Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

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I love Nico, but he really doesn't appear to be a hold guys accountable kind of leader. I can't fault anything the guy does, and he didn't choose to be captain. But I do feel like the group needs an experienced voice in the room that is both respected and vocal. From an outsiders perspective that seems to be missing.
The problem with this type of mentality is nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. I used to say it about Greene too. I think we were fortunate enough to know Stevens handled the locker room for so long but when you don't have a guy who presents themselves like that we question their leadership. This is Nico's team until it's not IMO and ai think he's a good captain but have nothing to go by to say that.
 
I love Nico, but he really doesn't appear to be a hold guys accountable kind of leader. I can't fault anything the guy does, and he didn't choose to be captain. But I do feel like the group needs an experienced voice in the room that is both respected and vocal. From an outsiders perspective that seems to be missing.

literally how do you know that?

they went out and got a bunch of experienced voices. Hamilton. Palat. Noesen. Dillon. Markstrom. Allen.

At some point, the guys just need to play better and/or the GM has to do a better job of building the depth. The Devils are where they are because:

1) injuries. Sure, some will say it isn't an excuse, and they weren't playing great hockey before all the injuries, okay sure. I am not in the mood to argue that. But injuries are playing a huge part in this and that is just a fact.

2) the depth pieces are not doing anything. Haula has turned into a ghost. Mercer stinks. Palat did okay for a bit when playing with the stars, but otherwise does nothing. Noesen hasn't scored in seemingly months. The 4th line is terrible.

and before the usual suspects quote this and go on a tirade, no Meier's production OVERALL this season isn't good enough.
 
I won’t yuck your yum. Though, it’s been 15 years since we had consecutive seasons with playoff appearances.

The team we root for is a Mickey Mouse organization - a ‘certain’ team you can beat down.
 
I love Nico, but he really doesn't appear to be a hold guys accountable kind of leader. I can't fault anything the guy does, and he didn't choose to be captain. But I do feel like the group needs an experienced voice in the room that is both respected and vocal. From an outsiders perspective that seems to be missing.
i got blasted for calling out his leadership skills last year and whatever people will disagree no one will ever know the truth. fact is the team is mentally soft there is zero pushback when things go wrong there is zero effort when things are tough. people blamed ruff for that but its the same shit even today with keefe today so whats the excuse? you look at the guys playing out there and there is zero emotion zero killer instinct. its like they go through the motions in the third down a goal or two and then just happen to score then thats when they get interested in playing. i dont know i just dont see this core doing much even if jack can make it through a season healthy come playoff time. even healthy they are like a 10000% softer version of the leafs
 
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man some of you guys are p***yes with the kovy stuff lol. it's really not that serious.
Guys are frustrated, including the coach. He got testy and Kovy was just the unlucky guy who took the bullet because his quote was referenced by whoever asked Keefe the question. Probably not the most professional way to handle it, but you'd think Keefe insulted the guy's grandmother the way some people are acting.
 
Outside of losing games of late why is this team unlikable?
Maybe because the results are routinely below expectations? Or maybe it’s because they have no killer instinct and can’t finish for shit? Maybe it’s how they have like one comeback win all season; if they get down in a game we pretty much know they are going to lay down and lose. Maybe it’s because they don’t seem to play with any passion or fire? Maybe it’s because they start the season strong, think they’re hot shit, then collapse? Maybe it’s because when the going gets tough they fold like a cheap suit? Maybe it’s how they haven’t won more than three consecutive games in two years and have a consistent habit of starting games like shit? Maybe it’s how the top guys can’t seem to avoid major injuries? Maybe it’s how we are half a decade into the Jack Hughes era and we have only one real great team-oriented season/moment to hang our hats on.

I’m guessing it’s all of the above, but I don’t know, just spitballing.
 
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Yeah I don't understand the phony outrage over the Keefe stuff. Guys in that room should be pissed, they have been playing like trash for three months now.

I like Kovacevic and I know the counting stats portray him as a defensive darling, but he's had some colossal individual f***-ups that have directly cost this team points in the standings. He cost us at least two OT points with last second mistakes in the Dallas and Calgary games.

These guys are adults and if you think "Kovacevic needs to play better" is some unforgivable violation of human dignity, then wait until you hear what other players chirp to each other on the ice during a game. Kovacevic is a grown up and if he can't deal with his boss telling him to perform better then he should walk away from that $20 million contract and get a job at Walmart or something.
 
if you think that Nico Hischier and Jesper Bratt "don't care", you are probably watching a different sport than I am.

What a crazy thing to say.

if you think the effort they put out there when trailing or in the third period is caring? then i dunno what to tell ya esp at this point in the season and with the race thats on. but hey i'm sure the deserve to win o meter will help them make the playoffs
 
Maybe because the results are routinely below expectations? Or maybe it’s because they have no killer instinct and can’t finish for shit? Maybe it’s how they have like one comeback win all season; if they get down in a game we pretty much know they are going to lay down and lose. Maybe it’s because they don’t seem to play with any passion or fire? Maybe it’s because they start the season strong, think they’re hot shit, then collapse? Maybe it’s because when the going gets tough they fold like a cheap suit? Maybe it’s how they haven’t won more than three consecutive games in two years and have a consistent habit of starting games like shit? Maybe it’s how the top guys can’t seem to avoid major injuries? Maybe it’s how we are half a decade into the Jack Hughes era and we have only one real great team-oriented season/moment to hang our hats on.

I’m guessing it’s all of the above, but I don’t know, just spitballing.

- They don't have 1 comeback win all season. They have 14, which is right in the middle of the pack. This basically refutes half of your points.


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- Connor McDavid is the best player in the world and was the best prospect in how many years? His first 5 years, the Oilers won I think 7 playoff games total.
 
Maybe because the results are routinely below expectations? Or maybe it’s because they have no killer instinct and can’t finish for shit? Maybe it’s how they have like one comeback win all season; if they get down in a game we pretty much know they are going to lay down and lose. Maybe it’s because they don’t seem to play with any passion or fire? Maybe it’s because they start the season strong, think they’re hot shit, then collapse? Maybe it’s because when the going gets tough they fold like a cheap suit? Maybe it’s how they haven’t won more than three consecutive games in two years and have a consistent habit of starting games like shit? Maybe it’s how the top guys can’t seem to avoid major injuries? Maybe it’s how we are half a decade into the Jack Hughes era and we have only one real great team-oriented season/moment to hang our hats on.

I’m guessing it’s all of the above, but I don’t know, just spitballing.

preach on brother! this core will get another excuse thanks to jack being hurt which is a problem in itself. i fully expect jack to miss 10-20 games next year
 
if you think the effort they put out there when trailing or in the third period is caring? then i dunno what to tell ya esp at this point in the season and with the race thats on. but hey i'm sure the deserve to win o meter will help them make the playoffs

I'll say this again

if you think that Jesper Bratt and Nico Hischier are the problem with the New Jersey Devils, hockey might not be for you buddy.
 
This is where this argument becomes circular and never-ending. People want to have someone they can point the finger at. This situation isn't that simple.

If there are people who want to believe the core is the fundamental problem on this team, that's your opinion but I guarantee every other team would be lining up to gladly bring in a Nico or a Bratt the second that they could. These guys leave it all on the ice every single night. Right now, them and Jake Allen are about the only 3 guys I can confidently believe in the rest of the way.

I think saying guys don't care or there's no effort is such a cop out. There's a difference between what we're seeing and no effort. Much of what we're seeing is tentativeness from our own zone that affects virtually ever other part of our game. If teams can sniff that out, make us have to work twice as hard in our own end just to get the puck out, you're going to get worn out much faster. That was largely what caused us to get dominated in the 2nd and lead to the back-to-back goals against.

The roster is patched together right now, for better or worse. The supporting cast that already was not producing well enough is now producing even less. I have a very difficult time pointing the finger at the best players on the team when they're doing their damndest to carry this carcass across the finish line.
 
lmao Bratt is 6th in the league in assists and tied with Cale Makar for 9th in the league in scoring. He has more points than Sidney Crosby.

Hischier is tied for 8th among centers in goals - more goals than MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, and Crosby.

Since January 1st:

Bratt - 34 points (31 games)
Jack - 24 points (22 games)
Hischier - 22 points (25 games)
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Meier - 17 points (31 games)
Mercer - 9 points (31 games)
Palat - 9 points (28 games)
Noesen - 9 points (29 games)
Cotter - 7 points (30 games)
Tatar - 6 points (29 games)
Glass - 6 points (7 games!)
Haula - 5 points (18 games)
Bastian - 4 points (31 games)
Lazar - 3 points (28 games)
Dowling - 2 points (18 games)

So again - why are we blaming the players that are doing their jobs?
 
lmao Bratt is 6th in the league in assists and tied with Cale Makar for 9th in the league in scoring. He has more points than Sidney Crosby.

Hischier is tied for 8th among centers in goals - more goals than MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, and Crosby.

Since January 1st:

Bratt - 34 points (31 games)
Jack - 24 points (22 games)
Hischier - 22 points (25 games)
-----
Meier - 17 points (31 games)
Mercer - 9 points (31 games)

I cut off the rest of the list because you've identified the problem right here. The Devils best 5 or so players are fine, it is after that where they have a problem. Mercer didn't take a step, Hamilton got hurt, Luke Hughes looked like he belonged at 4 Nations in December and he's been a 3rd pairing D since, etc. That's why the issue isn't with the core at all, it's with the mid-range players.

I don't think the Devils really have a season like this in their history but if they do, it's closest to 2004, when Elias, Gomez, Niedermayer, and Brodeur had excellent seasons, the team played great defense, the backup goaltending was absurdly good, but coming off a Conn Smythe type run Friesen was 4th in scoring and would never again play for the Devils or be close to 4th in team scoring, Stevens's career ended about halfway through the year without much closure, the Devils didn't get a ton of help at the deadline whereas most of the East did, and they lost in 5.
 
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lmao Bratt is 6th in the league in assists and tied with Cale Makar for 9th in the league in scoring. He has more points than Sidney Crosby.

Hischier is tied for 8th among centers in goals - more goals than MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, and Crosby.

Since January 1st:

Bratt - 34 points (31 games)
Jack - 24 points (22 games)
Hischier - 22 points (25 games)
-----
Meier - 17 points (31 games)
Mercer - 9 points (31 games)
Palat - 9 points (28 games)
Noesen - 9 points (29 games)
Cotter - 7 points (30 games)
Tatar - 6 points (29 games)
Glass - 6 points (7 games!)
Haula - 5 points (18 games)
Bastian - 4 points (31 games)
Lazar - 3 points (28 games)
Dowling - 2 points (18 games)

So again - why are we blaming the players that are doing their jobs?
Because Nico and Bratt don't yell at or hit guys and yelling/hitting = caring!
 
Because Nico and Bratt don't yell at or hit guys and yelling/hitting = caring!

Except Bratt does hit guys.

The problem with this team is a scoring winger in the top 6 and it needs to be completely revamped in the bottom 6.

Not for nothing, but the entire bottom 6 dropped off in a year we brought in a coach where fans of the other team said they had issues scoring with him at times. We simply don't have the assets to play his style right now because we are essentially missing huge pieces that are done for the year.

There is a reason the 3rd periods look terrible. Teams shorten their bench. We just don't have the guys to get it done when they do that. We wouldn't be the first team to look good at the beginning of the season only to fall off when things tighten up, and it's being exasperated due to the fact we are missing Jonas, Dougie, and Jack.
 
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This is where this argument becomes circular and never-ending. People want to have someone they can point the finger at. This situation isn't that simple.

If there are people who want to believe the core is the fundamental problem on this team, that's your opinion but I guarantee every other team would be lining up to gladly bring in a Nico or a Bratt the second that they could. These guys leave it all on the ice every single night. Right now, them and Jake Allen are about the only 3 guys I can confidently believe in the rest of the way.

I think saying guys don't care or there's no effort is such a cop out. There's a difference between what we're seeing and no effort. Much of what we're seeing is tentativeness from our own zone that affects virtually ever other part of our game. If teams can sniff that out, make us have to work twice as hard in our own end just to get the puck out, you're going to get worn out much faster. That was largely what caused us to get dominated in the 2nd and lead to the back-to-back goals against.

The roster is patched together right now, for better or worse. The supporting cast that already was not producing well enough is now producing even less. I have a very difficult time pointing the finger at the best players on the team when they're doing their damndest to carry this carcass across the finish line.
The blame game in this circumstance is rather straightforward. And "patched together right now"? Reminder, team was playing at a 75pt pace from Christmas to Hughes injury...with the team relatively as healthy or healthier than league average.

1) Tom Fitzgerald - No C/forward depth and bottom 3 forward prospects in league. Misuse of assets. Purely reactionary GM leading to overcorrecting when leverage is lowest and value/timing makes no sense. Etc. Etc. Etc. Doesn't understand team window.
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2) Pretty much all of the players. Bottom 6 obviously main problem. Then Meier and Mercer. Then Jack having yet to return to 2022 form, nevermind improve off it in totality...and yet another injury. Bratt ES SOG was abysmal this season, both from the eye test and statistically. Duh, Hughes and Bratt are great players, but with how top heavy this roster is, these guys needed to be elite and still progressing materially upward (see: #1). If they had, you'd be able to stick Joe Blow on that line's wing and get massive overperformance out of said player. Didn't happen despite the most favorable deployment of any top 6 line in the league.
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3) Staff/coaching/development
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4) Everything else
 
The blame game in this circumstance is rather straightforward. And "patched together right now"? Reminder, team was playing at a 75pt pace from Christmas to Hughes injury...with the team relatively as healthy or healthier than league average.

1) Tom Fitzgerald - No C/forward depth and bottom 3 forward prospects in league. Misuse of assets. Purely reactionary GM leading to overcorrecting when leverage is lowest and value/timing makes no sense. Etc. Etc. Etc. Doesn't understand team window.
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2) Pretty much all of the players. Bottom 6 obviously main problem. Then Meier and Mercer. Then Jack having yet to return to 2022 form, nevermind improve off it in totality...and yet another injury. Bratt ES SOG was abysmal this season, both from the eye test and statistically. Duh, Hughes and Bratt are great players, but with how top heavy this roster is, these guys needed to be elite and still progressing materially upward (see: #1). If they had, you'd be able to stick Joe Blow on that line's wing and get massive overperformance out of said player. Didn't happen despite the most favorable deployment of any top 6 line in the league.
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3) Staff/coaching/development
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4) Everything else
can you provide some posts you made from over the summer that validate your conclusions?
 

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