Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[JimEIV]

IDK if this squad can beat them with no Jack or Dougie but I'm not scared of Carolina. They're not that impressive. All it takes is 1 win on their home ice, then if we can figure out our own home ice woes then who knows?

My thought is this team is better prepared to grind it out. No Dougie or Jack is difficult but knowing that they're not going to be available forces them to do things a little different and be prepared for it.

It's happening right now. We are playing games a lot tighter and closer ..Look at last 5 wins.

2-1 vs Columbus
3-2 vs Edmonton
3-1 vs Philly with empty net goal.
5-3 vs Columbus
3-1 win vs Utah
3-2 win vs Pittsburgh Shootout

We have scored more than 3 goals in a win once. And we've been playing close low scoring games for a while now.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Any behavior that we as fans can see that shows some kind of leadership. Again, not worth getting into the weeds on that. We disagree that 13 is a good/bad leader.

Good teams do overcome those things. 86 is not our best forward either. Tampa, Vegas come to mind as recent playoff teams that had injuries to top players. But I’m sure there are other examples. And again, they were playing bad before the injuries. Very bad.

In a vacuum if you’re winning a lot sure a 4 game winning streak doesn’t matter. But on this team, and others before it, it’s about the ability to gain momentum. And step on the throat of lesser teams. This group needs the confidence builder, they need to get that mental boost. They’re not able to get back up off the mat on their ability alone.

But turns out, we are the lesser team and we get our throats stepped on constantly. A fact that you still seem to want to waive away with the injury excuse. They sucked before the injuries and I guarantee our record would be no different with the great almighty god Jack Hughes.

No recent successful team has lost all 3 pieces that I mentioned and had success. It isn't a thing that happens.

and "behavior that we as fans that shows some kind of leadership" lmao so like I said, screaming at someone on the bench. That is basically it? Not even sure what else that would entail?

Jack Hughes is their best player and will be for probably the next 5-10 years. If that bothers you, I suggest rooting for another team.

 

[Bleedred]

Trade Jack, Nico (who will walk in 2 years anyway), Bratt and I guess Luke too.

Give Fitz an ironclad contract to be the team's GM until 2040 no matter what, re-sign Dumoulin to a similar contract to the Dillon one, get at least one more less than mobile defensive defenseman and add more physical, slower guys, and absolutely get more guys who will respect the dress code.

 

[Killing Joke]

Not quite that many (as GM anyway), but ya won't find me defending Fitz in totality lol. I've been out on him since the goalie fiasco last year. His summer actions were the final nail in the coffin for anyone that has paid attention to how serious GMs/teams win in this league for the last decade+. Doesn't mean everything he does is bad obviously (ex. liked the Kovy addition in summer), but he can't value assets properly more often than not, construct a roster, etc. Constantly doesn't make changes until he's sweating and his back is up against the wall and he as zero leverage. Loves dealing from a position of weakness....usually of his own doing.

Basically drafting would need to be elite to make up for his many shortcomings and that clearly isn't the case.

If Fitz was good at drafting we wouldn't be having the issues we are having. We'd have another center that can pick up the slack with hughes out. Rossi, Cooley, Wright. We could easily have had 2 of the 3 out of those names.

Also, Kovy should not have been extended if you're holding onto Nemec AND Casey instead of shipping one or both off at the TDL to get the much needed help they are dying for on offense.

 

[Killing Joke]

Oh, and Jack is absolutely the best player on this team. The data shows he is and show's he's as important to his team's offense as his brother is in Vancouver and Draistl is for Edmonton this year.

 

[JimEIV]

Trade Jack, Nico (who will walk in 2 years anyway), Bratt and I guess Luke too.

Give Fitz an ironclad contract to be the team's GM until 2040 no matter what, re-sign Dumoulin to a similar contract to the Dillon one, get at least one more less than mobile defensive defenseman and add more physical, slower guys, and absolutely get more guys who will respect the dress code.

You joke...but if you think about it for a second and use a little imagination... That's nearly exactly what happened with Lou...

Core seemingly in place with a slew of talented high draft picks that seem to all come together in 1988....then within a couple of years this happened...

24 year old #2 overall Kirk Muller bye-bye

24 year old #43 overall Pat Verbeek bye-bye

28 year old Aaron Brotten bye-bye

25 year old #5 overall Joe Cirella bye-bye

23 year old #3 overall Craig Wolanin bye bye


I watched it happen and I thought the man was freaking MAD!

 

[My3Sons]

Ok fine it matters but only secondarily to the fact that you could argue all day about the details of their displayed leadership moments. Or lack theirof.

Injuries and lack of depth are fair but I really don’t think it tells the whole story. As stated repeatedly they were bad before the injuries and the lack of depth we all agree is an issue.

But better teams overcome these problems and we don’t. That is the issue. Not that other mediocre or bad teams overcome these problems, good teams overcome these problems. And we are not a good team.

I thought everyone told me we have high end talent…isn’t that talent enough to get us one measly 4 game winning streak? How bout pop in more than one goal a night? How bout not completely fold up a two goal lead in the 3rd period. Or come back in a game down 1 in the 3rd period. Maybe…just maybe…we don’t actually have any “high end” talent.

Everyone? Really? Everyone? And that was the phrase used "high end talent"? And in what context? They have how many players of "high end talent". I get that we are frustrated but it's not like our statements on here mean anything. If everyone told you Ben Lovejoy was the greatest defenseman of all time so what? Try to stay more grounded it helps when expressing your feelings which are valid.

 

[My3Sons]

If Fitz was good at drafting we wouldn't be having the issues we are having. We'd have another center that can pick up the slack with hughes out. Rossi, Cooley, Wright. We could easily have had 2 of the 3 out of those names.

Also, Kovy should not have been extended if you're holding onto Nemec AND Casey instead of shipping one or both off at the TDL to get the much needed help they are dying for on offense.

While I generally agree about the drafting, I think the plan remains to be seen with Kovacevic. You don't sign someone for multiple years based upon this trade deadline. I think we have to see what plays out in the offseason with Nemec and Hamilton. If they swing Nemec or Hamilton into a third center then it makes sense to keep Kovacevic.

 

[SansaStark]

Everyone? Really? Everyone? And that was the phrase used "high end talent"? And in what context? They have how many players of "high end talent". I get that we are frustrated but it's not like our statements on here mean anything. If everyone told you Ben Lovejoy was the greatest defenseman of all time so what? Try to stay more grounded it helps when expressing your feelings which are valid.

The hockey media, 99% of the users here and other hockey fans, and the folks employed by the team all told me that.

I am grounded. I’m so grounded that I think I’m the only one who manages to see the true ineptitude of this team lies with the players and nothing else. And a very huge portion of that blame goes to the top players.

While the rest you sit in the clouds thinking Jack Hughes is gonna save the team and bring many cups, if he could only stay healthy.

ITS THE PLAYERS ITS THE PLAYERS ITS THE PLAYERS. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.

 

[MadDevil]

I was wondering what the hell was going on in this thread and then I see our ignore lists obviously didn't transfer over in the Great HF Crash of 2025.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I was wondering what the hell was going on in this thread and then I see our ignore lists obviously didn't transfer over in the Great HF Crash of 2025.

 

[My3Sons]

The hockey media, 99% of the users here and other hockey fans, and the folks employed by the team all told me that.

I am grounded. I’m so grounded that I think I’m the only one who manages to see the true ineptitude of this team lies with the players and nothing else. And a very huge portion of that blame goes to the top players.

While the rest you sit in the clouds thinking Jack Hughes is gonna save the team and bring many cups, if he could only stay healthy.

ITS THE PLAYERS ITS THE PLAYERS ITS THE PLAYERS. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.

Sure but that’s not everyone and saying the team has Jack Hughes is not some sweeping generalization that the entire roster is “high end” or whatever hyperbole you used. I agree the team has a flawed roster and not enough young prospects but that has nothing to do with what I was told. That’s just my view of it.

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

The hockey media, 99% of the users here and other hockey fans, and the folks employed by the team all told me that.

I am grounded. I’m so grounded that I think I’m the only one who manages to see the true ineptitude of this team lies with the players and nothing else. And a very huge portion of that blame goes to the top players.

While the rest you sit in the clouds thinking Jack Hughes is gonna save the team and bring many cups, if he could only stay healthy.

ITS THE PLAYERS ITS THE PLAYERS ITS THE PLAYERS. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.

I agree with you. We might be in the minority but I'm with you.

 

[glenwo2]

Didn't get to respond to this in the now-closed GDT of the previous game :

@BahlDeep

There's also 0 chance he would have called out other players like Bratt, Nico, Meier, etc if they made a similar comment.

Anyone who believes so... - @BahlDeep

That's bull.

You think Bratt played any defense in the last game?

Bratt would be catching strays if he was the one who said what Kovy said.

 

[SansaStark]

Sure but that’s not everyone and saying the team has Jack Hughes is not some sweeping generalization that the entire roster is “high end” or whatever hyperbole you used. I agree the team has a flawed roster and not enough young prospects but that has nothing to do with what I was told. That’s just my view of it.

We all agree the depth is garbage. Fine.
But what is our ultimate goal here? Is it just a single shot at the cup? Is that what we hoped for getting two #1 overall picks and a slew of other highly touted prospects?
No lets be real. We all want (and rightfully so) perennial contention. We don't need cups every year. We just want to get into the dance every season and have a shot right?
I think the vast majority of us agree, this is the goal.

So lets think about this for a second. Do we honestly think that if we fixed the depth, that some how the top guys are going to become these playoff horses that drive us to a EasternC final or a Cup final and a few semi-finals in between? They haven't shown a single thing in the regular season that would indicate that. 22-23 is an eternity ago at this point and that year our team play and depth did alot of heavy lifting, MM included (way more than folks would like to admit)
And even then, with Jack Hughes alive and playing, Nico alive and playing, Bratt playing, Timo playing, They got CRUSHED by Carolina. Absolutely crushed.

Is this the core thats going to get there? NOOO FING WAY. Nothing they have shown so far would indicate that.

The cap is now tight. Where is the next top player coming from and with what money? You can only buy out one guy (palat) and the other isn't getting traded (dougie). Mercer gone? sure thats 4mil. Haula, 3mil? Thats not enough, we need other depth pieces. Cap is going up, that should help. But we still need big chunks of cash and assets to acquire said player(s). Truth is, we ain't getting them. Anything we get will be band-aids on bullet wounds and in a few years we'll be rebuilding again once Jack's get his 4th/5th shoulder injury and Nico regresses 5%....thats all it will take for this team to go from barely hanging on to wildcard spot, to bottom dweller. No Luke pop is going to save us, Nemec (not holding my breath) but even the two becoming studs wouldn't be nearly enough.

 

[My3Sons]

We all agree the depth is garbage. Fine.
But what is our ultimate goal here? Is it just a single shot at the cup? Is that what we hoped for getting two #1 overall picks and a slew of other highly touted prospects?
No lets be real. We all want (and rightfully so) perennial contention. We don't need cups every year. We just want to get into the dance every season and have a shot right?
I think the vast majority of us agree, this is the goal.

So lets think about this for a second. Do we honestly think that if we fixed the depth, that some how the top guys are going to become these playoff horses that drive us to a EasternC final or a Cup final and a few semi-finals in between? They haven't shown a single thing in the regular season that would indicate that. 22-23 is an eternity ago at this point and that year our team play and depth did alot of heavy lifting, MM included (way more than folks would like to admit)
And even then, with Jack Hughes alive and playing, Nico alive and playing, Bratt playing, Timo playing, They got CRUSHED by Carolina. Absolutely crushed.

Is this the core thats going to get there? NOOO FING WAY. Nothing they have shown so far would indicate that.

The cap is now tight. Where is the next top player coming from and with what money? You can only buy out one guy (palat) and the other isn't getting traded (dougie). Mercer gone? sure thats 4mil. Haula, 3mil? Thats not enough, we need other depth pieces. Cap is going up, that should help. But we still need big chunks of cash and assets to acquire said player(s). Truth is, we ain't getting them. Anything we get will be band-aids on bullet wounds and in a few years we'll be rebuilding again once Jack's get his 4th/5th shoulder injury and Nico regresses 5%....thats all it will take for this team to go from barely hanging on to wildcard spot, to bottom dweller. No Luke pop is going to save us, Nemec (not holding my breath) but even the two becoming studs wouldn't be nearly enough.

I don’t disagree with a lot of this. It’s pretty obvious.

 

[SansaStark]

I don’t disagree with a lot of this. It’s pretty obvious.

I happen to really like Nico, or atleast the way he comes off in the press. He seems like a great kid. Its not personal. And I'd love to have him be a part of this team. Its not like he can't be. But he's simply not enough.

Jack well... I've made my feelings clear about him. Although he always has the power to win me back. All he has to do is stay healthy and make more conservative puck decisions.

But just honestly. If these two can't drive the bus to cups multiple times.....then what are we doing here?
They could always do it....but until they start getting us in the dance and showing some real promise. They're nothing to me. I don't care about the players, I want wins.

 

[Bleedred]

#FIREFITZ

 

[My3Sons]

I happen to really like Nico, or atleast the way he comes off in the press. He seems like a great kid. Its not personal. And I'd love to have him be a part of this team. Its not like he can't be. But he's simply not enough.

Jack well... I've made my feelings clear about him. Although he always has the power to win me back. All he has to do is stay healthy and make more conservative puck decisions.

But just honestly. If these two can't drive the bus to cups multiple times.....then what are we doing here?
They could always do it....but until they start getting us in the dance and showing some real promise. They're nothing to me. I don't care about the players, I want wins.

I think everyone wants them to win. The problems are myriad. They don’t maximize their talent beyond not having enough of it.

 

[Oneiro]

It would be hilarious if this team starts rolling, guts out a series win or two and makes all this whining look as ridiculous as it comes off.

Again: this team, compared to all contenders, is getting nothing from its bottom six, which is the easiest thing to fix. Bastian, Tatar, Lazar and one of Haula or Palat are not likely to be here. It will look different regardless.

Jack, Nico and Bratt are not Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Makar or MacKinnon. But you can win with them by building a real team.

Just my take, but this is what the Blackhawks would have looked like if they started with Kane, Keith and Toews and didn't have the Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer, Byfuglien, etc.

 

[My3Sons]

That was a great couple of shifts

 

[Killing Joke]

Playing well since the PP goal.

 

[Comparison Ford]

It would be hilarious if this team starts rolling, guts out a series win or two and makes all this whining look as ridiculous as it comes off.

Again: this team, compared to all contenders, is getting nothing from its bottom six, which is the easiest thing to fix. Bastian, Tatar, Lazar and one of Haula or Palat are not likely to be here. It will look different regardless.

Jack, Nico and Bratt are not Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Makar or MacKinnon. But you can win with them by building a real team.

Just my take, but this is what the Blackhawks would have looked like if they started with Kane, Keith and Toews and didn't have the Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer, Byfuglien, etc.

would happily eat crow if your first sentence comes true.

 

[theoptimist]

Might take $8M to get Ehlers this offseason

 

[VoidCreature]

Since the calendar turned only San Jose has scored fewer goals than us.

It's ok though, Fitz said he's not worried about the offense.