people who actually make the decisions don't think along the same lines as many posters here. Some absolutely insane "solutions" being thrown around in here. Panic panic panic.

I don't disagree some things are still off the wall (fewer and fewer as the losing streak increases), but they're supposed to sit around and do nothing while they lose game after game in a short season? 2-7-2 against the 'soft' part of our schedule, and counting.
 
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Devils Dominion

Now we Plummet
Feb 16, 2007
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Oates ran a great power play in Tampa. Shaw did the same in San Jose. Food for thought.

Shaw had Boyle to run the PP and Thornton down low along with Marleau.

Here, he does not have anyone that can run the PP well.

He should know that and make adjustments.
He has not at all.
 

Brooklyndevil

Registered User
Jun 24, 2005
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Are the Devils planning to tank so they can draft Seth Jones in their building? They're sure giving a pretty good impression and we sure could use him. Anyway, some bonehead plays and missed opportunities; Poni and Elias are two I can’t seem to get out of my head. Also, nice guy and all, the Moose is killing us right now. Give the Kinkaid kid a shot, what to we have to lose, no pun intended.
 

Devils Dominion

Now we Plummet
Feb 16, 2007
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I didn't watch the third, but the Devils definitely outplayed the Leafs in the 1st and 2nd.

They absolutely did.
My thought in the 2nd after Zids 2nd goal was we need to get a 2-goal cushion going in to the 3rd.
This way if they let in a crap early goal they will still play with the lead and settle down.
They played more than 1-goal better than Toronto after two.

Then Patrik's unforced turnover basically right away was the death nail.
The shift before his blunder the team struggled again to get the puck out of their zone. They pass up easy clears for cute passes and that has to stop.
 

guitarguyvic

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
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There is absolutely no way three of those lineups are worse than the current lineup. 3/5/10 and 10/8/10 is a good top six with 'meh' third/fourth lines. Our current lineup is a meh - at best - top nine with a great fourth line. 10/22/11 isn't bad considering Henrique and 30-goal scorer Clarkson are on the 'third' line, and Sykora was a 20-goal scorer last year. The 1/1/10 lineup is weaker down the middle (though you wouldn't know it with Zajac/Henrique's lack of production this year) and has slightly more depth at wing, that's the only comparable one. I don't really count the one with Parise out, when we were playing younger guys in a still long-shot of a season.

I completely disagree. I look at our current group and I see only 2 forwards who have little potential to produce offense on a consistent basis. Everyone else, with the exception of cbgb, is producing way below expectations. That's not a bad forward group, it is an underachieving one. When you look at those past lineups I posted, half the forwards have almost no potential to put up offense.
 

The Joker

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Feb 25, 2011
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I didn't watch the third, but the Devils definitely outplayed the Leafs in the 1st and 2nd.

They did. That's actually the problem. Not that we're outplaying them, we don't create enough scoring chances or can't finish. This could be because we're struggling, or we just don't create enough with our style of play. If our forward group is actually deeper than the last years, there must be something wrong with our game. Take a look at the Elias - Zajac - Clarkson line. They pin their opponents in their zone for a very long period of time, just to create a weak shot from the point or a contested shot in the high slot. They cycle game really doesn't work for us right now.
 

Feed Me A Stray Cat

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Mar 27, 2005
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They did. That's actually the problem. Not that we're outplaying them, we don't create enough scoring chances or can't finish. This could be because we're struggling, or we just don't create enough with our style of play. If our forward group is actually deeper than the last years, there must be something wrong with our game. Take a look at the Elias - Zajac - Clarkson line. They pin their opponents in their zone for a very long period of time, just to create a weak shot from the point or a contested shot in the high slot. They cycle game really doesn't work for us right now.

The Devils created a fair amount of chances. Hit a couple posts. Shot a couple pucks wide.

The cycle game is working, and the Devils need to do more of it. The shots will start finding their way in again soon enough.

I know losing sucks, but if you objectively analyze last night, at least the first two periods of it, there's really nothing to be upset about other than bounces not going our way.
 

Richer's Ghost

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Apr 19, 2007
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Thank goodness the people who actually make the decisions don't think along the same lines as many posters here. Some absolutely insane "solutions" being thrown around in here. Panic panic panic.

badtime_zps71f331c1.jpg


nothing new.
 

The Joker

Registered User
Feb 25, 2011
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The Devils created a fair amount of chances. Hit a couple posts. Shot a couple pucks wide.

The cycle game is working, and the Devils need to do more of it. The shots will start finding their way in again soon enough.

I know losing sucks, but if you objectively analyze last night, at least the first two periods of it, there's really nothing to be upset about other than bounces not going our way.

What I wanted to say is that the cycle obviously works, especially for that line, but too often it ends with a weak shot or actually a turnover. We spend so much time in their zone without actually creating a dangerous play. We have to mix it up. We always end up giving the puck to the blue line. Make some plays down low, I can't remember one play where we throw a dangerous pass in front of the net for a tip-in which resulted from the cycle. I think they're too predictable with their game.

Like I said, I agree that they dominated play in the first and second. I just want to analyze why we just can't score. Sure, some of it was bad puck luck, but that doesn't justify why we aren't able to score more than two goals a game. There is something wrong with our finish.
 

guitarguyvic

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
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They did. That's actually the problem. Not that we're outplaying them, we don't create enough scoring chances or can't finish. This could be because we're struggling, or we just don't create enough with our style of play. If our forward group is actually deeper than the last years, there must be something wrong with our game. Take a look at the Elias - Zajac - Clarkson line. They pin their opponents in their zone for a very long period of time, just to create a weak shot from the point or a contested shot in the high slot. They cycle game really doesn't work for us right now.

This is very true. I noticed it during the finals last season too. Puck possession per se has not been the problem generating good scoring chances from that puck possession has been.
 

Feed Me A Stray Cat

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Mar 27, 2005
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What I wanted to say is that the cycle obviously works, especially for that line, but too often it ends with a weak shot or actually a turnover. We spend so much time in their zone without actually creating a dangerous play. We have to mix it up. We always end up giving the puck to the blue line. Make some plays down low, I can't remember one play where we throw a dangerous pass in front of the net for a tip-in which resulted from the cycle. I think they're too predictable with their game.

Like I said, I agree that they dominated play in the first and second. I just want to analyze why we just can't score. Sure, some of it was bad puck luck, but that doesn't justify why we aren't able to score more than two goals a game. There is something wrong with our finish.

The Devils were successful in the playoffs with this very strategy.

The issue is that when you're not getting the bounces, it gets frustrating. But trust in the process. To be honest, with the quality of our forwards, we can't really expect to create fancy offensive plays.
 

The Joker

Registered User
Feb 25, 2011
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The Devils were successful in the playoffs with this very strategy.

The issue is that when you're not getting the bounces, it gets frustrating. But trust in the process. To be honest, with the quality of our forwards, we can't really expect to create fancy offensive plays.

I really want to agree with you and I don't want to change strategy whatsoever. I'm just noticing that when you are not creating enough on the cycle, you have to be a little bit more creative. Look at the Carter - Zidlicky goal. That was hustle and creativity which can help us getting out of this slump. We actually scored a goal after a takeaway and one after a faceoff, none after the cycle. Don't change the strategy, keep cycling the puck, have puck posession - but mix it up a little bit and become a little bit more unpredictable. Show more heart and hustle, that's what I'd like to see tonight. Because it's too late here to watch loss after loss :laugh: I was furious last night :laugh:
 

Feed Me A Stray Cat

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Mar 27, 2005
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I really want to agree with you and I don't want to change strategy whatsoever. I'm just noticing that when you are not creating enough on the cycle, you have to be a little bit more creative. Look at the Carter - Zidlicky goal. That was hustle and creativity which can help us getting out of this slump. We actually scored a goal after a takeaway and one after a faceoff, none after the cycle. Don't change the strategy, keep cycling the puck, have puck posession - but mix it up a little bit and become a little bit more unpredictable. Show more heart and hustle, that's what I'd like to see tonight. Because it's too late here to watch loss after loss :laugh: I was furious last night :laugh:

That was a great goal, and I'd love to have more goals like that, but let's be realistic - those plays don't happen very often. Toronto's fourth line is garbage and botched that one, and Carter / Zidlicky capitalized.

The majority of the game is played off the cycle, not off the rush.
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
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There are a lot of guys on this team that aren't winning the small battles consistently enough.

There are so many people to point fingers at in this regard but Gionta, Ponikarovsky, Zajac, and to a lesser extent Henrique simply aren't effective enough right now...

Gionta to me is a major issue. He is still buzzing around, but he is not winning the battles like he did last year and his play has neutered that line that has been so effective in the past. Zajac is a similar situation but with him the problem becomes magnified because any line he is on is expected produce significant offense.

I'm not sure what is going on but so many players look a step or two off. These players look distracted to me, I have no reason to say that but that's what it looks like to me.
 

Feed Me A Stray Cat

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Mar 27, 2005
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Makes sense. The Devils easily out chanced the Leafs last night.

I really don't think it has much to do with "working the corners better" and "winning the battles." The Devils were winning the battles. They were getting a lot of shots, some good quality ones. The puck wasn't going in. Hedberg played poorly, and Elias had a brain fart. It's not much more complicated than that.

If the Devils weren't winning the battles, why did they have the territorial advantage for most of the game?
 

MartyOwns

thank you shero
Apr 1, 2007
24,672
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I wish there was a really simple move we could make to generate more offense. like, maybe moving loki to defense, or poni to center, or kovy to goalie. I wish we could try something like that for one ****ing game. I mean, I know we can't, because the ramifications would be terrible. wouldn't want to start losing games.

with all that said, kovy did have 2 good legitimate chances (that I saw, anyway) from the right side. the game wasn't as bad as it looked. but no matter how good kovy is on the right (and he's downright decent) we're missing out on his POTENTIAL from the left. I know, I know. vision, backhanded, slamming brakes, he goes left anyway..etc. hey just a thought- since having 2 left wingers is working so well and everyone loves it so much, maybe the center can go down the left, too? how about if everyone sits on the left side of the arena? I think the vision would improve. how about kovy starts on RW, moves to center bringing the puck up, then the center goes to RW in the offensive zone and the RW buys a pretzel in the left side of the arena? the possibilities are endless!
 

goin2hell

Alberta Beef.
Dec 8, 2004
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Kovy looks lost out there IMO. He needs to find some chemistry with someone on this team. Maybe try Elias with him and Lokti?
 
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