Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[Figgie]

Hamilton is 100% worth 9 million. You're welcome to look at the contract Chychrun just signed if you disagree.

He is not. If Luke plays pp1 so you don't want have 9 million dman playing pp2.

Tatar/Sprong level forwards in the top 9 have to do with injury. We can eliminate them from the lineup with or without hamilton.

If Jack was healthy, they would not be in the lineup right now.


Unless you have a ridiculously stacked forward prospect pool and a bunch of waivers exempt players ready to go, you can't just stash extra top 9 caliber guys (we are able to luckily do this with D to an extent, but you can't have it all, and often times those kids may not be ready right away or have growing pains).

And your 4th line guys are very often a different type of player (much more defensive minded).

So what you do, is you have a guy like a Tatar or a sprong as one of your scratches. Dirt cheap, but able to fill in on a PP and sub in if a top 9 or offensive minded guy gets hurt.

Your other scratch is generally a more defensive minded guy to fill in there if a guy like THAT gets hurt.

Ideally we'd have supplemented forwards this past deadline (again what you generally do), but injuries to Ham and Siegs required us to go there instead

We just don't have cap space to upgrade our team if we don't trade Palat or Hamilton.

Tatar played 74 games this season and he will play also most of the games next season if we don't get cap space.

We need 3c and at least one top6 winger and one 3rd line winger if we want fix our attack.

 

[Billdo]

Nope, the guy isn't reliable enough. We need another 3c

It was more about Palat getting the boot than Glass. He's obviously not the most reliable.

 

[Billdo]

He is not. If Luke plays pp1 so you don't want have 9 million dman playing pp2.



We just don't have cap space to upgrade our team if we don't trade Palat or Hamilton.

Tatar played 74 games this season and he will play also most of the games next season if we don't get cap space.

We need 3c and at least one top6 winger and one 3rd line winger if we want fix our attack.

Tatar is UFA. I don't expect him to be back unless it's at a discount of his current deal.

 

[dgibb10]

He is not. If Luke plays pp1 so you don't want have 9 million dman playing pp2.



We just don't have cap space to upgrade our team if we don't trade Palat or Hamilton.

Tatar played 74 games this season and he will play also most of the games next season if we don't get cap space.

We need 3c and at least one top6 winger and one 3rd line winger if we want fix our attack.

Dougie is still a better fit than Luke on PP1 if Jack is healthy. In fact, Hamilton was the most productive PP dman in the league this past year.


You have beef with virtually every single UFA contract, but think the solution is gonna come from trying to fill holes with MORE UFA contracts. Then in 2-3 years you'll be screaming about those contracts too and how they aren't worth the money.

What do you think the 6 mill you get from replacing Palat is going to buy you? Who exactly? And keep in mind you want MORE depth. So not just 1 player, it needs to be multiple guys you're getting

Tatar played 11 minutes a night.

 

[dgibb10]

I'd tend to agree, I'm not sure he can be trusted to play a whole season. I think he has the skill to be a solid 3C though. 4C I'd be willing to have him on. We need another 3C though I think.

If you're getting another 3C and glass as 4C it's going to be another guy like glass where you take 2 shots at it and hope one sticks.

You guys seem to want expansion team level depth while also having a bunch of high caliber stars and it's just not realistic

 

[dgibb10]

I want absolutely NOTHING to do with this UFA forward class tbh (MAYBE a 4C). But please. Let me know which 3 forwards you are grabbing for 16.7 mill combined (8.5 to luke and trading away Dougie and Palat). What are these contracts gonna look like? (and remember when you look at their production NONE of them will be getting PP1 time in NJD) @Figgie Also note, it's less if you want a goalie who isn't daws

 

[HoliksGhost]

I wouldnt be surprised if that was his best NHL game ever

Probably best game ever.

 

[Bleedred]

I want absolutely NOTHING to do with this UFA forward class tbh (MAYBE a 4C). But please. Let me know which 3 forwards you are grabbing for 16.7 mill combined (8.5 to luke and trading away Dougie and Palat). What are these contracts gonna look like? (and remember when you look at their production NONE of them will be getting PP1 time in NJD) @Figgie Also note, it's less if you want a goalie who isn't daws

View attachment 1023566

View attachment 1023571
View attachment 1023572

Markstrom/Daws is Vanecek/Schmid 2.0 from 23-24.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me (Fitz) twice, shame on me.

Imagine Markstrom gets injured for 1.5 months or more again next season and we're down to Daws/whoever the third string guy is behind him. I expect that to go over not too much better than the Daws/Gillies tandem of 21-22. Because the third string is probably going to be a Gillies type.

 

[Figgie]

You have beef with virtually every single UFA contract, but think the solution is gonna come from trying to fill holes with MORE UFA contracts. Then in 2-3 years you'll be screaming about those contracts too and how they aren't worth the money.

What do you think the 6 mill you get from replacing Palat is going to buy you? Who exactly? And keep in mind you want MORE depth. So not just 1 player, it needs to be multiple guys you're getting

Tatar played 11 minutes a night.

Where did I say that sign more ufa contracts?

If we trade Palat and Hamilton so we would have 15 million more cap space from those two. Trade at least one of those. Maybe Haula also.

Our top9 looks like this for next season:

Noesen-Hischier-Meier
x-Hughes-Bratt
Grtisyuk/x-x-Mercer

If we don't make cap space we are going to fill those empty holes with players like Tatar and Haula. No secondary scoring then. But at least we have 9 million Dougie Hamilton playing pp2 because Luke will play pp1.

I don't want us to overpay at ufa market. Fitz could maybe find some help with trade? If Gritsyuk can play in NHL so we need 3c and top6/top9 winger. Maybe 4c also. There is just so many empty holes in our forward depth that Dougie's 9 million would be very useful.

I think Fitz could easily find two Palat level forwards with 6 million with trade.

If we keep Haula, Hamilton, Palat so our forward depth looks like this and we have almost zero cap space left (if we sign Luke to long 8y x 8+ million contract):

Noesen-Hischier-Meier
Grtisyuk-Hughes-Bratt
Palat-Haula-Mercer
Cotter-Dowling/x-Bastian/x
MacDermid, Lazar

Would you be happy with that?

And keep in mind you want MORE depth.

We don't have any depth at the moment. Having many shitty players does not mean that you have depth

 

[Figgie]

I want absolutely NOTHING to do with this UFA forward class tbh (MAYBE a 4C). But please. Let me know which 3 forwards you are grabbing for 16.7 mill combined (8.5 to luke and trading away Dougie and Palat). What are these contracts gonna look like? (and remember when you look at their production NONE of them will be getting PP1 time in NJD) @Figgie Also note, it's less if you want a goalie who isn't daws

We don't even have money to resign Allen if we don't trade one of Haula, Palat, Hamilton.

And I am not either interested for those UFA players there.

 

[Devs3cups]

If you're getting another 3C and glass as 4C it's going to be another guy like glass where you take 2 shots at it and hope one sticks.

You guys seem to want expansion team level depth while also having a bunch of high caliber stars and it's just not realistic

Our depth is pretty far from expansion level depth, I'd argue we have basically no depth.

 

[HoliksGhost]

Don’t worry about my cap - Lou

 

[Bleedred]

I have faith we will make one of those guys disappear. Maybe even two of them.

We see these types ganked off a team all the time.

I don't think it's as bleak as many of you think. And even I have little faith in Fitz, but I think he knows what he's gotta do in regards to guys like Palat and Haula.

At the very least Palat.

 

[Incharge1976]

Dougie is still a better fit than Luke on PP1 if Jack is healthy. In fact, Hamilton was the most productive PP dman in the league this past year.

No he is not. Luke is still young, improving, and the production between the 2 on PP1 is not so far off that you need to even be having a "who's a better fit" conversation. I don't care if Dougie pots more goals. Ultimately the goal is for anyone on PP1 to score a goal and the results between the two aren't that far off.

If you trade Dougie and lose 2% on the PP%, who cares if you improve the 5 on 5 play by 35+ goals with a better bottom 6 for how Keefe wants to play. You're trading 2 goals per 100 power plays or about 5 goals a season for a lot more goals and better play for 85% of the game.

 

[dgibb10]

Where did I say that sign more ufa contracts?

If we trade Palat and Hamilton so we would have 15 million more cap space from those two. Trade at least one of those. Maybe Haula also.

The cap from Palat and Hamilton was included there.

If you're not getting them from UFA, that means you're trading for them. Where are all these assets coming from to get teams to give up cost controlled assets in a rising cap environment?

Our top9 looks like this for next season:

Noesen-Hischier-Meier
x-Hughes-Bratt
Grtisyuk/x-x-Mercer

If we don't make cap space we are going to fill those empty holes with players like Tatar and Haula. No secondary scoring then. But at least we have 9 million Dougie Hamilton playing pp2 because Luke will play pp1.

Or they would be filled with guys like Palat and Glass.

Dougie Hamilton is a better PP guy than Luke Hughes.

I don't want us to overpay at ufa market. Fitz could maybe find some help with trade? If Gritsyuk can play in NHL so we need 3c and top6/top9 winger. Maybe 4c also. There is just so many empty holes in our forward depth that Dougie's 9 million would be very useful.

Which trade assets are you using and for who (again keep in mind you're paying to dump Palat and Haula apparently).

I think Fitz could easily find two Palat level forwards with 6 million with trade.

Who, and for how much. (again, you're also paying to dump Palat)

If we keep Haula, Hamilton, Palat so our forward depth looks like this and we have almost zero cap space left (if we sign Luke to long 8y x 8+ million contract):

Noesen-Hischier-Meier
Grtisyuk-Hughes-Bratt
Palat-Haula-Mercer
Cotter-Dowling/x-Bastian/x
MacDermid, Lazar

Would you be happy with that?

Well considering that roster would have more than a million extra dollars to play with, you'd likely turn one of Bastian/Lazar/Macdermid/Dowling into Glass and go from there. And so from there we'd be swapping Tatar/Bastian and turning it into Gritysuk/Glass.

Also, we may have more cap space than this. I'm not an expert on accrued cap space. But any we accrued over the year before using LTIR will be added to this available number (this current figure assumes NJD accrued 0 cap space in the year and 100% rollover from luke)

 

[dgibb10]

No he is not. Luke is still young, improving, and the production between the 2 on PP1 is not so far off that you need to even be having a "who's a better fit" conversation. I don't care if Dougie pots more goals. Ultimately the goal is for anyone on PP1 to score a goal and the results between the two aren't that far off.

If you trade Dougie and lose 2% on the PP%, who cares if you improve the 5 on 5 play by 35+ goals with a better bottom 6 for how Keefe wants to play. You're trading 2 goals per 100 power plays or about 5 goals a season for a lot more goals and better play for 85% of the game.

"Improve the 5v5 play by 35 goals". Who are you adding to the bottom 6? McDavid???? 1 single guy in league was +35 5v5 last year (and that was from RIDICULOUS shooting luck)

You're right. The goal is for anyone to score a goal.

Here is every dman in the league ranked by how often their team scores with them on the PP.

Hey, this Dougie guy is pretty good

2% on our PP? Our PP last year with Luke running it was 6% lower for starters. (and that is with great help from dougie on PP2 last year while he was healthy)

 

[HersheyBob27]

The cap from Palat and Hamilton was included there.

If you're not getting them from UFA, that means you're trading for them. Where are all these assets coming from to get teams to give up cost controlled assets in a rising cap environment?

Or they would be filled with guys like Palat and Glass.

Dougie Hamilton is a better PP guy than Luke Hughes.

Which trade assets are you using and for who (again keep in mind you're paying to dump Palat and Haula apparently).

Who, and for how much. (again, you're also paying to dump Palat)

Well considering that roster would have more than a million extra dollars to play with, you'd likely turn one of Bastian/Lazar/Macdermid/Dowling into Glass and go from there. And so from there we'd be swapping Tatar/Bastian and turning it into Gritysuk/Glass.

Also, we may have more cap space than this. I'm not an expert on accrued cap space. But any we accrued over the year before using LTIR will be added to this available number (this current figure assumes NJD accrued 0 cap space in the year and 100% rollover from luke)
View attachment 1023658

Hahaha noesen clearly dropped off second half and is overmatched top six but you have him top line

 

[dgibb10]

Hahaha noesen clearly dropped off second half and is overmatched top six but you have him top line

If Jack, Timo, Nico, and Bratt aren't good enough to carry complimentary players in the top 6, then the problems we need to address before winning a cup start with them, not anyone else.

If you want to have depth down the lineup, your stars have to be able to function in a 2 man game with complimentary pieces.

If you go look at all the playoff teams top 6, it is mostly 2 stars-meh, 2 stars-meh.

(and a lot of these teams spent a BOATLOAD on rentals this year).

 

[HersheyBob27]

Our depth is pretty far from expansion level depth, I'd argue we have basically no depth.

True depth come thru good drafting and we are screwed

 

[HersheyBob27]

If Jack, Timo, Nico, and Bratt aren't good enough to carry complimentary players in the top 6, then the problems we need to address before winning a cup start with them, not anyone else.

You want complimentary players in the top six then you are screwed my friend

 

[Emperoreddy]

You want complimentary players in the top six then you are screwed my friend

Every team has complimentary players in their top 6

 

[HersheyBob27]

Every team has complimentary players in their top 6

Does your definition of complimentary mean sticking a third liner on the the top unit like this other guy suggests??

 

[HersheyBob27]

Dumoulin’s a year younger than Dillon.

We obviously don’t have the space for him but for me it’s just about how annoying the Dillon signing was.

We desparately need dumolin back. People will honesty lose their minds when they hear the depth of injury on our backend. It is actually horrific. We will be lucky if everyone is back by xmas. Just sayin

 

[NJDevs26]

We desparately need dumolin back. People will honesty lose their minds when they hear the depth of injury on our backend. It is actually horrific. We will be lucky if everyone is back by xmas. Just sayin

Where is he supposed to play next year? If we don't trade Dougie our D's Siegs-Luke-Dillon on the left side and Pesce-Dougie-Kovy on the right side. If we do trade Dougie, Nemec probably replaces him on the right side.

 

[Omar Little]

We desparately need dumolin back. People will honesty lose their minds when they hear the depth of injury on our backend. It is actually horrific. We will be lucky if everyone is back by xmas. Just sayin

Is this statement informed by anything