Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[Triumph]

Yelling or getting into scrums? These guys have barely looked like they are enjoying themselves even when they score or in the games they’ve won all season, dramatic playoff game 3 aside. Something has been amiss emotionally with this group all year, the enthusiasm for the game simply hasn’t been there for longer than a few moments here and there.

Yes, this is certainly something you are keenly observing about the team. It has nothing to do with yourself, it's the team who are joyless and emotionally off.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I swear sometimes I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with some of the pushback I get on here. Go back and watch the regular seasons clips from two years ago and tell me that that team doesn’t show more emotion in several regular season games than this team did all year and even in game 1 of the playoffs. I know everyone here is a long term fan and didn’t just start watching six months ago, there’s no way you guys really don’t see it. Is this just more coping?

 

[guitarguyvic]

Yes, this is certainly something you are keenly observing about the team. It has nothing to do with yourself, it's the team who are joyless and emotionally off.

For sure, obviously no one else’s perspective has any validity.

 

[MadDevil]

Yelling or getting into scrums? These guys have barely looked like they are enjoying themselves even when they score or in the games they’ve won all season, dramatic playoff game 3 aside. Something has been amiss emotionally with this group all year, the enthusiasm for the game simply hasn’t been there for longer than a few moments here and there.

Oh good, we're into the body language and armchair sports psychologist part of the argument now.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

They're probably annoyed that their season got derailed by injuries, why wouldn't any team be pissed? Look at other sports, the Jets as a football died as a result of the Aaron Rodgers injury in 2023. The Dolphins have had seasons derailed cause of Tua getting hurt (@Zajacs Bowl Cut can back me up on this). When your star player gets hurt along with multiple D, you're not expecting to be in the playoffs for long.

Going after the core isn't good enough to random arguments about the players not caring just to hype up fake hysteria and bait lol. I've been critical of this team but there's nothing you can legit do after Jack went down. How would Carolina players be if Aho got hurt? Habs players if Suzuki got hurt, etc etc.

 

[Triumph]

I swear sometimes I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with some of the pushback I get on here. Go back and watch the regular seasons clips from two years ago and tell me that that team doesn’t show more emotion in several regular season games than this team did all year and even in game 1 of the playoffs. I know everyone here is a long term fan and didn’t just start watching six months ago, there’s no way you guys really don’t see it. Is this just more coping?

You mean the team that won 13 games in a row might have had more emotional reactions to winning some of those games, especially in light of the fact that a lot of the players hadn't ever played for a winning NHL team, than a team that basically never won or lost more than 5 in a row, and was expected to make the playoffs and did? Wow, that's crazy. I wonder what could've changed.

If you want an honest answer, yeah, it is possible that there's a bit less joie de vivre playing Islanders hockey this season than playing an uptempo rush game 2 years ago, but I don't put any stock in that at all - people get older and they have different reactions to things. Were the Devils known for being emotional between 95-03, was that what we thought about them, how emotional they were?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yelling or getting into scrums? These guys have barely looked like they are enjoying themselves even when they score or in the games they’ve won all season, dramatic playoff game 3 aside. Something has been amiss emotionally with this group all year, the enthusiasm for the game simply hasn’t been there for longer than a few moments here and there.

And then you'll be the first one to cry if a Devils player did that, Canes get a powerplay and win a game off it.

"You can't let your emotions get the best of you lolz"

 

[Edmonton East]

I think his qualifying offer is $2.5 for two years. Is a 4C worth that price? Could he be their 3C?

Fair question given the cap/roster situation. He def can't be their 3C if they wanna contend. He 100% is incapable of playing a top 6 role in a pinch....so what happens if Jack misses 20+ games yet again and Glass is the 3rd best C on your roster? They need a middle 6 C that is also comfortable in front of the net and serviceable at the dot. So Glass is irrelevant in terms of actually contending.

 

[guitarguyvic]

And then you'll be the first one to cry if a Devils player did that, Canes get a powerplay and win a game off it.

"You can't let your emotions get the best of you lolz"

Wtf are you people talking about? What the f*** do scrums have to do with looking like your dog died all season? I swear half the problem on this board is people’s comprehension skills. Read what I’m actually saying.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Fair question given the cap/roster situation. He def can't be their 3C if they wanna contend. He 100% is incapable of playing a top 6 role in a pinch....so what happens if Jack misses 20+ games yet again and Glass is the 3rd best C on your roster? They need a middle 6 C that is also comfortable in front of the net and serviceable at the dot. So Glass is irrelevant in terms of actually contending.

I wouldn't hate Glass back, the issue is there's so much dead weight on this roster and expecting some guys to randomly jump back to normal is tough.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You mean the team that won 13 games in a row might have had more emotional reactions to winning some of those games, especially in light of the fact that a lot of the players hadn't ever played for a winning NHL team, than a team that basically never won or lost more than 5 in a row, and was expected to make the playoffs and did? Wow, that's crazy. I wonder what could've changed.

If you want an honest answer, yeah, it is possible that there's a bit less joie de vivre playing Islanders hockey this season than playing an uptempo rush game 2 years ago, but I don't put any stock in that at all - people get older and they have different reactions to things. Were the Devils known for being emotional between 95-03, was that what we thought about them, how emotional they were?

oh yeah man, the team that had a captain throwing a skate at a teammate in practice was definitely not emotional and passionate about the game. Uh huh.

To me, the extreme stoicism is an observation about the potential mental/emotional state of the team. I understand it’s a bit of a chicken/egg thing that’s somewhat nebulous. You don’t need to act like I’m making it more than what it is. But I’m not surprised - any opportunity to make other posters’ perspectives appear inferior or dumb is a good one.

 

[Triumph]

oh yeah man, the team that had a captain throwing a skate at a teammate in practice was definitely not emotional and passionate about the game. Uh huh.

Did we see that happen? I certainly didn't. You are going off your observations and you are of course conflating things - were those emotional teams? I do not think that they were, on balance. Did Scott Stevens sometimes yell at people, absolutely, do I think the Devils have a locker room like that now, no.

To me, the extreme stoicism is an observation about the potential mental/emotional state of the team. I understand it’s a bit of a chicken/egg thing that’s somewhat nebulous. You don’t need to act like I’m making it more than what it is. But I’m not surprised - any opportunity to make other posters’ perspectives appear inferior or dumb is a good one.

I just don't really think it's anything more than your own projection about the team. That's all. If you had a penchant for noticing positive AND negative things before they happened, I might give it some credence, but you don't. You only see negatives.

 

[Triumph]

God I wish this place existed in 1999 after Scott Stevens got walked by a half-groined Jaromir Jagr to lose in round 1 yet again, oh the things we would've read. The delights to follow.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Did we see that happen? I certainly didn't. You are going off your observations and you are of course conflating things - were those emotional teams? I do not think that they were, on balance. Did Scott Stevens sometimes yell at people, absolutely, do I think the Devils have a locker room like that now, no.

Oh you think that. Ok. Next time maybe you can start the discourse by acknowledging these are your opinions rather than hard facts that warrant condescension.

I just don't really think it's anything more than your own projection about the team. That's all. If you had a penchant for noticing positive AND negative things before they happened, I might give it some credence, but you don't. You only see negatives.

Right, in the midst of repeated failures and let downs over the course of 12 years, on a message board with prominent members whose observations are frequently rosy and optimistic and who bemoan almost immediately those who are more sober about what they see….we definitely need more people who post about the positives.

I post “positively” at about the same ratio that this team wins.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

God I wish this place existed in 1999 after Scott Stevens got walked by a half-groined Jaromir Jagr to lose in round 1 yet again, oh the things we would've read. The delights to follow.

Or the rumor that Gomez shot a puck at Julien before Lou canned him. Now it's some sort of passion being spoken about.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Wtf are you people talking about? What the f*** do scrums have to do with looking like your dog died all season? I swear half the problem on this board is people’s comprehension skills. Read what I’m actually saying.

I can give two shits about their body language, what does their body language have to do with their play? Half the roster is filled with dudes thinking about retirement and AHL fodder and then guys like Nico/Bratt/Meier aren't oblivious to the fact they have to show up EVERY night or else they'd lose 6-2 nightly without Jack and company.

 

[Triumph]

Oh you think that. Ok. Next time maybe you can start the discourse by acknowledging these are your opinions rather than hard facts that warrant condescension.

Watching these four games and coming out with the conclusion that there's something emotionally wrong with the team doesn't really sit right with me.

Right, in the midst of repeated failures and let downs over the course of 12 years, on a message board with prominent members whose observations are frequently rosy and optimistic and who bemoan almost immediately those who are more sober about what they see….we definitely need more people who post about the positives.

I post “positively” at about the same ratio that this team wins.

Do you see how you implicitly acknowledge that you are both a contrarian (so your opinions are not actually your own, but determined in response to other opinions you find incorrect), and that I wasn't wrong about what I said? So you post negatively so you can always own that opinion, that's cool as hell, speaking truth to power and all that.

 

[guitarguyvic]

It’s 100% denial to not acknowledge that this core isn’t as good as many other team’s. There are 36 players currently with more points in the playoffs than our best three.

Our core is “good” but it is not among the best in the league. And our depth is basically completely non-existent. Both things can be true. The latter is more dire because there is no easy way to upgrade the core without going into a full rebuild attempt, so we are stuck with them for better or worse. Which means the depth absolutely has to be really strong.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

It’s 100% denial to not acknowledge that this core isn’t as good as many other team’s. There are 36 players currently with more points in the playoffs than our best three.

Our core is “good” but it is not among the best in the league. And our depth is basically completely non-existent. Both things can be true. The latter is more dire because there is no easy way to upgrade the core without going into a full rebuild attempt, so we are stuck with them for better or worse. Which means the depth absolutely has to be really strong.

Not sure who has ever said that our core was among the best in the league, it was pretty evident after 22-23 that our core needs legit depth behind it to be a consistent playoff team. The Oilers have had McDavid/Drai for a decade and have 1 SCF appearance to show for it.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Watching these four games and coming out with the conclusion that there's something emotionally wrong with the team doesn't really sit right with me.

Again…comprehension. Go back and read the posts a second time and see if you can spot whether or not I am talking about just these four games.

Do you see how you implicitly acknowledge that you are both a contrarian (so your opinions are not actually your own, but determined in response to other opinions you find incorrect), and that I wasn't wrong about what I said? So you post negatively so you can always own that opinion, that's cool as hell, speaking truth to power and all that.

Ah I see. This logic only applies to people who post negatively more frequently. And not to the people who frequently post positively despite repeated poor results of the team. Makes total sense.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I can give two shits about their body language, what does their body language have to do with their play? Half the roster is filled with dudes thinking about retirement and AHL fodder and then guys like Nico/Bratt/Meier aren't oblivious to the fact they have to show up EVERY night or else they'd lose 6-2 nightly without Jack and company.

I mean this could explain the why, but it doesn’t dispute that observation itself. There’s also the observation imo that this started well before the shit play and injuries began.

What does their body language have to do with their play? I don’t know…do you not believe that teammates can rally each other to play better through emotion and passion? Sports is all about just going out there and executing (or not) like a robot? There’s nothing beyond that that influences players and teams’ to execute at their best?

 

[Triumph]

Again…comprehension. Go back and read the posts a second time and see if you can spot whether or not I am talking about just these four games.

It's not comprehension. I know you were talking about the regular season. I don't care. This team could've very easily folded in the playoffs. They haven't done that. They might go out in 5, but the problems on this team right now aren't 'guys aren't trying hard enough'.

Ah I see. This logic only applies to people who post negatively more frequently. And not to the people who frequently post positively despite repeated poor results of the team. Makes total sense.

I'm not going to get into more meta-posting, but a large portion of the team not being good enough over the last 12 years has been goaltending. People who complained about Hischier, about Bratt, and about Jack Hughes, have shifted their goalposts about these players so far that they're not even visible anymore.

 

[guitarguyvic]

It's not comprehension. I know you were talking about the regular season. I don't care. This team could've very easily folded in the playoffs. They haven't done that. They might go out in 5, but the problems on this team right now aren't 'guys aren't trying hard enough'.

They can try hard and still not be playing at their best because they’re not emotionally invested. These are humans playing a sport, emotion and mentality plays a role whether you want to admit it or not.

I'm not going to get into more meta-posting, but a large portion of the team not being good enough over the last 12 years has been goaltending. People who complained about Hischier, about Bratt, and about Jack Hughes, have shifted their goalposts about these players so far that they're not even visible anymore.

Right, I literally just wrote a post about how this team’s core isn’t as good as many other playoff teams but I’ve shifted the goal posts.

 

[Triumph]

They can try hard and still not be playing at their best because they’re not emotionally invested. These are humans playing a sport, emotion and mentality plays a role whether you want to admit it or not.

You have to be shitting me. You're watching Pesce dig out goals with his stick and then block a shot while clearly already injured and you're thinking 'geez, this guy's just like a robot out there'. You think the Devils are playing unemotionally? Again, look in the mirror.

Right, I literally just wrote a post about how this team’s core isn’t as good as many other playoff teams but I’ve shifted the goal posts.

The goalposts have shifted on all 3 of these players, yeah, it's been doubting all these guys all the time, first it was they can't make the playoffs, now that they make the playoffs 2 out of 3 years, it's that they can't win a Cup, shift shift shift. The problem is not them. It is that the 5th best skater on this team is not good enough and so on down the line.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Not sure who has ever said that our core was among the best in the league, it was pretty evident after 22-23 that our core needs legit depth behind it to be a consistent playoff team. The Oilers have had McDavid/Drai for a decade and have 1 SCF appearance to show for it.

I mean that’s a bit of a disingenuous comparison. The oilers have made the post-season for several consecutive years and have won many playoff series in that span, including a finals appearance despite questionable depth even last year when they did it. If anything that’s indicative of exactly what I’m pointing out - this team isn’t making that kind of a run with just average depth like the oilers did. This needs to basically be a four line team if they intend to be contenders with this core.

Also, plenty of people here imply this core is among the best in the league.