Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[Omar Little]

No one has any idea about Kovy

Dillon is def done for the year at the very least

Like done for the season or done for 2025?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Yet some of you think the issue is the "analytics" team not having enough say? The defense is the only thing that's notably improved in this organization over the past few years. And I got news for ya, at time of acquisition, there is no chance the analytics team was pushing for Bahl, Kovacevic, or Siegs objectively 3 of Fitz' best (maybe only) adds value for value wise.

This part of the post is my favorite, I think. Because LITERALLY that is what the analytics would show you lol that those players (Kovacevic and Siegs specifically) had great underlying (I'M TALKING ABOUT ANALYTICS HERE) numbers.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Team building is hard.

Nah it’s super simple. That’s why so many posters were correct to dismiss any concern’s about this team’s depth prior to March and it was safe for them to assume Fitz was going to correct it at the trade deadline.

Oh wait.

 

[Nocashstyle]

More “The problem” responses. This isn’t how anyone is framing their opinions about the core, yet it’s constantly in the responses.

No, more like:

1.) makes outlandish claim
2.) is presented with counterpoint and supporting evidence
3.) pulls out rolodex of other stock complaints and moves goalposts to another outlandish claim

Rinse and repeat

 

[Devils Trap]

Like done for the season or done for 2025?

Idk if it would be the entire year but a long recovery process

Again at the very least, they shouldnt be putting it out with day to day updates. He is NOTcoming back this playoffs

 

[Triumph]

This part of the post is my favorite, I think. Because LITERALLY that is what the analytics would show you lol that those players (Kovacevic and Siegs specifically) had great underlying (I'M TALKING ABOUT ANALYTICS HERE) numbers.

Literally the 3rd post in the Siegenthaler trade thread is you posting his Jfresh analytics card showing him to be a 90% WAR player the previous season. But no, the analytics wouldn't say something I, Edmonton East, agreed with.

 

[dgibb10]

This part of the post is my favorite, I think. Because LITERALLY that is what the analytics would show you lol that those players (Kovacevic and Siegs specifically) had great underlying (I'M TALKING ABOUT ANALYTICS HERE) numbers.

Someone say siegs analytics (not going too in depth beyond the card but we ball)

 

[Bleedred]

I actually do wonder what things would be like if Fitz stepped down from GM and just became POHOPS and hired someone else to GM. Probably not much different though.

And in the cases where that’s happened recently, both GMs who stepped down and turned it over to someone else while remaining POHOPS were cup winners with their current team. I’m talking MacLellan in Washington and Sakic in Colorado. And McPhee did it in Vegas just two years in and a year after the cup finals appearance. And McPhee was a GM for the better part of 22 years before that.

Seattle did it this year, but Francis is over 60 and that whole situation seemed weird. That smelled like fired via promotion.

It doesn’t sound like it would happen here for probably a handful more years, if it ever does.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Probably a better question for the GDT but I heard they weren't able to restock them in time for Game 4, anyone know if that's true? It's classic Devils to come up with something fun that fans would like with no notice, half-ass it, not train the vendors on how to pour it and make it far too limited for everyone to enjoy.

I think we had 5-6 people ask us in intermission where we got ours since ours were in bags. If someone offered me money for it, I probably would've gladly given it to them.

Ya, I was there yesterday. They said they didn't have shipment of them come in or something which makes me think they might legit make a full time thing to make it up lol

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You guys doing backflips to defend the "analytics" team is wild. Far be it for me to be a Fitz defender, but I'll be damned if people wanna give that fraudulent arm chair stats squad a pass....nevermind comically sing their praises. They should be punted into the sun alongside Fitz as far as I'm concerned.

When "analytics" had a disproportionate say in this org, they spearheaded the mighty might defense of 5'10" soft, but solid in transition defensemen. They'd (team leadership) pretty much said as much (their approach) in interviews at the time. This is also corroborated by Fitz' literal public comments and actions regarding the defense for 3 offseasons now. Of course he's now overcorrected unfortunately, getting too many players with similar limitations/weaknesses.

Yet some of you think the issue is the "analytics" team not having enough say? The defense is the only thing that's notably improved in this organization over the past few years. And I got news for ya, at time of acquisition, there is no chance the analytics team was pushing for Bahl, Kovacevic, or Siegs objectively 3 of Fitz' best (maybe only) adds value for value wise.

It's wild I've gone from being an early (say, 2013ish) advocate of "advanced" stats in hockey to one of its biggest critics since about 2018. That isn't to say they aren't useful. Of course every team should have an analytics team. But the interpretation and/or application of said stats and how players compliment one another is what differentiates between a good analytics team vs one in name only. Then you have critical stuff that's beyond difficult to quantify in a spreadsheet like team identity, how personalities fit, lockerroom culture, etc. Team building is hard. If the Devs had a value add analytics team, they would have gotten outperformance out of some acquisitions by now. A 2+2 = 10 situation like every actual good Front Office pulls off occasionally. The Devs have gotten ZERO in 6 years that could be attributed in any way to the so called analytics team.

Bahl was brought in on the Hall trade which Shero did, not Fitz lol

 

[Edmonton East]

View attachment 1024982View attachment 1024983
Someone say siegs analytics (not going too in depth beyond the card but we ball)

Unreal. Yea, did you read? Those cards cover a whopping total of 80 games LMAO and with sheltered minutes. That isn't the card of an analytics darling people would be pounding the table for in that Devs' analytics room (based on context in post). Why bother making quality posts if people respond with low effort complete nonsense? Cya

 

[guitarguyvic]

No, more like:

1.) makes outlandish claim
2.) is presented with counterpoint and supporting evidence
3.) pulls out rolodex of other stock complaints and moves goalposts to another outlandish claim

Rinse and repeat

Aside from this being a hyperbolic caricature of what actually happens in these arguments, it also doesn’t address the fact that no one is claiming the core is “the problem”, which would imply (incorrectly) that we are saying the depth isn’t a problem.

 

[Bleedred]

This thread is moving too fast and unfortunately I don’t have enough time to keep up with it. But I noticed a post either in here or the GDT when I was reading it that people had posted on Twitter that Dillon’s injury is possibly career ending.

Isn’t he the guy who actually wanted to come back into the game he got injured in, but was held back? Unless maybe he had some kind of delirium due to a possible head injury.

I mean, maybe that’s true. There are people with connections who know people who work for the team I would imagine.

But I remember one of the twitter personalities claiming Palat’s injury in 23-24 was something long term that would probably keep him out potentially the rest of the year. And he only missed 11 games all of that season.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Siegs had good underlyings and got pushed to 7D in Washington because they catered to Chara, I shit on Fitz as much as the next person but that was one of the shrewdest moves he made in his tenure so far

 

[jkrdevil]

Lundqvist only dominated the Devils for 1 season.

But yes he is better on tv than Val.

 

[dgibb10]

Unreal. Yea, did you read? Those cards cover a whopping total of 80 games LMAO and with sheltered minutes. That isn't the card of an analytics darling people would be pounding the table for in that Devs' analytics room (based on context in post). Why bother making quality posts if people respond with low effort complete nonsense? Cya

Yes siegs had a small sample size, and yes it was in limited minutes. THATS WHY HE COST A 3RD ROUND PICK MAKING 800K.

I don't know what you think would qualify as an "analytics darling" at that price point lol. Did you expect him to be playing 25 minutes a night and taking on mcdavid?

The analytics showed he was really good, but underused and undervalued. It's literally the exact point.

 

[Devils Trap]

This thread is moving too fast and unfortunately I don’t have enough time to keep up with it. But I noticed a post either in here or the GDT when I was reading it that people had posted on Twitter that Dillon’s injury is possibly career ending.

Isn’t he the guy who actually wanted to come back into the game he got injured in, but was held back? Unless maybe he had some kind of delirium due to a possible head injury.

I mean, maybe that’s true. There are people with connections who know people who work for the team I would imagine.

But I remember one of the twitter personalities claiming Palat’s injury in 23-24 was something long term that would probably keep him out potentially the rest of the year. And he only missed 11 games all of that season.

Dillon is a nutcase (in a good way / warrior) No medical team would ever have allowed him to come back in this game

 

[dgibb10]

I hope all the best for Dillon but LTIRetiring him would not be the worst outcome

 

[Triumph]

Unreal. Yea, did you read? Those cards cover a whopping total of 80 games LMAO and with sheltered minutes. That isn't the card of an analytics darling people would be pounding the table for in that Devs' analytics room (based on context in post). Why bother making quality posts if people respond with low effort complete nonsense? Cya

You have to be kidding me, you are going to No True Scotsman that post? lol you are so funny. 'The analytics would NEVER argue for this guy'. They got him for a 3rd round pick.

 

[dgibb10]

You have to be kidding me, you are going to No True Scotsman that post? lol you are so funny. 'The analytics would NEVER argue for this guy'. They got him for a 3rd round pick.

Advanced analytics like games played and TOI

 

[Edmonton East]

Bahl was brought in on the Hall trade which Shero did, not Fitz lol

Meh. A month before he was fired. Shoot me lol. I'm sure AGM Fitz (and close pal) had zero involvement....

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

its almost like one of the entire points of analytics is to find undervalued players like Siegenthaler, Kovacevic, Palmieri back in the day, etc.

also, friendly reminder, nobody that likes/uses analytics has ever ONCE said that they are the only thing to judge a player on. It is fine that you don't want to use them, but don't shit on others who do.

My other favorite thing is "just watch them play on the ice!" as if the analytics aren't based on.....events that occur on the ice.

 

[Devils Trap]

Also calling 80 games a small sample is ridiculous lol

 

[dgibb10]

its almost like one of the entire points of analytics is to find undervalued players like Siegenthaler, Kovacevic, Palmieri back in the day, etc.

also, friendly reminder, nobody that likes/uses analytics has ever ONCE said that they are the only thing to judge a player on. It is fine that you don't want to use them, but don't shit on others who do.

My other favorite thing is "just watch them play on the ice!" as if the analytics are based on.....events that occur on the ice.

If I went back 200 years, changed it so that secondary assists weren't recorded, and then tried to introduce them as a concept today people would lose their minds.

 

[Dylan9z9]

Yeah I’m not calling for firing him yet because making the playoffs more or less ruled that out as a realistic possibility but he’s certainly under a microscope this off season

Acquiring Lame slow and invisible players is case for being fired .... just saying