Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[My3Sons]

Timo-Nico-X
Bratt-Jack-X
X-X-Noesen
Palat-Mercer-Cotter
Tatar

I'd look at something like this

Timo Nico Noesen
Bratt Jack Gritsyuk (shrimp and grits line)
Palat Glass Mercer
Cotter ______ ______

I'd like to upgrade on Timo and Nico's wing but I'm skeptical they can. I think Palat can play ok in a third line role for another year. The problem with your version of the lineup is the salary cap won't allow two top six wings with all that cap stashed on the fourth line. I think for better or worse next season's group is not that far off from this season's group.

 

[britdevil]

$10M AAV for two thirds of the fourth line lol. If I had my way both Palat and Mercer are gone too.

Eh. Mercer is 23. Yeah it's going on two seasons of dick teasing with him, but I still feel it would be way too early to give up.

This is only his 4th season. Bratt had 7 goals in 46 games in his 4th season...

I don't think he has Bratt's offense or anything, but hopefully you catch my drift?

Palat, agreed. Bad contract. Thanks for a couple big goals in 22-23, otherwise on your bike mate.

 

[JimEIV]

Taylor Hall said he wanted to win a Cup and the signed with the f***ing Buffalo Sabres. Players care less about winning championships than you think they do.

There is literally no reason to think Nico is leaving, the Devils are his life and management will be happy to pay him whatever he wants.

Dollars > Cups.

Always been that way ...see how fast players like Bobby Hull and Derick Sanderson ditched the NHL...$$$

 

[It Takes 2 To Tango]

Timo-Nico-X
Bratt-Jack-X
X-X-Noesen
Palat-Mercer-Cotter
Tatar

Meier-Hischier-Bratt
McCann-Hughes-Gritsyuk
Donato-R. McLeod-Noesen
Cotter-Glass-Tanev

Unrealistic? Probably

Mercer and one of Nemec/Casey used as trade chips to acquire McCann and R. McLeod.

Signed Donato and Tanev

Kept Glass

Found a way to ship off Palat and Haula. Would take a future pick to get rid of Palat probably

Just a way to blow off steam last night after that heartbreaker

 

[Clam Jensen]

I just want to watch playoff hockey with a rooting interest. I don’t care how they get in, just get in.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Eh. Mercer is 23. Yeah it's going on two seasons of dick teasing with him, but I still feel it would be way too early to give up.

This is only his 4th season. Bratt had 7 goals in 46 games in his 4th season...

I don't think he has Bratt's offense or anything, but hopefully you catch my drift?

Palat, agreed. Bad contract. Thanks for a couple big goals in 22-23, otherwise on your bike mate.

Mercer has played close to 350 NHL games (factoring in playoffs). He is a 0.4 ppg player over the last 2 full seasons. Do I think he has peaked as an NHL player? Maybe. Do I think he is somehow going to "break out" and become the player we all had hoped? NAh, that ship has sailed. He kind of is entering "is what he is" territory"

Bratt only had ~30 less points in nearly ~100 less games played by his 4th season. His counting totals weren't great because of Covid years. Plus Bratt has always been an excellent skater/playmaker. I can't really think of one thing that Mercer does above average, at least not anymore.

 

[Edmonton East]

If Fitz was good at drafting we wouldn't be having the issues we are having. We'd have another center that can pick up the slack with hughes out. Rossi, Cooley, Wright. We could easily have had 2 of the 3 out of those names.

Also, Kovy should not have been extended if you're holding onto Nemec AND Casey instead of shipping one or both off at the TDL to get the much needed help they are dying for on offense.

Correct and I ranted about that the second the deal became public. Plus, he would have gotten at least a 1st at the deadline and this org needs assets in a lost season. You either sell high on Kovy in a lost season (my preference), or you do what you proposed re-sign and take a swing at LT forward help by moving Nemec/Casey. Instead, Fitz continues his ham-fisted, contradictory moves once again. He is clueless and it's absurd more people don't realize it.

But according to some folks on here, you can't initially like the acquisition of a player. Then 8 months later disagree with overpaying him (off an incredibly small sample, +not impressive less Siegs) in the one position of strength in the organization....in a realistically lost season....when you have much larger issues you need to address (C/forward depth/prospects)...because, you know, context doesn't matter apparently.

I didn't want Cooley in that draft (whoops), but was pounding the table for Wright and very unhappy with the Nemec pick at #2. We'll see how that all shakes out down the road, but looks like yet another colossal f up by Fitz early on.

 

[britdevil]

Mercer has played close to 350 NHL games (factoring in playoffs). He is a 0.4 ppg player over the last 2 full seasons. Do I think he has peaked as an NHL player? Maybe. Do I think he is somehow going to "break out" and become the player we all had hoped? NAh, that ship has sailed. He kind of is entering "is what he is" territory"

Bratt only had ~30 less points in nearly ~100 less games played by his 4th season. His counting totals weren't great because of Covid years. Plus Bratt has always been an excellent skater/playmaker. I can't really think of one thing that Mercer does above average, at least not anymore.

I agree. Bratt was maybe a bad comparison. I also don't think Mercer has/had the insane upside of a Bratt. Just a quick, somewhat lazy comparison to make.

My point is that there is a laundry list of chaff players (forwards) that go before him. His contract is still absolutely fine too... Even if he "is what he is"....

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Correct and I ranted about that the second the deal became public. Plus, he would have gotten at least a 1st at the deadline and this org needs assets in a lost season. You either sell high on Kovy in a lost season (my preference), or you do what you proposed re-sign and take a swing at LT forward help by moving Nemec/Casey. Instead, Fitz continues his ham-fisted, contradictory moves once again. He is clueless and it's absurd more people don't realize it.

But according to some folks on here, you can't initially like the acquisition of a player. Then 8 months later disagree with overpaying him (off an incredibly small sample, +not impressive less Siegs) in the one position of strength in the organization....in a realistically lost season....when you have much larger issues you need to address (C/forward depth/prospects)...because, you know, context doesn't matter apparently.

I didn't want Cooley in that draft (whoops), but was pounding the table for Wright and very unhappy with the Nemec pick at #2. We'll see how that all shakes out down the road, but looks like yet another colossal f up by Fitz early on.

Have not seen one person even insinuate this.

 

[Edmonton East]

Idk what more people need to see. Based on the decisions Fitz has made over the last 2 years, it's blatantly obvious he is very naively expecting Hischier/Hughes to impersonate McDavid/Drai, carrying mostly inferior players and materially elevating those players' production. Or to put it in terms Fitz can maybe actually comprehend, Crosby/Malkin.

That's why he overpaid for 2 over the hill goalies in their twilight years and coming off multiple poor seasons (to contend immediately). That's why he chose and continues to choose to pour draft capital and $$$ into the defense as if the team still has the same issues there as 6 years ago. That's why he went into this season season with no C depth and no forward depth in general (+ awful forward prospect situation). It's really the only way you can even attempt to rationalize Fitz' decisions at this point. Of course, maybe he is simply just a complete incompetent moron.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Not sure how anyone could possibly say with a straight face that giving a (future, at the time) 3rd round pick for Jake Allen, given his play this year, ended up being an "overpay".

also, no one was really even suggesting the Markstrom trade was an overpay given his play the 1st half of the year, either.

 

[JimEIV]

Idk what more people need to see. Based on the decisions Fitz has made over the last 2 years, it's blatantly obvious he is very naively expecting Hischier/Hughes to impersonate McDavid/Drai, carrying mostly inferior players and materially elevating those players' production. Or to put it in terms Fitz can maybe actually comprehend, Crosby/Malkin.

Wait a second...are we pretending that wasn't the the thought with 2 #1OA's?

I mean, sure no one can expect generational talent like Crosby or McDavid...but if you are drafting two guys #1 overall two years apart that is your damn franchise...like it or not it just is.

Even if it's not the full throttle eliteness of a Crosby/Malkin. Those two picks were always going to define this team and most of its destiny.

 

[britdevil]

Caps traded two 3rds for a better goalie, 10 days after Fitz traded a 1st and Kevin Bahl for 34 year old Markstrom.

Hard to argue that it wasn't a risky overpay.

 

[britdevil]

Wait a second...are we pretending that wasn't the the thought with 2 #1OA's?

I mean, sure no one can expect generational talent like Crosby or McDavid...but if you are drafting two guys #1 overall two years apart that is your damn franchise...like it or not it just is.

Even if it's not the full throttle eliteness of a Crosby/Malkin. Those two picks were always going to define this team and most of its destiny.

We could have ended up with Nolan Patrick and Kappo Crappo. Yikes!

 

[My3Sons]

Wait a second...are we pretending that wasn't the the thought with 2 #1OA's?

I mean, sure no one can expect generational talent like Crosby or McDavid...but if you are drafting two guys #1 overall two years apart that is your damn franchise...like it or not it just is.

Even if it's not the full throttle eliteness of a Crosby/Malkin. Those two picks were always going to define this team and most of it's destiny.

They bear the burden of the team but I don't think hockey supports the idea that two guys can carry a team to success without help.

 

[Triumph]

Correct and I ranted about that the second the deal became public. Plus, he would have gotten at least a 1st at the deadline and this org needs assets in a lost season. You either sell high on Kovy in a lost season (my preference), or you do what you proposed re-sign and take a swing at LT forward help by moving Nemec/Casey. Instead, Fitz continues his ham-fisted, contradictory moves once again. He is clueless and it's absurd more people don't realize it.

Who wants Nemec or Casey at the deadline? Why is a team making that deal? What do they gain by having one of these players in their organization for 2 months at what is almost certainly the end of a lost season?

I also don't think Kovacevic yields a 1st at the deadline - a player with no playoff experience and a single year of excellent play isn't what a lot of teams want at the trade deadline. But something akin to the Dumoulin return would've been what they got, but it also would've been a white flag to the rest of the team. It's also a white flag to the organization - I think Fitzgerald doesn't survive that.

But according to some folks on here, you can't initially like the acquisition of a player. Then 8 months later disagree with overpaying him (off an incredibly small sample, +not impressive less Siegs) in the one position of strength in the organization....in a realistically lost season....when you have much larger issues you need to address (C/forward depth/prospects)...because, you know, context doesn't matter apparently.

Kovacevic is not overpaid. You are not paying attention to what players are being paid.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I agree. Bratt was maybe a bad comparison. I also don't think Mercer has/had the insane upside of a Bratt. Just a quick, somewhat lazy comparison to make.

My point is that there is a laundry list of chaff players (forwards) that go before him. His contract is still absolutely fine too... Even if he "is what he is"....

If Mercer never takes another step and stays where he is forver, it will be a fine career. He'll easily get 1000 NHL games and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

But guys like that aren't untouchable, and if we can find a deal that upgrades our offense then we absolutely need to explore that. He's young and cheap now and we're close enough to his good years that teams may still see him as a reclamation project. His value will only decrease as he gets older.

That being said, I think people are sorely overstating his value. Mercer will not be the main piece in a blockbuster trade for a Quinn Hughes or a Brady Tkachuk or anything like that. Far more likely he gets the Zacha deal, a hockey trade for a veteran center with term. Someone like Teuvo Teravainen for Mercer+ at the draft might make sense.

 

[SansaStark]

Wait a second...are we pretending that wasn't the the thought with 2 #1OA's?

I mean, sure no one can expect generational talent like Crosby or McDavid...but if you are drafting two guys #1 overall two years apart that is your damn franchise...like it or not it just is.

Even if it's not the full throttle eliteness of a Crosby/Malkin. Those two picks were always going to define this team and most of its destiny.

that is why we are in this position now. The hope for the future success of this team is more in question now than it ever has been (since the initial drafting of Nico 2017).

A lot of you are slowing coming to realization that those two will never be who we needed them to be (franchise caliber, elite centers) And that, is the subconscious driver of a lot of the fanbase’s despair right now.

 

[My3Sons]

that is why we are in this position now. The hope for the future success of this team is more in question now than it ever has been (since the initial drafting of Nico 2017).

A lot of you are slowing coming to realization that those two will never be who we needed them to be (franchise caliber, elite centers) And that, is the subconscious driver of a lot of the fanbase’s despair right now.

Thanks for evaluating my subconscious Dr. Freud. Do you have a peer reviewed paper coming out with noted epidemiologist Dr. Blackwood?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Caps traded two 3rds for a better goalie, 10 days after Fitz traded a 1st and Kevin Bahl for 34 year old Markstrom.

Hard to argue that it wasn't a risky overpay.

absolutely, positively no one was saying this at the time of the trade(s).

Come on man. Lets be realistic here.

 

[My3Sons]

absolutely, positively no one was saying this at the time of the trade.

Come on man. Lets be realistic here.

Hindsight is almost always 20/20.

 

[JimEIV]

They bear the burden of the team but I don't think hockey supports the idea that two guys can carry a team to success without help.

I think it's more nuanced than a yes/no proposition. I think one player added to an adequate team can make a world of difference.

Of course two guys added to an AHL team aren't going to prosper. But man throughout the years I would say that I have seen two players come to NJ and immediately elevate the teams play...1 Stevens and after his first couple of years 2 Elias. Some players have "it"...some simply don't.

Stevens didn't have a great supporting cast when he arrived, but the difference in team play was glaringly obvious.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

that is why we are in this position now. The hope for the future success of this team is more in question now than it ever has been (since the initial drafting of Nico 2017).

A lot of you are slowing coming to realization that those two will never be who we needed them to be (franchise caliber, elite centers) And that, is the subconscious driver of a lot of the fanbase’s despair right now.

Insane stuff. Sorry man. Your takes on these players are not based in any sort of reality.

 

[My3Sons]

Insane stuff. Sorry man. Your takes on these players are not based in any sort of reality.

I think there is a point that for whatever reasons the team hasn't been as good with those two as many had hoped. I think going off the deep end about the entire fanbase is a bit much however.

 

[SansaStark]

Thanks for evaluating my subconscious Dr. Freud. Do you have a peer reviewed paper coming out with noted epidemiologist Dr. Blackwood?

Sorry it’s only been edited for indoctrination content by PragerU.

Seriously though, you know im right. Something is off with this group. It has to be openly acknowledged for better discourse about the team