Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

if the Devils did not beat the Ducks in game 7 in 2003, they wouldnt have won the Cup!

Breaking news, I know! It happened but WHAT IF IT DIDN'T?!?!

 

[Billdo]

No no no. I promise you, you are wrong. You are stat watching. I literally saw every game that season (and POSTSEASON). How do you think I knew he needed to retire at time of signing?? I don't have a crystal ball. He had checked out and was done. SAID THIS BEFORE HE RETIRED.

And why do you think he himself retired??? He hates money???? But nah, you right. Absurd and part of the problem.

Uh, ok.

 

[SansaStark]

Even better! A 100 point player who can essentially play all by himself! We win again!

Your boy, Suzuki needs Caufield and a #1 pick on his line to produce, but I'm sure you'll tell us he elevates those no talent losers in a way that Jack can only dream of.

You are right though, Jack isn't as good as McDavid.

I never said Nick S is an elite talent. He’s a very good mid-tier center who would be an excellent 2C (swing 1C) on a team paired with Nico. Suzuki has produced a similar clips to Nico without Caufield so I’m confused why you’re saying that? You can’t just have Suzuki by himself. It has to be with Nico, Bratt, Slaf (in my proposal), Timo. Among other pieces. But sure. This still sounds better than banking on Jack being healthy and effective for a full season.

 

[JimEIV]

How do you ever know you have the right roster if you pull the rip cord at the first sign of trouble? It’s easy to assume you have the wrong roster after a bad season - especially if you have a clear bias against Jack to begin with - but even having the right roster takes teams years and progression isn’t always linear. This same core was fine two years ago even with suboptimal coaching and questionable goaltending then everything else around them changed and maybe a couple haven’t handled a taste of success well but that doesn’t mean throw the whole group out.

I agree with you that all avenues haven't been exhausted yet...

But just to play devils advocate...

These aren't kids anymore. This is Bratt and Nico's 8th season and next year is 9. Jack is going on his 7th season and Timo is going on his 11th season in the NHL next year.

Like I said I don't think we are anywhere near the point of giving up on this but it might closer than we think.

 

[SansaStark]

its funny because the devils definitely will keep jack and luke because they want to add his brother here but when he does come he will be a shell of his current self if he keeps playing 28+ a night. so we will have bum shoulder jack and lot of miles quinn

Bingo
So again…tying this franchise to the Hughes family…sounds like a bad idea

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

now we're just assuming that Quinn Hughes, who never really missed any exorbitant amount of games in his career (he has missed what, 10 this year?) is going to magically turn to bone dust in 2 years

you guys love getting mad at invented scenarios, I'll give you that.

 

[BostonDevil]

I never said Nick S is an elite talent. He’s a very good mid-tier center who would be an excellent 2C (swing 1C) on a team paired with Nico. Suzuki has produced a similar clips to Nico without Caufield so I’m confused why you’re saying that? You can’t just have Suzuki by himself. It has to be with Nico, Bratt, Slaf (in my proposal), Timo. Among other pieces. But sure. This still sounds better than banking on Jack being healthy and effective for a full season.

I guess, but there are like 6 players I would trade Jack for. We need to add top end talent not remove it. 5 + 5 doesn't equal 10 in this context. Get another Jack to add to the one we have.

The injury thing isn't a concern with me yet. Crosby was one hit from retirement many years ago. I'm willing to suffer through Jack's porcelain shoulder phase.

 

[SansaStark]

I guess, but there are like 6 players I would trade Jack for. We need to add top end talent not remove it. 5 + 5 doesn't equal 10 in this context. Get another Jack to add to the one we have.

The injury thing isn't a concern with me yet. Crosby was one hit from retirement many years ago. I'm willing to suffer through Jack's porcelain shoulder phase.

I get what you’re trying to say and I’d love to just add but where are the assets and cap coming from to acquire said player?

And this is more like 5 (Nick) + 3 (Slaf) + 1 (UFA -bought with money saved from Luke’s deal) + 1 (ELC in 2-3 years from draft pick)

 

[britdevil]

I agree with you that all avenues haven't been exhausted yet...

But just to play devils advocate...

These aren't kids anymore. This is Bratt and Nico's 8th season and next year is 9. Jack is going on his 7th season and Timo is going on his 11th season in the NHL next year.

Like I said I don't think we are anywhere near the point of giving up on this but it might closer than we think.

These are seasoned veteran NHL'ers.

Talented young core is long in the tooth, at best. We might be one more shit season away from a shakeup.

That said, I do still believe in L.Hughes, Casey, Nemec and Silayev. That is a really good crop of yound D.

 

[JimEIV]

I guess, but there are like 6 players I would trade Jack for. We need to add top end talent not remove it. 5 + 5 doesn't equal 10 in this context. Get another Jack to add to the one we have.

The injury thing isn't a concern with me yet. Crosby was one hit from retirement many years ago. I'm willing to suffer through Jack's porcelain shoulder phase.

You're not at all concerned about the injuries?

I mean I understand your Crosby example, but Crosby is built like Lou Ferrigno next to Jack.

Jack has played more than 62 games once in the 6 years he's been in the league...Not all his fault; One of those years was shortened to 56 games because of Covid and he played all 56....his rookie year was a shortened 69 game schedule in 2020 but he got shut down after 61 games.... Regardless, the fact remains, he's only played more than 62 games once his career.

I do find that a bit disconcerting.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Well Jack is the only core player without a NMC so if you're gonna trade one it has to be him. Hamilton is gonna have a 10 team trade list and he seems likely gone this offseason if you count him as a core contributor. Team might have to eat some salary to make it happen. Mercer is trade bait too.

Everyone else they want to get rid of is probably gonna cost resources to dump.

 

[JrFischer54]

now we're just assuming that Quinn Hughes, who never really missed any exorbitant amount of games in his career (he has missed what, 10 this year?) is going to magically turn to bone dust in 2 years

you guys love getting mad at invented scenarios, I'll give you that.

relax francis its a joke

 

[JimEIV]

relax francis its a joke

It's Psycho. If you call me Francis I'll kill ya.


I honestly I never thought that movie was that funny....it was ok, but some people talk about like it was Caddy Shack...it wasn't that level.

 

[JimEIV]

These are seasoned veteran NHL'ers.

Talented young core is long in the tooth, at best. We might be one more shit season away from a shakeup.

That said, I do still believe in L.Hughes, Casey, Nemec and Silayev. That is a really good crop of yound D.

Jack really is still a puppy. Even though he's going into his 7th NHL season he's only turning 24 in May.

Bratt, Nico and Meier.... I think they're a little different...well I think they should be the more seasoned vets of the team is what I mean.

I'm not sure how long we can keep doing this without any results but I'm glad I don't have to make the decisions.

 

[Triumph]

Yeaaaa. Not only that, but also crazily overpaid for Allen (legit no one wanted this man. Not even a contender needing vet depth at the 2024 deadline. Think MTL openly didn't dress him some games too idk). Most concerningly signed a 100% washed Crawford to anyone with eyes. Not even 99%. 100%. They got lucky with that one, but I flipped out the day they got him. Indefensible signing, that of course, many folks that still frequently post here blindly defended.

Considering this team hasn't been able to properly value goalies for nearly a decade and if Marty has any material say in that front office bet your ass it's there....I remain very concerned about this franchise long-term. I hate Fitz, but I also don't want Marty or god forbid Director of Player Dev Meghan Duggan who was hysterically and alarmingly mentioned as an NHL GM candidate in a January puff piece. These 2 obviously aren't good in their current roles, nevermind a promotion.

When do 'contenders need vet depth' in goal at the trade deadline? And then, adding to that, when do they trade for non-rentals? I'm being serious when I cannot remember a team trading for a backup that had years left on their deal. I guess the Wings did it with Mrazek this year in a baffling trade, because they already have 2 goalies and now have a 3rd, but I also wouldn't call them a contender.

Goalies that moved at this deadline - Vanecek for nothing, Husso for nothing, Mrazek with Smith for Veleno, Winnipeg and Florida exchanged Dreidger and Kahkonen. Include Blackwood for Georgiev, if you like.

Last deadline: Allen obviously, Kahkonen for Vanecek, Florida swapped Hellberg for Waeber from Pittsburgh

2023: Vegas acquired Jonathan Quick

So yeah, your theory about contenders trading for veteran goalies at the deadline doesn't have a lot of support.

It's also hilarious that you quote yourself about being right about stuff all the time but Allen has been so obviously worth what the Devils paid for him that you look ridiculous out here claiming that he wasn't worth a conditional 2nd round pick that has since become a 3rd round pick.

Montreal was carrying 3 goalies all season, so yes, Allen wasn't going to dress for some games in that scenario.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

relax francis its a joke

the person who is spouting about breaking up all the Hughes family is 100% not joking

 

[SansaStark]

the person who is spouting about breaking up all the Hughes family is 100% not joking

You can just call me out instead of saying this person.

And yes im 100% serious about making this team better for the long term, i dont care about players. Especially ones who can’t even play a full season.

 

[BostonDevil]

You're not at all concerned about the injuries?

I mean I understand your Crosby example, but Crosby is built like Lou Ferrigno next to Jack.

Jack has played more than 62 games once in the 6 years he's been in the league...Not all his fault; One of those years was shortened to 56 games because of Covid and he played all 56....his rookie year was a shortened 69 game schedule in 2020 but he got shut down after 61 games.... Regardless, the fact remains, he's only played more than 62 games once his career.

I do find that a bit disconcerting.

I understand the concern. Definitely. In fact, I posed the question in here last summer about how we are planning on surviving 15-20 games without Jack this year.

I just think that it's more likely something he will "grow out of". Injuries are funny and unpredictable. Look at Dougie. The guy has been solid outside of one injury during his whole career, now he's missed so much time. Yet Mercer plays on and on and on.

I get what you’re trying to say and I’d love to just add but where are the assets and cap coming from to acquire said player?

And this is more like 5 (Nick) + 3 (Slaf) + 1 (UFA -bought with money saved from Luke’s deal) + 1 (ELC in 2-3 years from draft pick)

I don't worry about the money as much. There are plenty of ways you can make up 10-12M on this team to bring in another elite player. We've spent large dollars on some junk. My problem with Fitz is that he went insane on spending for defensemen when we actually have a pretty good pipeline on the back end. Made no sense. Do we need Pesce/Dillon/Kovacevic to the tune of 15M when there are some cheaper options in the building? One of them would have been fine. PLUS - Keeping Luke and Jack paves the way for Quinn.

Moving Jack will haunt us.

 

[Dylan9z9]

A few options I'd be inquiring about:

Hockey trades
1. C/W Trevor Zegras for Dawson Mercer
2. C Shane Pinto for Dawson Mercer
3. C Casey Mittelstadt for Dawson Mercer
4. W Mattias Maccelli for Dawson Mercer
5. W Mikko Rantanen for Simon Nemec, Dawson Mercer, 2026 1st

Pure Rentals
1. W Kyle Palmieri for 2025 2nd
2. W Rickard Rakell for 2025 2nd and 2026 3rd
3. W Jason Zucker for 2025 3rd

Longer term holds
1. C Ryan O'Reilly for 2025 2nd and 2026 2nd
2. C/W Jared McCann for 2025 2nd and 2026 conditional 1st (if reach ECF, otherwise 2027 1)
3. W Lawson Crouse for 2026 3rd

I think if they can add (1) one of McCann or O'Reilly and (2) one of the wingers and the Devils would be in fine shape. Think they could do both and still have another 2nd to use in the draft.

Dawson Mercer for future considerations and half a bag of pucks!

 

[JimEIV]

I understand the concern. Definitely. In fact, I posed the question in here last summer about how we are planning on surviving 15-20 games without Jack this year.

I just think that it's more likely something he will "grow out of". Injuries are funny and unpredictable. Look at Dougie. The guy has been solid outside of one injury during his whole career, now he's missed so much time. Yet Mercer plays on and on and on.

I hope you're right.

 

[JK3]

 

[Better Call Sal]

Jesus, I take one work trip to Buffalo and this is what f***ing happens in here?

 

[SansaStark]

I understand the concern. Definitely. In fact, I posed the question in here last summer about how we are planning on surviving 15-20 games without Jack this year.

I just think that it's more likely something he will "grow out of". Injuries are funny and unpredictable. Look at Dougie. The guy has been solid outside of one injury during his whole career, now he's missed so much time. Yet Mercer plays on and on and on.



I don't worry about the money as much. There are plenty of ways you can make up 10-12M on this team to bring in another elite player. We've spent large dollars on some junk. My problem with Fitz is that he went insane on spending for defensemen when we actually have a pretty good pipeline on the back end. Made no sense. Do we need Pesce/Dillon/Kovacevic to the tune of 15M when there are some cheaper options in the building? One of them would have been fine. PLUS - Keeping Luke and Jack paves the way for Quinn.

Moving Jack will haunt us.

Agree with much of what you said.

But keeping Jack and tying this team to the Hughes family, (who will have complete leverage over our GM more than usual, because you’re dealing with your 3 most crucial and expensive players as a package deal now), is just as likely to haunt us. I’d say it’s more likely the latter haunts us than the former.

 

[Triumph]

I don't worry about the money as much. There are plenty of ways you can make up 10-12M on this team to bring in another elite player. We've spent large dollars on some junk. My problem with Fitz is that he went insane on spending for defensemen when we actually have a pretty good pipeline on the back end. Made no sense. Do we need Pesce/Dillon/Kovacevic to the tune of 15M when there are some cheaper options in the building? One of them would have been fine. PLUS - Keeping Luke and Jack paves the way for Quinn.

Moving Jack will haunt us.

I haven't followed the conversation that close but I don't think the Devils need another elite player at elite dollars, although obviously they could use one. They need two more above-average players and to improve the quality of their worst players.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Agree with much of what you said.

But keeping Jack and tying this team to the Hughes family, (who will have complete leverage over our GM more than usual, because you’re dealing with your 3 most crucial and expensive players as a package deal now), is just as likely to haunt us. I’d say it’s more likely the latter haunts us than the former.

NJ is toast if they don’t move him soon. Deal will get ugly fast.