Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[AfroThunder396]

Haula, Lazar, Bastian, Palat, and Tatar are all having their worst seasons as Devils. I've lost some faith in Fitz and listed the reasons why before, but at a certain point you need some dudes to perform.

If we look at this offseason in a vacuum, he got the best coach available, he nailed signing Noesen (I was a big proponent of this one), he made a decent enough call swapping Marino for Pesce, and he did finally fix the goaltending issue for at least one season (even if he overpaid to do it). Cotter was a decent add for someone that at least has a bit of scoring presence in the bottom six and can play the Miles Wood role well enough. I thought bringing back Tatar was a fine gamble and he would have probably been more successful if the bottom six as a whole wasn't a dumpster.

I'm not sure why we gave MacDermid the contract at all and I'm thoroughly not sure why we gave Dillon 3 years.

The biggest criticism of Fitz I can get behind is that he's overcorrected on physicality and paid too much to do it (or sold too low on certain assets).

I went back and re-watched Game 7 vs NYR yesterday. 4-0 win, goals from McLeod, Tatar, and Haula. Bratt's only goal of the series was the END in Game 7. Timo didn't have a goal the whole series. We have none of that now.

Palat played decently well for a chunk of the season. Haula is starting to get some bounces. Where was all of this earlier in the year? It can't be as simple as Glass coming in and fixing everything.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Sens have obviously done their homework on The Devils and figured out our weakness. The old hat trick hack.

He's been playing 4th line most of his time there.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Foote up tells me Palat is out as Dowling would get in for Lazar

Lol, can’t even get playoff Palat if hes hurt hurt and if they make it in

 

[Edmonton East]

The Markstrom fanboying is dangerous. Considering this org has been one of the worst in the entire league regarding goalie valuations for several years now, you'd think folks would show a little more caution.

Even impartial outsiders who like Markstrom criticize his consistency and tendency to allow easy early goals. People can live in denial all they want, but it's a valid concern (in addition to age). It's an upgrade at the position, but remains a serious overpay imo, especially considering short contract, age, and Devs coming off awful season.

^ Stated in July on Markstrom, timing, and value....

Stated in early June before the trades....

"The choice is simple. Do folks want:
A) a roster with only 4 capable top 6 forwards + limited depth, but a good (not great and certainly not elite goalie)
B) a strong top 6 that isn't reliant on big years from Mercer + Holtz and perfect forward health, but an average+ goalie"

Stated in October, and credit to him for making me look wrong for about 5 weeks this season. Spare me the injury excuse....he just had a hot stretch.
"- I hope I'm proven wrong, but results aside, I still think Markstrom is an average goalie. Devs massively overpaid. I continue to be mystified how the self proclaimed goalie aficionados on this site can watch him play and not be concerned with: how deep he sits in the crease, his constant over/mishandling of the puck (minor, but annoying), and the constant overshoot of the post when moving laterally. He plays small for his size."

And have several other posts that specifically and correctly pointed out the issues/concerns with this team months in advance. This isn't to brag. This is to yet again show how laughably absurd it is for people to continue defending Fitz. If a nobody on a message board can foresee these issues, the guy getting paid millions damn well better be able to. This org will never, ever seriously contend with this overrated hack running the org. And I gave him credit for the initial Kovy and Glass trades (value was off tho), so it isn't like I just blindly hate everything he does.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

^ Stated in July on Markstrom, timing, and value....

Stated in early June before the trades....

"The choice is simple. Do folks want:
A) a roster with only 4 capable top 6 forwards + limited depth, but a good (not great and certainly not elite goalie)
B) a strong top 6 that isn't reliant on big years from Mercer + Holtz and perfect forward health, but an average+ goalie"

Stated in October, and credit to him for making me look wrong for about 5 weeks this season. Spare me the injury excuse....he just had a hot stretch.
"- I hope I'm proven wrong, but results aside, I still think Markstrom is an average goalie. Devs massively overpaid. I continue to be mystified how the self proclaimed goalie aficionados on this site can watch him play and not be concerned with: how deep he sits in the crease, his constant over/mishandling of the puck (minor, but annoying), and the constant overshoot of the post when moving laterally. He plays small for his size."

And have several other posts that specifically and correctly pointed out the issues/concerns with this team months in advance. This isn't to brag. This is to yet again show how laughably absurd it is for people to continue defending Fitz. If a nobody on a message board can foresee these issues, the guy getting paid millions damn well better be able to. This org will never, ever seriously contend with this overrated hack running the org. And I gave him credit for the initial Kovy and Glass trades (value was off tho), so it isn't like I just blindly hate everything he does.

Now let’s see the Jake Allen posts. Congrats on needing a significant injury to still be mostly wrong on the other guy.

 

[Ol Dirty Bstrd]

I think the cap hamstrung them this season. They had no real wiggle room and the guys you'd want to move out have trade protection.

That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement for Fitz since all of that is his doing

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

love to see "look what I said" posts from 8 months ago

thank you and have a good day, sir!!

 

[Devs3cups]

This season is depressing.

I’ll be right back on the bandwagon next season, especially if the bottom-6 is fixed in the off-season though lmao.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I went back and re-watched Game 7 vs NYR yesterday. 4-0 win, goals from McLeod, Tatar, and Haula. Bratt's only goal of the series was the END in Game 7. Timo didn't have a goal the whole series. We have none of that now.

Palat played decently well for a chunk of the season. Haula is starting to get some bounces. Where was all of this earlier in the year? It can't be as simple as Glass coming in and fixing everything.

I do think Glass helps a lot just because he takes some defensive responsibility off and he does have some decent tools. Lazar and Haula are both better as wings than centers so any capable center helps there.

Palat is never as bad as his biggest detractors make him out to be, but this is still his worst season with us. I always assumed he would not play out his contract here and I'm pretty confident that will be the case after this year.

We just about inversed systems this year to emphasize low-risk plays over high-risk. That will suppress the less talented players from a scoring perspective.

Dowling played 430 minutes this year and absolutely killed his linemates for 400 of those. MacDermid did the same for 120. Lazar and Bastian are just absolute nothing burgers on offense this year. Our D is less likely to produce offense this year as compared to previous years.

All of that will natually drag down a Haula or Tatar type player. Neither one spent all that much time in the top 6 this year.

 

[MartyOwns]

^ Stated in July on Markstrom, timing, and value....

Stated in early June before the trades....

"The choice is simple. Do folks want:
A) a roster with only 4 capable top 6 forwards + limited depth, but a good (not great and certainly not elite goalie)
B) a strong top 6 that isn't reliant on big years from Mercer + Holtz and perfect forward health, but an average+ goalie"

Stated in October, and credit to him for making me look wrong for about 5 weeks this season. Spare me the injury excuse....he just had a hot stretch.
"- I hope I'm proven wrong, but results aside, I still think Markstrom is an average goalie. Devs massively overpaid. I continue to be mystified how the self proclaimed goalie aficionados on this site can watch him play and not be concerned with: how deep he sits in the crease, his constant over/mishandling of the puck (minor, but annoying), and the constant overshoot of the post when moving laterally. He plays small for his size."

And have several other posts that specifically and correctly pointed out the issues/concerns with this team months in advance. This isn't to brag. This is to yet again show how laughably absurd it is for people to continue defending Fitz. If a nobody on a message board can foresee these issues, the guy getting paid millions damn well better be able to. This org will never, ever seriously contend with this overrated hack running the org. And I gave him credit for the initial Kovy and Glass trades (value was off tho), so it isn't like I just blindly hate everything he does.

these posts are so cringey dude, especially when you make them so frequently.

 

[My3Sons]

I do think Glass helps a lot just because he takes some defensive responsibility off and he does have some decent tools. Lazar and Haula are both better as wings than centers so any capable center helps there.

Palat is never as bad as his biggest detractors make him out to be, but this is still his worst season with us. I always assumed he would not play out his contract here and I'm pretty confident that will be the case after this year.

We just about inversed systems this year to emphasize low-risk plays over high-risk. That will suppress the less talented players from a scoring perspective.

Dowling played 430 minutes this year and absolutely killed his linemates for 400 of those. MacDermid did the same for 120. Lazar and Bastian are just absolute nothing burgers on offense this year. Our D is less likely to produce offense this year as compared to previous years.

All of that will natually drag down a Haula or Tatar type player. Neither one spent all that much time in the top 6 this year.

At about $4 mil per Palat would be seen differently I think. it's the top six paycheck that bothers some folks. That and the fact the team has to play him in a top six role too often. if he played third line situations and minutes and was paid accordingly he'd be less polarizing in my view.

 

[My3Sons]

these posts are so cringey dude, especially when you make them so frequently.

I agree. Nobody should repeat themsleves here. Like me for example I never beat a dead horse just to amuse myself. All my posts are fresh and interesting. Not at all full of cringey dad jokes that I make on purpose to torture all the young folks.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I also want to know what "massively overpaid" for Markstrom even means? They gave up a 1st round pick (which will be like 18-24 overall) in a weak draft and a bottom pairing DMan. Remember they also had Calgary retain, which is big. So what should they have given up? "Massively overpaid" to me indicates that it should have been for like a 4th round pick, which is insanity.

I didn't love the trade at the time, but I definitely understood it. And before Markstrom got hurt, he was playing really good hockey.

 

[My3Sons]

That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement for Fitz since all of that is his doing

No, it isn't. Fitz has been a mixed bag so far for me. Not the worst not the best. Not much he can do about the injuries but if they had more young prospects pushing for spots maybe they'd have felt the injuries a bit less on the ice. He has done a decent job of renovating the defense and even the goaltending this season but the forward group remains a work in progress.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

This season is depressing.

I’ll be right back on the bandwagon next season, especially if the bottom-6 is fixed in the off-season though lmao.

I don't get it, the Devils are very likely in the playoffs. It's a whole new season then, the deadline additions have mostly worked out, they won't be an easy out at least I don't think. Cheer up and eNJoy the ride!

 

[Bleedred]

And all this talk about the Islanders (or whoever) catching us, they better hope those two starts they gave Markstrom that followed up great games from Allen (Pittsburgh and Calgary) aren’t the difference.

There’s no way we don’t have 2-3 more points (possibly all 4) just from those two games alone if Markstrom hadn’t been so terrible and allowed 10 goals on 49 shots. This team has a hard enough time scoring 3 goals and they scored 3 in both those games. Apparently we need to score 5 for Markstrom to get a win. He came close enough to allowing 4 when his glove was abused in that Columbus game when they had the goalie pulled.

10 goals on 49 shots? Allen allowed one goal on like 46 shots the last game he played. Then had to sit the next game because some jerkoff used to play for that team. It feels like he’s been a double agent for that team and trying to get them a lottery pick.

Both of Markstrom and Keefe can go f*** themselves and walk the plank into a pit of crocodiles for that one.

 

[My3Sons]

I don't get it, the Devils are very likely in the playoffs. It's a whole new season then, the deadline additions have mostly worked out, they won't be an easy out at least I don't think. Cheer up and eNJoy the ride!

It's frustrating given how the season has unfolded but after last season if they can hold on to a playoff spot they have improved markedly from last year. The issue I am having is where does the next step of improvement come from? Gritsyuk and Hameenaho? Nemec and Casey develop? Maybe if they can create enough cap space and add a legit top six guy that would help.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

It's frustrating given how the season has unfolded but after last season if they can hold on to a playoff spot they have improved markedly from last year. The issue I am having is where does the next step of improvement come from? Gritsyuk and Hameenaho? Nemec and Casey develop? Maybe if they can create enough cap space and add a legit top six guy that would help.

I'm kind of mourning that the team building vision I was digging: fast, attacking, high paced transition, skate them out of the rink has done a complete 180, especially with Jack Hughes out.

There's the Hughes brothers doing their thing, with Bratt as well, but that's it. It's not really a unique vision for winning games, just those three having some freedom to create chances in unique ways.

MAYBE they just got bad goaltending last year and abandoned an exciting team building strategy as a result when they didn't need to, or maybe it wasn't going to work and the pivot was necessary, especially on defense. One topic I don't really know if I can speak to, and hasn't really been brought up here is if Keefe deserves some blame for the bottom 6 being such a disaster offensively this year. Ruff for all his flaws created some exciting/effective bottom 6 lines.

Edit: Potentially Casey too, but it's remarkable how much he sticks out when he plays isn't it, genuine offensive creativity on display.

 

[NJDevils17]

It's frustrating given how the season has unfolded but after last season if they can hold on to a playoff spot they have improved markedly from last year. The issue I am having is where does the next step of improvement come from? Gritsyuk and Hameenaho? Nemec and Casey develop? Maybe if they can create enough cap space and add a legit top six guy that would help.

Grits middle six and then….?

We paid market price for a guy who is probably a bottom pair defenseman BUT ($4M Kovacevic) that $$ would’ve been really useful elsewhere like this.

 

[Bleedred]

Grits middle six and then….?

We paid market price for a guy who is probably a bottom pair defenseman BUT ($4M Kovacevic) that $$ would’ve been really useful elsewhere like this.

I’d rather have Kovacevic at $4 million than two more years of Dillon at that same exact price.

But he had to give Dillon three years, just like he had to give Erik “I haven’t played two full years in a row with the same team in like 4 years” Haula three years.

This is kind of where the Palat contract is also starting to rear its ugly head.

 

[TrufleShufle]

It's frustrating given how the season has unfolded but after last season if they can hold on to a playoff spot they have improved markedly from last year. The issue I am having is where does the next step of improvement come from? Gritsyuk and Hameenaho? Nemec and Casey develop? Maybe if they can create enough cap space and add a legit top six guy that would help.

Maybe next year Palat takes the next step and breaks out finally.

 

[theoptimist]

I mentioned Brett Pesce because we weren’t rumored to be a destination until about a week before free agency began. He’s fine, but I wanted a Pesce-equivalent forward to play 3C.

It’s also becoming apparent who watches the games and the folks who come in with fly-by commentary, and worse, advanced analytics to support whatever spurious correlation they think is sexy.

It’s ridiculous to think our center depth was satisfactory at the end of the 23-24 season when we saw the tragedy that was Timo-Lazar-Mercer. Again, that’s inexcusable. We did it again this year with Timo-Dowling-Mercer!

It is embarrassing. Stop doing mental gymnastics for this team.

Fire Fitz and get a 3C.

 

[GameSeven]

I miss Jack

 

[My3Sons]

I mentioned Brett Pesce because we weren’t rumored to be a destination until about a week before free agency began. He’s fine, but I wanted a Pesce-equivalent forward to play 3C.

It’s also becoming apparent who watches the games and the folks who come in with fly-by commentary, and worse, advanced analytics to support whatever spurious correlation they think is sexy.

It’s ridiculous to think our center depth was satisfactory at the end of the 23-24 season when we saw the tragedy that was Timo-Lazar-Mercer. Again, that’s inexcusable. We did it again this year with Timo-Dowling-Mercer!

It is embarrassing. Stop doing mental gymnastics for this team.

Fire Fitz and get a 3C.

They have one potetially

 

[Triumph]

Now let’s see the Jake Allen posts. Congrats on needing a significant injury to still be mostly wrong on the other guy.

It's comedy at this point. Imagine just waiting for the team to lose so you can quote yourself saying a bunch of doom and gloom shit from 9 months ago.