Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I mean, they still have Rantenen long term - not a great example.

And he's looked like putrid ass since he left Colorado. People bitch here about Meier daily, if he got Rantanen you'd all shit your pants

 

[dgibb10]

I mean, they still have Rantenen long term - not a great example.

It's a fine example.

They have rantanen on an expensive long term deal now.

Justifying rental purchases with extensions. The canes bought 1 year of control of rantanen, which they then sold to dallas.

Acting like the Rantanen who went to dallas is somehow different than the Rantanen who went to carolina is silly.

 

[Devils731]

I have a feeling Markstrom steals one for us to make up for yesterday. Plus we are due for a win in that damn arena. Then Friday will be it

One game at a time.

You gotta win game 5 to bounce back. You win game 6 because you’re home and they’re getting nervous. You win game 7 because why the F not?

It’s not where my betting money would go but the greatest comebacks can only happen from the deepest holes.

 

[NJDfan86]

And he's looked like putrid ass since he left Colorado. People bitch here about Meier daily, if he got Rantanen you'd all shit your pants

lol might want to wait for more than half a year before make any grand proclamations.

 

[JrFischer54]

It's not being starved, this exact thing happened with Capitals youth last year. Guys like McMichael, Sandin, Protas all had good playoff series v the Rags last year and they all EXPLODED this year granted some on shooting benders that might not be sustainable but they all developed better because of how they used the playoffs to get better for the following regular season. Why can't Nemec do the same?

i hope it is and want it to be at minimum its increasing his trade value. i'm not going to dump hamilton though until for sure nemec shows he can handle it during a full season grind. defense wasn't a big problem this season dont make it one next year if you dont have to

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

lol might want to wait for more than half a year before make any grand proclamations.

He was mediocre without MacK in Colorado as well.

 

[dgibb10]

Correct, you'd use Dougie's money on the forward side since the D is pretty much set for next year as is.

And then longer term beyond that? Unless you expected these forwards to all come with term that conviently ends exactly when you want?

And you'll be right back in the same spot in 2 years. This offseason, with a massive cap surge and a really bad UFA crop, is NOT the time to be cleaning house and going on a spending spree.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

i hope it is and want it to be at minimum its increasing his trade value. i'm not going to dump hamilton though until for sure nemec shows he can handle it during a full season grind. defense wasn't a big problem this season dont make it one next year if you dont have to

Nemec would play 3RD regardless, you're not getting rid of Hamliton for the sake of it. You're doing it because you possibly have a contract with low value AAV wise that will almost give you similar play to Dougie. Then you use Dougie's savings up front to fix the disaster of a forward group.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

And then longer term beyond that? Unless you expected these forwards to all come with term that conviently ends exactly when you want?

And you'll be right back in the same spot in 2 years. This offseason, with a massive cap surge and a really bad UFA crop, is NOT the time to be cleaning house and going on a spending spree.

Doesn't have to be UFA necessarily and almost hope it isn't. Fitz is shrewd on trades, maybe another Toffoli type trade happens. We don't know who will and won't be available. I'll say this though, there will be guys in UFA who would love to ride shotgun next to Jack and Bratt for a few years to get their counting stats up.

 

[dgibb10]

Nemec would play 3RD regardless, you're not getting rid of Hamliton for the sake of it. You're doing it because you possibly have a contract with low value AAV wise that will almost give you similar play to Dougie. Then you use Dougie's savings up front to fix the disaster of a forward group.

They do not provide anything similar.

I think you are (as always) severly underestimating the impact losing dougie will have on our PP next year.

 

[NJDfan86]

It's a fine example.

They have rantanen on an expensive long term deal now.

Justifying rental purchases with extensions. The canes bought 1 year of control of rantanen, which they then sold to dallas.

Acting like the Rantanen who went to dallas is somehow different than the Rantanen who went to carolina is silly.

You asked how people how they would feel if we spent assets to acquire a top player only to be bounced in a competitive series - it should be pointed out that you can quibble with a their strategy and the specifics player but they certainly aren’t walking away empty handed because they have a very good player signed to a contract with cost certainty in a rising cap environment.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

View attachment 1025048
They do not provide anything similar.

I think you are (as always) severly underestimating the impact losing dougie will have on our PP next year.

You let Luke take the PP1 QB spot, sink or swim. Luke is also a way more modern PPQB as is.

 

[dgibb10]

You let Luke take the PP1 QB spot, sink or swim. Luke is also a way more modern PPQB as is.

PP1 isn't the only PP there is.

NJD's PP wasn't only great because of PP1 this year, but how PP2 was great as well. Same with the start of 23-24. The reason that PP started off so well wasn't actually because of PP1. It was because we got 8 goals from Dougie's PP2 in the first 20 games. The next 62? We got 2 of them.

I'd prefer the PP to run through Jack, not Luke.

 

[NjDevsRR]

To get some good vibes back in here. This is a fantastic shot from Friday. Anybody have the wide angle that was originally used? @Better Call Sal ?



Edit: Also may be the loudest that arena has ever been. All the other big postseason moments there had a lot of rival fans in the building.

 

[dgibb10]

Doesn't have to be UFA necessarily and almost hope it isn't. Fitz is shrewd on trades, maybe another Toffoli type trade happens. We don't know who will and won't be available. I'll say this though, there will be guys in UFA who would love to ride shotgun next to Jack and Bratt for a few years to get their counting stats up.

Again.

The bottom 6 even if you do have money available, you should STILL be being prudent with said money. Adding 9 mill in extra spending to the bottom 6 is just gonna lead to bloated contracts you won't like down the line when we need that money again for new signings. (because bottom 6 no PP guys don't put up exciting numbers especially with a defense focused back end and no dougie)

Which means, the dougie money is gonna go to almost certainly 1 top 6 guy.

And I think this is where we have our fundamental disagreement.

Let's use Nikola Ehlers for example. I believe Dougie Hamilton provides significantly more value to our team than a guy like Ehlers would with that money.

I think both of our top duos run similarly no matter who the 3rd is (and stylistic fit matters more than skill). And so sacrificing the PP in dougie (and his EV benefit as well) for what I believe to be minimal if any improvements to the Jack-Bratt line is a bad decision.

From a future perspective, any forward we add is gonna have depressed point totals due to a lack of PP1 time and a lack of backend offense without dougie (his impact on the forwards offense EV is again something I think you're missing), is gonna lead to complaints. I mean we literally see it every day with Meier in here.

And it's gonna lead to lowered league wide value if we ever want to move off the contract to bring in, Quinn Hughes for example (again, see Meier).

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Again.

The bottom 6 even if you do have money available, you should STILL be being prudent with said money. Adding 9 mill in extra spending to the bottom 6 is just gonna lead to bloated contracts you won't like down the line when we need that money again for new signings. (because bottom 6 no PP guys don't put up exciting numbers especially with a defense focused back end and no dougie)

Which means, the dougie money is gonna go to almost certainly 1 top 6 guy.

And I think this is where we have our fundamental disagreement.

Let's use Nikola Ehlers for example. I believe Dougie Hamilton provides significantly more value to our team than a guy like Ehlers would with that money.

I think both of our top duos run similarly no matter who the 3rd is (and stylistic fit matters more than skill). And so sacrificing the PP in dougie (and his EV benefit as well) for what I believe to be minimal if any improvements to the Jack-Bratt line is a bad decision.

From a future perspective, any forward we add is gonna have depressed point totals due to a lack of PP1 time and a lack of backend offense without dougie (his impact on the forwards offense EV is again something I think you're missing), is gonna lead to complaints. I mean we literally see it every day with Meier in here.

And it's gonna lead to lowered league wide value if we ever want to move off the contract to bring in, Quinn Hughes for example (again, see Meier).

Not saying it's fully being used for one guy, they can use it however they deem fit. I would prefer to spread it out over 2 good forwards. Trading Dougie and then blowing it on 1 forward would not make sense unless the guy is elite

 

[dgibb10]

Not saying it's fully being used for one guy, they can use it however they deem fit. I would prefer to spread it out over 2 good forwards. Trading Dougie and then blowing it on 1 forward would not make sense unless the guy is elite

But then the problem is where do you use it.

Hughes, Hischier, Meier, Bratt: 4 (top 6)
Palat, mercer, Noesen, Gritysuk: 4 (middle 6)
Cotter, Haula, Glass: 3 (Bottom 6)

That right there is 11 forwards already, and all of them I'd say are belonging in an NHL lineup. I firmly believe 1, real, good 3C and this forward group looks very very good.

But I don't think clearing large amounts of cap space to get a 3C makes sense (if you have space, you use space, and you likely end up with a deal like compher or copp that you regret down the line as they decline). I believe in buying retention on a guy to MAKE him cheaper.

I don't think 2 good forwards is going to be something you want to try and buy this year tbh. Again, look at the UFA pool (I know, trades exist, but the UFA pool helps dictate the market for trades. If there aren't great UFA options, more teams will try and trade, which means higher prices).

Again, this is why I keep trying to hammer in I don't think it's a good offseason to try and blow the roster up

 

[Edmonton East]

You asked how people how they would feel if we spent assets to acquire a top player only to be bounced in a competitive series - it should be pointed out that you can quibble with a their strategy and the specifics player but they certainly aren’t walking away empty handed because they have a very good player signed to a contract with cost certainty in a rising cap environment.

Don't bother trying to reason. They legit said Fitz did the right thing by not improving the forward depth earlier in the season because Jack got hurt anyway; that's what started this nonsense. The HFdevs cycle I posted last week is a vicious one for many folks unfortunately. They can't break from it:

1) Go into season with blatant roster gaps that no real contender has (ex. this year was no Cs and org forward depth in general)
2) Majority of this place blindly defends team and thinks they have serious Cup shot anyway
3) Chastise anyone that points out said obvious gaps
4) By midway through season, team begins underperforming and playing poorly
5) That's handwaved away, even tho team is relatively healthy and playing bad. SEE US COME PLAYOFFS BABY. TYPICAL SLUMP MAN. EVERY TEAM GOES THROUGH THIS!!!!
6) Poor performance continues.
7) An important player finally gets hurt.
8) Team continues sucking.
9) Oh who cares about this year. Injuries just derailed the season. Just unlucky! Next year is the year for sure!!!

Rinse. Repeat.

Idk about Keefe yet, but Tom Fitzgerald is a certified dumbass and a bottom 5 GM to anyone paying attention.

 

[Zippy316]

no one is giving you anything of real value for hamilton at this point in his career and contract.

I disagree, I think there’s a couple teams I could see having interest in Dougie. I think there’s a chance the Devils would also be interested in hockey trades where they get some middle-six pieces for depth in return too. A contending team might be willing to take that risk.

Dallas would to finally get a competent RHD. Could target Marchment and take Dumba as a cap dump.

I wonder about Tampa/Florida maybe being interested, depending on the value and retention. Devils would have to take salary back though in either deal.

I could see Nashville too being interested. Maybe even Detroit if it’s an opportunity to move out some of their bad UFA deals like Compher, Copp, or Tarasenko.

Again the issue ends up being who he would waive his NMC too. Dallas seems like the most likely option along with the Florida teams. Dougie might not see the incentive to waive for Nashville or Detroit and doesn’t seem like the guy that would wanna go to Canada.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

To get some good vibes back in here. This is a fantastic shot from Friday. Anybody have the wide angle that was originally used? @Better Call Sal ?



Edit: Also may be the loudest that arena has ever been. All the other big postseason moments there had a lot of rival fans in the building.

Sickest angle I've seen so far of the Nemo goal

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

So who’s gone from the forward group for sure this summer? Tatar and lazar immediately come to mind. Is Bastian a free agent this summer? Obviously upgrading palat and Haula would be great but I think Haula can bounce back and he’s a good centre if you’re not praying for him to score 40 points.

 

[dgibb10]

Don't bother trying to reason. They legit said Fitz did the right thing by not improving the forward depth earlier in the season because Jack got hurt anyway; that's what started this nonsense. The HFdevs cycle I posted last week is a vicious one for many folks unfortunately. They can't break from it:

1) Go into season with blatant roster gaps that no real contender has (ex. this year was no Cs and org forward depth in general)
2) Majority of this place blindly defends team and thinks they have serious Cup shot anyway
3) Chastise anyone that points out said obvious gaps
4) By midway through season, team begins underperforming and playing poorly
5) That's handwaved away, even tho team is relatively healthy and playing bad. SEE US COME PLAYOFFS BABY. TYPICAL SLUMP MAN. EVERY TEAM GOES THROUGH THIS!!!!
6) Poor performance continues.
7) An important player finally gets hurt.
8) Team continues sucking.
9) Oh who cares about this year. Injuries just derailed the season. Just unlucky! Next year is the year for sure!!!

Rinse. Repeat.

Idk about Keefe yet, but Tom Fitzgerald is a certified dumbass and a bottom 5 GM to anyone paying attention.

-neither of Vegas healthy goaltenders going into their cup year had ever surpassed 10 wins in a season.
-

Here was florida's opening day roster going into their cup year.

-There's a number of questions on that dcore (they turned out fine, but you can't retroactively look at gambles that worked out as sure things all along)
-That forward core was not loaded with sure things (Lorentz, Cozens, Mackie, Lomberg, Stenlund,
-Erod was not a sure thing (although wow he should have gone for more in UFA)

And this is a team that was a cup finalist the year previous. There are always questions

What makes the teams win the cup is if the chances they take pay off. That florida dcore of cast offs and misfits worked out to perfection, stolarz out nowhere put together a ridiculous backup season, the inconsistent Bob showed up, Lundell took that next step.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

But then the problem is where do you use it.

Hughes, Hischier, Meier, Bratt: 4 (top 6)
Palat, mercer, Noesen, Gritysuk: 4 (middle 6)
Cotter, Haula, Glass: 3 (Bottom 6)

That right there is 11 forwards already, and all of them I'd say are belonging in an NHL lineup. I firmly believe 1, real, good 3C and this forward group looks very very good.

But I don't think clearing large amounts of cap space to get a 3C makes sense (if you have space, you use space, and you likely end up with a deal like compher or copp that you regret down the line as they decline). I believe in buying retention on a guy to MAKE him cheaper.

I don't think 2 good forwards is going to be something you want to try and buy this year tbh. Again, look at the UFA pool (I know, trades exist, but the UFA pool helps dictate the market for trades. If there aren't great UFA options, more teams will try and trade, which means higher prices).

Again, this is why I keep trying to hammer in I don't think it's a good offseason to try and blow the roster up

Worried about Palat aging even more next year, Mercer looks like the guy the past two years v the guy we thought in 22-23. Noesen is highly mediocre outside of his shooting bender but he's not making too much so that's fine. Gritsyuk will have growing pains in his first year. They can either have the top guys hero puck them to the deadline while adding a big piece there or make the team set basically in October and add depth come the deadline. Fitz has done both in his GM tenure so we'll see.

 

[Better Call Sal]

To get some good vibes back in here. This is a fantastic shot from Friday. Anybody have the wide angle that was originally used? @Better Call Sal ?



Edit: Also may be the loudest that arena has ever been. All the other big postseason moments there had a lot of rival fans in the building.

I don't know where that clip came from with the full audio but there's a wide angle view of it in this video.

 

[NjDevsRR]

So who’s gone from the forward group for sure this summer? Tatar and lazar immediately come to mind. Is Bastian a free agent this summer? Obviously upgrading palat and Haula would be great but I think Haula can bounce back and he’s a good centre if you’re not praying for him to score 40 points.

I see it like this

??? Hughes Bratt
??? Hischier Meier
Gritsyuk ??? Mercer
Cotter Haula Noesen

Obviously my vision is moving Palat but that will be hard. Also time to move on from Douglas. We need cap to fix this forward situation. Haula can be valuable on the 4th line and move up if needed due to injuries. Don’t mind him finishing his contract here.

Question is, can we find some wingers on good value contracts for the top 6 and a true 3C (oh be quiet My3Sons) which will naturally fix the bottom six by pushing the Noesens Mercers and Haulas of the world down a line.