Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - playoff edition

[devilsblood]

We can make the argument all day that Fitz overcorrected, but almost everyone also agreed that we weren’t going to be competitive long term with the style we played in 22-23 and it’s exactly why Ruff was let go of when we couldn’t replicate that success.

Everyone agreed on this?

What happened between 22-23 and 23-24 is tough to figure, and certainly after 24 it was clear we needed to make changes, but after making the playoffs and winning a round in 22-23 I didn't think playing style changes needed to be made.

 

[longislanddevil]

I’m all for trading Hamilton to free up that 9m. However, with Kovo possibly out until 2026, who’s going to play the right side after Pesce? The Kovo injury complicates things. How can we even afford to send Nemec the other way in a trade for Quinn? Is Luke going to play his off hand? There’s another RD spot open even if this is the case.

Hockey is such a wonderful sport. I’m not an NBA guy because it feels almost ordained; whoever has the top superstar(s) will win it all. NHL isn’t like that. McDavid still has not won a Cup. The pieces of the puzzle must fit together to have the right blend of players in the NHL because it is the ultimate team game. This takes me back to my original scenario. If you can trade for Quinn and it’s a reasonable enough trade, sure, you do it…but it’ll take rearranging some chairs which makes me nervous. I also feel like we have too many other areas that need to be addressed. It wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if we wind up waiting two years to get Quinn for nothing. Assuming Hamilton is bought out, that 9m can be used to fix the 3C hole, etc.

Just some random musings…

 

[devilsblood]

Bastian isn’t as bad as a lot of people here claim.

But I don’t think I want to keep him, unless it was a short term deal and for similar or less money than he got on this deal.

Again, I can’t remember the last UFA aged non-goon 4th liner that was retained in the post-Lou era.

Bastian looked a lot better when he had a goal scoring winger opposite him. When no one else on his line can generate offense, his lack of offense is magnified.
I still like him, but he does get blown up, get his ass kicked and misses games way too often for a physical 4th liner.

 

[devilsblood]

I think with Bastian his impact on this team has dropped because his physical play has reduced and is very slow to drop his gloves like he used to....Now maybe that is due to the injuries catching up with him but I feel that's the negative with him that side of his game has been drastically reduced....

I thought he was very physical this year. Especially in the playoffs.

He's never been much of a fighter. I remember little DeAngelo beating him up years ago.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Everyone agreed on this?

What happened between 22-23 and 23-24 is tough to figure, and certainly after 24 it was clear we needed to make changes, but after making the playoffs and winning a round in 22-23 I didn't think playing style changes needed to be made.

There’s a reason I said almost. But I think there were plenty of people who had questions about the long term success of Ruff’s system and our style of play.

We had nearly everything go right for us that season, especially in terms of health. That went a long way in that season too. We did not come close to that in 23-24 where Jack, Dougie, Timo, Siegs among others missed considerable amounts of time.

 

[devilsblood]

There’s a reason I said almost. But I think there were plenty of people who had questions about the long term success of Ruff’s system and our style of play.

We had nearly everything go right for us that season, especially in terms of health. That went a long way in that season too. We did not come close to that in 23-24 where Jack, Dougie, Timo, Siegs among others missed considerable amounts of time.

At that point questions were pretty muted.

Granted the next season Ruff's system, or at least the teams inability to cleanly execute it, was a clear issue.

I think we've maybe swung too far the other way, and it's part of the reason we had so many guys under perform offensively.

Like to see a bit of a happy medium.

 

[Better Call Sal]

At that point questions were pretty muted.

Granted the next season Ruff's system, or at least the teams inability to cleanly execute it, was a clear issue.

I think we've maybe swung too far the other way, and it's part of the reason we had so many guys under perform offensively.

Like to see a bit of a happy medium.

I don’t disagree. That’s why I said we can argue that point that Fitz overcorrected. I think the clear lack of offensive depth this year after he stated out loud around Thanksgiving that he wasn’t worried about scoring with this group speaks for itself.

I’m curious what he and Keefe say to the media this week.

 

[forceten]

If Hamilton is able to play in VAN, than Hamilton and Silayev would be a great trade for Hughes - although they might want a little more future (Vilen again - he has no path here and is too good to languish in the AHL IMO) tossed in. They get to save face and still progress, we get Quinn here earlier at a lower price and to avoid 2 years of distractions for everyone.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I do not want Bastian at 1.3+ million. I’d rather someone from Utica or even Sprong fight for that spot. In an ideal world Noesen is the 4th line RW actually. Bratt-Timo-Mercer-Noesen. Already doable depending on other acquisitions.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Everyone agreed on this?

What happened between 22-23 and 23-24 is tough to figure, and certainly after 24 it was clear we needed to make changes, but after making the playoffs and winning a round in 22-23 I didn't think playing style changes needed to be made.

Yeah I remember the vast majority of the chatter being “we just need league average goaltending.”

A few criticized the swarm defense in zone but no one wanted a plodding neutral zone attack / counter attack.

 

[devilsblood]

I do not want Bastian at 1.3+ million. I’d rather someone from Utica or even Sprong fight for that spot. In an ideal world Noesen is the 4th line RW actually. Bratt-Timo-Mercer-Noesen. Already doable depending on other acquisitions.

Based on playoff usage I'd be very surprised if Sprong is back.

Reminiscent of Shara and Boq 2 years ago. When a team benches a guy in the playoffs it's a clear signal they don't like that players game.

More likely Bastian and or Dowling are back imo.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah I remember the vast majority of the chatter being “we just need league average goaltending.”

A few criticized the swarm defense in zone but no one wanted a plodding neutral zone attack / counter attack.

I think there was some thought that eventually we would have to tighten up but I think most thought an aggressive offensive oriented style fit our young guys well.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

time for Bastian to go

move in a different direction

 

[devilsblood]

I'm not anti Pius Suter, but he' s bad at faceoffs, and a low shot rate guy coming off a career high shooting %(granted he's typically pretty good in this regard).

He has had a relatively high defensive usage in Van, and assuming he has good speed, he has some attributes that would fit well.

But I'd be wary of giving a big contract off what is likely a career year goal wise.

 

[Davegarri]

Bastian brings nothing other than average defense. I wouldn't bother bringing him back.

He can't skate, can't score, can't pass, can't hit, and gets injured a decent amount. There are way better players we can bring in than him. Id rather bring in someone hungry on a PTO than him.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Yeah I remember the vast majority of the chatter being “we just need league average goaltending.”

A few criticized the swarm defense in zone but no one wanted a plodding neutral zone attack / counter attack.

I think the goaltending questions came up more in 23-24 when we couldn’t get a save from any goaltender, but I could be mistaken. By and large though, I think there were always questions about Ruff and how long he would last. You had some posters who still wanted him relieved from his job even after the team set a franchise record for regular season success the year prior.

Anyway, this isn’t really relevant to today. I simply wanted to argue the point that what we lost in 22-23 isn’t necessarily what lead us to here today. Those were mostly supporting cast changes up front. The biggest loss of that entire group was Severson and everyone knew it was coming.

The series loss to Carolina might have been the catalyst for where we are now, but the subtractions from that offseason were all ones I think I’d make again. I like Sharangovich but I make that trade over again. If we win and make it to the playoffs, I bet Toffoli isn’t dealt and may even still be here. He did his job and produced while he was here. I probably would’ve hung onto Boqvist with the hindsight of the McLeod fiasco as well.

But it’s 2025 now.

 

[devilsblood]

time for Bastian to go

move in a different direction

If we can upgrade at a good price then sure. If not then it makes sense to bring him back.

 

[guitarguyvic]

The team needed defensive structure, that was apparent after 22-23 regardless of the success.

I don’t think Fitz was intentionally trying to go a different direction with the forwards. I think he just did a shitty job with identifying and acquiring good talent to fill the holes and maintain solid depth after 22-23. If he purposely wanted to change the team’s style then why keep Lindy on? Yeah yeah, supposedly he “couldn’t” fire him after a really good season. I think that’s bullshit, Lou fired coaches in these situations more than once. Fitz either didn’t have a coherent vision of what he wants the team to be or he just didn’t have the balls to do what had to be done because he was scared of the “optics” and personal feelings. Look at how he acted like he was forced to put down his dog when he finally had no choice but to fire his buddy. Either way it’s shitty leadership and management.

 

[devilsblood]

Bastian brings nothing other than average defense. I wouldn't bother bringing him back.

He can't skate, can't score, can't pass, can't hit, and gets injured a decent amount. There are way better players we can bring in than him. Id rather bring in someone hungry on a PTO than him.

He's a good defensive winger, and plays a physical game. Fine for a 4th liner.

I do think his injury history is a potential tipping factor.

 

[McDuffz88]

As much as I would love having Quinn here, I don't think it's a smart move to trade players like Nemec for him. I'm one of the few here who want to keep Nemec. To me he was one of our best playoff players. Regular season be damned. I am on board with moving on from Hamilton because from a cap perspective it just makes sense. Palat & Haula get a lot of hate but they proved to still be serviceable. Haula as an extra or on the 4th line is fine. This is his last year. Palat on the 3rd or 4th line is also fine. If you find someone who wants him then let him go. Getting rid of Hamilton would be clutch. 9 mill goes a very long way. I have to believe Hamilton still has value in the league & it wouldn't be a cap dump.

 

[Mgd31]

Palat and Hamilton out and Ehlers and Pageau in. Do it Lou

 

[Davegarri]

He's a good defensive winger, and plays a physical game. Fine for a 4th liner.

I do think his injury history is a potential tipping factor.

Except he's not physical, doesn't win battles, and gets lit up all the time. Dude is soft. He's not a good 4th liner. Let him go play for San Jose

 

[devilsblood]

The team needed defensive structure, that was apparent after 22-23 regardless of the success.

I don’t think Fitz was intentionally trying to go a different direction with the forwards. I think he just did a shitty job with identifying and acquiring good talent to fill the holes after 22-23. If he purposely wanted to change the team’s style then why kee Lindy on? Yeah yeah, supposedly he “couldn’t” fire him after a really good season. I think that’s bullshit, Lou fired coaches in these situations more than once. Fitz either didn’t have a coherent vision of what he wants the team to be or he just didn’t have the balls to do what had to be done because he was scared of the “optics”. Either way it’s shitty leadership and management.

He clearly wanted a more physical team. Started with Timo. And then Boq and Shara getting the boot. Adding Cotter and Noesen this year. The Defense has been getting bigger and stronger and more physical.

He even said flat out he wanted guys getting into the gym last off season.

As per firing Ruff after the first playoff season in 5 years and the first playoff round win in 10? Sorry, but it was never happening. Did Lou ever fire a coach coming off what was an upward trending season, where they far out succeeded the previous season?

 

[Triumph]

The team needed defensive structure, that was apparent after 22-23 regardless of the success.

I don’t think Fitz was intentionally trying to go a different direction with the forwards. I think he just did a shitty job with identifying and acquiring good talent to fill the holes and maintain solid depth after 22-23. If he purposely wanted to change the team’s style then why keep Lindy on? Yeah yeah, supposedly he “couldn’t” fire him after a really good season. I think that’s bullshit, Lou fired coaches in these situations more than once. Fitz either didn’t have a coherent vision of what he wants the team to be or he just didn’t have the balls to do what had to be done because he was scared of the “optics” and personal feelings. Look at how he acted like he was forced to put down his dog when he finally had no choice but to fire his buddy. Either way it’s shitty leadership and management.

Lou absolutely did not fire coaches in these situations 'more than once'. That is a complete misstatement.

Lou never fired a coach after winning a round in the playoffs. He fired a coach once after a good half-regular season that lost in the playoffs (Constantine), he fired a coach where the wheels were falling off on a good regular season with one of the best rosters ever assembled (Ftorek) and he fired a coach after a good regular season points wise but a terrible regular season outside the crease (Julien).

'More than once' - complete absurdity.

 

[devilsblood]

Except he's not physical, doesn't win battles, and gets lit up all the time. Dude is soft. He's not a good 4th liner. Let him go play for San Jose

He plays a very physical game. Definitely wins board battles.

Does he get trucked/his azz kicked more then any player I've ever seen? Ya, he definitely does on that front as well.