Post-Game Talk: Devils drop another one - lose 3-1 to Winnipeg

[NJDevs26]

Haha that is nice. I definitely remember all the bench Marty for Moose crap. That has all vanished this week.

I didn't think it was still prevalent late in the season but it was definitely there in the first half through January at least. It was definitely there earlier this year too when people wanted a split rotation because Moose had set the world on fire in his first three starts

 

[Blender]

I wouldn't be opposed to giving Kinkaid a start on Saturday or Monday, just to see how we plays. Won't happen though.

 

[apice3*]

Hedberg's game has fallen off a cliff the last 3 weeks or so.

 

[NJDevilFan25]

Clarky needs to start attacking the net, and Moose needs to have a couple of good games to get some confidence under his belt. Devils are a solid squad, with major upside potential. I'm expecting a big spark from some unexpected names within the next few games to get them going again.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Moose just needs to stay in his net, and not flop around. Problem solved.

 

[AfroThunder396]

See here's the thing: Moose's stats are good BECAUSE he plays so few games. When he has to play multiple games in a row he gets exposed.

People like to assume that if you double his workload his stats will remain constant, and that's not how it works. We're all so spoiled because Marty is a once-in-a-lifetime athletic freak of nature, and we assume all other goalies thrive on huge numbers of starts the way he does. When in reality, Marty is the exception, not the rule.

I love Moose to death, I'm not trying to trash him at all, but there's a reason he's a back up and not a starter.

As much as I hate to say it, Don Cherry was absolutely right when he talked about Cory Schneider getting to be "the hero" all the time when he was a back-up but sputtering when he has to carry the workload. It's a completely different gig.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Are the bolded really unfair, or were they at the time all things considered?

I mean as far as the D goes, in March last year you're talking about Larsson either being hurt or ineffective when he came back, Harrold a giant unknown at that point (he only became a revelation late in the season and in the playoffs) and Tallinder being out for two months and counting.

They still weren't an elite team until after the first round of the playoffs and having a healthy Zajac. If Madden scored in OT of Game 7 the narrative around the team all summer and now is COMPLETELY different though.

And the not showing up for bottom feeders has been a problem on and off for years.

It's a thin line between being an "elite" team and being completely out of the playoff picture. That is sort of my point. These kinds of blanket statements are generally silly, especially for a team that has in fact had success year in and year out for 20 years.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Moose just needs to stay in his net, and not flop around. Problem solved.

Ya it has become far to common past few games and has really hurt us. Really hope Marty is ready for Monday.

We also are missing Marty's puck handling. It really helps the breakout. It always looks way worse with Moose in net. Marty helps our slow D out.

 

[Bleedred]

See here's the thing: Moose's stats are good BECAUSE he plays so few games. When he has to play multiple games in a row he gets exposed.

People like to assume that if you double his workload his stats will remain constant, and that's not how it works. We're all so spoiled because Marty is a once-in-a-lifetime athletic freak of nature, and we assume all other goalies thrive on huge numbers of starts the way he does. When in reality, Marty is the exception, not the rule.

I love Moose to death, I'm not trying to trash him at all, but there's a reason he's a back up and not a starter.

As much as I hate to say it, Don Cherry was absolutely right when he talked about Cory Schneider getting to be "the hero" all the time when he was a back-up but sputtering when he has to carry the workload. It's a completely different gig.

Moose is best suited to come off the bench, and play a good game every week. Marty is best suited to play most of the games (Not the 76+ games anymore though)

When Marty doesn't play often he looks bad. When Moose plays too often he looks bad. Yet people say Moose is better than Marty because Moose had a better save percentage last year, and the year before. If Moose had played as many games as Marty last year then Moose has a lower overall save percentage than Marty. I would almost bet money on it.

All the people who think they need to split starts were not right. I think this is more fact than opinion. Now I'm afraid of what Marty looks like after this setback.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Eh, Hedberg hasn't been that bad. He's flopped around on a couple of goals and kinda flubbed some pucks, but I can't honetsly say that he's costing us games. The team is just not playing all that well in front of him. Marty could have really helped in terms of breaking up the forecheck and pushing the puck up the ice, but Im not sure how much better he woud have handled the defensive breakdowns that have been happening in front of Hedberg. That second goal last night, well that play should have never been allowed to happen in the first place. Under any circumstances. Flop or not, that's just a **** job by the team in front of Moose.

 

[Bleedred]

Eh, Hedberg hasn't been tha bad. He's flopped around on a couple of goals and kinda flubbed some pucks, but I can't honetsly say that he's costing us games. The team is just not playing all that well in front of him. Marty could have really helped in terms of breaking up the forecheck and pushing the puck up the ice, but Im not sure how much better he woud have handled the defenseive breakdowns that have been happening in front of Hedberg. That second goal last night, well that play should have never been allowed to happen in the first place. Under any circumstances. Flp or not, that's just a **** job by the team in front of Moose.

Hedberg hasn't really cost us games. Maybe if Marty was on had he started Sunday night we could have taken that clunker to OT. We still probably lose last night, and against the Caps. Can't blame Moose for Sunday because it is what it is. He's a career backup, and he's not conditioned to play games two days in a row. He didn't expect to get the start until minutes before game time.

This just shows that Moose is not starting goalie material, or a ''Start half the games'' goalie like some people thought. Last year he was amazing right after Marty got hurt, and then he looked average by the second week. It all comes down to offense. That's on Lou/Hucksterbeek/management for assembling the team the way it is with Matteau on the 1st line, and other such nonsense we've seen. Don't know who to blame for sure, but it's an upstairs issue. At the same time we have a team that should be capable of scoring more than 1 goal against the 3 GAA Winnipeg Jets.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Hedberg hasn't really cost us games. Maybe if Marty was on had he started Sunday night we could have taken that clunker to OT. We still probably lose last night, and against the Caps. Can't blame Moose for Sunday because it is what it is. He's a career backup, and he's not conditioned to play games two days in a row. He didn't expect to get the start until minutes before game time.

This just shows that Moose is not starting goalie material, or a ''Start half the games'' goalie like some people thought. Last year he was amazing right after Marty got hurt, and then he looked average by the second week. It all comes down to offense. That's on Lou/Hucksterbeek/management for assembling the team the way it is with Matteau on the 1st line, and other such nonsense we've seen. Don't know who to blame for sure, but it's an upstairs issue. At the same time we have a team that should be capable of scoring more than 1 goal against the 3 GAA Winnipeg Jets.

I really think you are overstating this here and it is not Matteau fault, or the way the 1st line is constructed's fault that Zajac and Henrique are slumping. It was not the plan and you know this for Matteau to be on the first line right now. It wasn't the plan for Poni to have left either, but it happened. Free agent market was thin and was going into a lockout, Doan was not coming East, you can hindsight Semin all you want, but at 7 million even for a year you have to have a good idea he would work in this system.

The lack of one forward is not why we are losing right now, and to say otherwise is way overstating it. The entire top 6 is slumping, one forward would not lift or carry all our scoring.

Yes we need another forward for a potentially deep playoff run, but in the regular season right now there is enough talent on this team to win games and score goals. They are not because they are all slumping and playing like it. Lack of confidence, aggressiveness, loads of shots wide. Henrique, Zajac, Kovy, they are all offensively better then this and will break out.

Let us not overstate the problem, guys are in a bad slump, no magical trade or signing will fix it, it has to be fixed internally and that ALL falls on the coaching staff and on the players. It sucks, hopefully they break out of it sooner rather then later. Lets spend more time on why these guys are slumping so hard. Where did Henrique's nice hands go? What the hell is wrong with Zajac because he seems off no matter who he plays with.

Maybe Clarkson's wrist is his problem.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Hedberg hasn't really cost us games. Maybe if Marty was on had he started Sunday night we could have taken that clunker to OT. We still probably lose last night, and against the Caps. Can't blame Moose for Sunday because it is what it is. He's a career backup, and he's not conditioned to play games two days in a row. He didn't expect to get the start until minutes before game time.

This just shows that Moose is not starting goalie material, or a ''Start half the games'' goalie like some people thought. Last year he was amazing right after Marty got hurt, and then he looked average by the second week. It all comes down to offense. That's on Lou/Hucksterbeek/management for assembling the team the way it is with Matteau on the 1st line, and other such nonsense we've seen. Don't know who to blame for sure, but it's an upstairs issue. At the same time we have a team that should be capable of scoring more than 1 goal against the 3 GAA Winnipeg Jets.

I think it has more to do with the team being banged up and some really cold streaks by certain players. Losing Parise in the summer delivered a big blow to the team's depth and now you add on the absence of Zubrus, an injured Clarkson, a non-producing Zajac and certain younger players not meeting expectations, well it all adds up to what you see. There is so much *****ing going on about our defense but what else can we expect from them? The Devils can't forecheck as effectively and they're not possessing the puck as much as they would like. That all adds up to more time in your own zone and less scoring. Any defense is going to look worse under those circumstances and it's also why goaltending is so far down on my list of concerns. Until they fix the major issues, doesn't matter how great your goaltending is, it's still going to be awfully hard to win many games. But I do feel that they took a step in the right direction last night. Playing well against the Jets really shouldn't be a barometer that they want to set for themselves, but you have to start somewhere I guess.

 

[Bleedred]

Why not put Poni up front with Loktionov and Kovy, Eddy?

Poni has assisted on a bunch of Loktionov's points including last night's goal. I don't see what Matteau brings to that top line. Last time they played he missed about 5 passes to Kovy/Zajac, and they missed another 5 his way that he couldn't catch. He's only gonna be benched after he exceeds 10 minutes anyway.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think it has more to do with the team being banged up and some really cold streaks by certain players. Losing Parise in the summer delivered a big blow to the team's depth and now you add on the absence of Zubrus, an injured Clarkson, a non-producing Zajac and certain younger players not meeting expectations, well it all adds up to what you see. There is so much *****ing going on about our defense but what else can we expect. The Devils can't forecheck as effectively and they're not possessing the puck as much as they would like. That all adds up to more time in your own zone and less scoring. That's why goaltending is so far down on my list of concerns. Until they fix the major issues, doesn't matter how great your goaltending is, it's still going to be awfully hard to win many games. But I do feel that they took a step in the right direction last night. Playing well against the Jets really shouldn't be a barometer that they want to set for themselves, but you have to start somewhere I guess.

When you are slumping anything is a good barometer and the Jets are hot right now so to just bash them down as nobodies is unfair. We we are playing well it is a team we should beat, but asking a slumping team to beat a hot team is hard in the NHL no matter how you slice it.

All the offensive concerns have to be fixed internally by the coaches and the players. Lou can't make them hit the net. How many scoring chances were left on the ice because of missed shots? How many scoring chances never happened because we over pass because everyone seems afraid to shoot. Perfect example was that power play to end the 1st I think. 8 seconds left, Zids has the puck at the point. Why did he force a weak pass instead of putting the damn puck on net? Odds are we don't score either way, but no reason not to shoot.

I do think we miss Marty's puck handling right now. He helps the break out, limits pressure in our end and gives us a chance to put more on them. Moose gives us none of that forcing our slow D to have to do it.

CBGB had a strong game against the Flyers before Carter went down so lets see if they can add a little lift energy wise if nothing else. Still comes down to our centers not named Loki needing to get their acts together.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Why not put Poni up front with Loktionov and Kovy, Eddy?

Poni has assisted on a bunch of Loktionov's points including last night's goal. I don't see what Matteau brings to that top line. Last time they played he missed about 5 passes to Kovy/Zajac, and they missed another 5 his way that he couldn't catch. He's only gonna be benched after he exceeds 10 minutes anyway.

Because then you have what is then a 4th line of Matteau-Henrique-Butler, and we have the problem you had yesterday with CBGB being the 3rd line. With Poni-Henrique-Butler you can roll 4 lines. He has not been that bad overall with them that it is some sort of liability to play him there. Zubs is hurt and a trade isn't going to happen over night. Work with what you have

 

[Bleedred]

Because then you have what is then a 4th line of Matteau-Henrique-Butler, and we have the problem you had yesterday with CBGB being the 3rd line. With Poni-Henrique-Butler you can roll 4 lines. He has not been that bad overall with them that it is some sort of liability to play him there. Zubs is hurt and a trade isn't going to happen over night. Work with what you have

I think a Matteau-Henrique-Butler line looks pretty good. It would be a 3rd line I'd bet though CBGB would probably get more minutes than Butler, and Matteau maybe.

Matteau isn't a liability, but he doesn't bring much offense. People will be asking ''Well what the **** Kovy why can't he produce at even strength anymore?'' Just saying.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think a Matteau-Henrique-Butler line looks pretty good. It would be a 3rd line I'd bet though CBGB would probably get more minutes than Butler, and Matteau maybe.

Matteau isn't a liability, but he doesn't bring much offense. People will be asking ''Well what the **** Kovy why can't he produce at even strength anymore?'' Just saying.

I am pretty sure that line with Zajac has produced this year. He was bad in the game you mentioned but he looked strong last night on a very weak line, spread the offense around so the 3rd line can actually play more minutes then CBGB, not really a 3rd line if your 4th line plays more.

It isn't ideal, but Henrique is wasted on a line with Matteau and Butler. At least with Poni he might get more chances to break his slump, and the 1st line has a big body who can hopefully help hold the zone and forecheck for Loki and Kovy to do the pretty stuff. We miss Zubs, but trades don't just happen usually and you work with what you got

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

When you are slumping anything is a good barometer and the Jets are hot right now so to just bash them down as nobodies is unfair. We we are playing well it is a team we should beat, but asking a slumping team to beat a hot team is hard in the NHL no matter how you slice it.

All the offensive concerns have to be fixed internally by the coaches and the players. Lou can't make them hit the net. How many scoring chances were left on the ice because of missed shots? How many scoring chances never happened because we over pass because everyone seems afraid to shoot. Perfect example was that power play to end the 1st I think. 8 seconds left, Zids has the puck at the point. Why did he force a weak pass instead of putting the damn puck on net? Odds are we don't score either way, but no reason not to shoot.

I do think we miss Marty's puck handling right now. He helps the break out, limits pressure in our end and gives us a chance to put more on them. Moose gives us none of that forcing our slow D to have to do it.

CBGB had a strong game against the Flyers before Carter went down so lets see if they can add a little lift energy wise if nothing else. Still comes down to our centers not named Loki needing to get their acts together.

The Jets are hot right now, but to me, and that's not a quality team imo. I was maybe a little harsh on them last night. I'm not saying they're dog ****, but overall, a slumping Devils team probably should have beaten a hot Jets team last night. These last two games were just really frustrating. I expected a lot more from them and figured the Jets would be a good tonic for them but they **** the bed in both games.

And yes, the Devils do miss Marty's puck handling. Big time.

 

[NJDevs26]

Plus teams usually struggle the first game back after a long road trip. The Jets were prime for a letdown, it seemed as if they were playing prevent defense for much of the night and we still couldn't take advantage. That was probably the most disturbing thing about the loss though yes they did play better than in the last few games.