Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

[Devils Trap]

Nope. Panthers

Good move, wish we did that

 

[britdevil]

Florida and Tampa loading up.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Florida and Tampa loading up.

Best rivalry in the league right now IMO. The games are dirty and physical when they play

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

time for Fitz to do that nepotism!!

 

[None Shall Pass]

I can see the arguments, but I don't know if I'd call Fitz a bad drafter.

He took over in 2020. We've since gotten Mercer, Daws, Luke, Nemec, and Casey so far as successes (=Playing or will play in the NHL for some indeterminate amount of games). Lenni, Yegorov, and Silayev all look pretty promising to me. Muk can be, too, even though we no longer have him.

Obviously forward returns aren't great but on numbers alone, and I'd love to see better (who wouldn't?), but it seems about average to me.

 

[fire Fitzgerald]

There is no world where 7 million for the next 5 years is only worthy of a 40 point player who also is not good defensively.

Hallo!

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Hating on Timo when Palat, Haula, Lazar, Bastian, MacDermid are on the cap for like ~12-13M on the cap is something

 

[BostonDevil]

Don’t forget Haula…

Never forget Haula

 

[Rhodes 81]

I don’t get The Fitz hate. He is highly regarded around the NHL and got high marks for his off season moves. Markstrom, Pecse, Keefe. Each one a solid move but he got all three over the summer. Not to mention Timo the year before, a much coveted 40-goal scorer.

I’ll wait and see see how things play out the next couple of weeks.

For me, most of his moves have been fine in a vacuum but overall he took one of the top mix of prospect pools and young players we've seen in this league in the last decade and turned it into a team that is win now and has basically nothing as far as prospects and picks outside of our top 3 D prospects.

I thought we gave up quite a bit for Meier when that trade occurred given the cap chunk it was going to take to keep him as well, but it made sense to try. Meier has not lived up to expectations but I feel a lot of that is due to injuries last year and bad luck for parts of this season so I'll give him a pass.

I thought the Toffoli trade was fine but we needed to compete that year for it to pay off. I don't think there was ever a world where we re-sign Toffoli so given how bad we ended up being last year, losing a serviceable and versatile mid-six player plus a mid-round pick hurts.

From that point on is where I really lost some faith. Held on to Holtz too long and dragged him publicly before trading him, possibly in the same boat with Mercer at this point. Gave Dillon a 3 year contract for some reason (I think Dillon is actively bad, haven't been around here enough lately to know the prevailing opinion). Whatever the hell trading for and re-signing MacDermid was about. Giving up a 1st in the Markstrom trade. Investing so much more cap space in the defense this year when there were clear deficiencies in the forwards. Consistently drafting low-ceiling wingers in the mid-late rounds. Consistently giving up picks one round higher than the market seems to bare, or tying conditions to nearly every one which makes it more difficult to negotiate with them later.

Now I'll be clear that I like Mercer and was in the camp of not wanting to trade him when he was rumored to be on the block. I like Toffoli for Rango and a 3rd in a vacuum. I was saying for months that Noesen would be a target of mine and then we got him and that's been proven to be a good move. I thought Keefe was the best option out there and he's drastically improved the team defense (potentially at the cost of offense but I digress).

And I get you can't plug every hole. To some extent just looking at the team, when you're paying your top 4 forwards as high of a % of the cap as we are you're banking on them carrying and that hasn't happened consistently since December. It's bad luck that Mercer, Haula, Lazar, Bastian, Tatar, and Palat are all having their worst seasons as Devils in the same year. They needed a couple of those guys to live up to expectations at least.

But when we're talking about bad luck this often, with a team he has fully sculpted now and an ever decreasing pool of future assets and no longer having the identity that made them successful when they were still playing primarily with the talent his predecessor brought in, you start to question the GM because eventually you're out of others to blame.

 

[aero8279]

 

[Bleedred]

I was flamed beyond comprehension a month ago for saying fire fitzgerald.

But you'll find no gatekeeping here. You're all welcome to hop on board. This oaf is ruining our franchise.

If we had more playoff berths while he was here I wouldn't complain much, but he's about to have had more time than Ray Shero, with just as many playoff berths in the same numbers of years, this season's results pending. And he's actually been the head GM longer than Shero has at this point, but I forget when they named him perma GM. July-August of 2020? Shero was May of 2015 and out by second week of January of 2020. So that's 4 years and 8 months. Fitz is around 4 years and 7-8 months now. And Shero walked in the door with basically nothing of value, other than a 29 year old elite goalie going into his final good season.

He had to have come into this season with the task of either saving the world or choosing his destructor and perishing before everybody else.

And he talks too much (when he actually does talk) and repeats dumb platitudes like Rome wasn't built in a day. And talks about mindless, irrelevant shit like dress codes. He sounds like a guy who loves to hear himself talk.

Some of these contracts.....Did he really need to give Haula and Dillon the third year? Maybe Dillon he had as it was UFA, which doesn't mean he should have. Haula he did not have to at all.

Not firing Dave Rogalski was a HUGGGEEEEE red flag at the time, but ironically Dave Rogalski's department has had little to do with what's turned into a disaster of a season.

No way he can survive this if we miss the playoffs. I don't care if half the rest of the team have season ending injuries by getting torn up slam dancing at a concert.

The ovation he will get in the season finale will not be pretty. It'll make ''Fire Lindy'' (BOTH times) look pretty pale. Especially if we are officially eliminated by the time that game ends. As a matter of fact, I could totally see the home crowd turning on him even sooner. It might not be tomorrow night, but they'll certainly be cranky with the results of the road trip, Jack AND the results of the last 9 going on 10 weeks now. Just look at how much the posters on here have turned against him since the last time we even played a game.


If we make the playoffs, he won't be fired and I don't really think he should be, but his stock has plummeted with me big time.

 

[Dialamo]

Hating on Timo when Palat, Haula, Lazar, Bastian, MacDermid are on the cap for like ~12-13M on the cap is something

It's super frustrating to see him be so snakebitten and he plays dumb at times, but he's overall playing well this season and there's plenty of time for him to turn it around in the scoring department during the duration of his deal.

 

[Killing Joke]

I can see the arguments, but I don't know if I'd call Fitz a bad drafter.

He took over in 2020. We've since gotten Mercer, Daws, Luke, Nemec, and Casey so far as successes (=Playing or will play in the NHL for some indeterminate amount of games). Lenni, Yegorov, and Silayev all look pretty promising to me. Muk can be, too, even though we no longer have him.

Obviously forward returns aren't great but on numbers alone, and I'd love to see better (who wouldn't?), but it seems about average to me.

Here’s why Tom sucks at drafting. Holtz over Rossi, Perfetti, Lundell, Askarov. Shakir over the forwards available. Nemec over Cooley and Wright. Silayev is a bad pick over Buium and Dickinson, he has no offense and has yet to develope a breakout / good first pass.
Stillman in the fist round.

His talent evaluation is bad.

 

[RSeen]

I can see the arguments, but I don't know if I'd call Fitz a bad drafter.

He took over in 2020. We've since gotten Mercer, Daws, Luke, Nemec, and Casey so far as successes (=Playing or will play in the NHL for some indeterminate amount of games). Lenni, Yegorov, and Silayev all look pretty promising to me. Muk can be, too, even though we no longer have him.

Obviously forward returns aren't great but on numbers alone, and I'd love to see better (who wouldn't?), but it seems about average to me.

Nemec was a #2 pick lol. How in the world would you draft there and not have the player play in the NHL - that does not count as a good pick.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Here’s why Tom sucks at drafting. Holtz over Rossi, Perfetti, Lindell, Askarov. Shakir over the forwards available. Nemec over Cooley and Wright. Silayev is a bad pick over Buium and Dickinson, he has no offense and has yet to develope a breakout / good first pass.
Stillman in the fist round.

man you have not watched one single second of Silayev, please stop this nonsense. The people that actually do watch him say the literal complete opposite.

also lol @ Shakir over "the forwards available."

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Muk was used to trade for a power forward who's locked up with this core for the foreseeable future. Based on pure asset management, it was a good pick. Silayev over Dickinson and Buium was fine too.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Triumph]

I can see the arguments, but I don't know if I'd call Fitz a bad drafter.

He took over in 2020. We've since gotten Mercer, Daws, Luke, Nemec, and Casey so far as successes (=Playing or will play in the NHL for some indeterminate amount of games). Lenni, Yegorov, and Silayev all look pretty promising to me. Muk can be, too, even though we no longer have him.

Obviously forward returns aren't great but on numbers alone, and I'd love to see better (who wouldn't?), but it seems about average to me.

I think the argument for him as a bad drafter is lower down in the draft, where the Devils are drafting more absolute clunkers. Obviously it's harder to evaluate a GM for those types of picks because he is not the one outright making them, but the scouting staff is operating under his guidance and they seem to have changed their tack quite a bit since Shero was GM.

You won't hit on most of your picks, but ideally most of your picks would turn out to be decent pro players somewhere, and they're not hitting that threshold often enough IMO. The bottom 4 picks of 2022 might all wash out. Can't have that sort of thing happen regularly.

 

[Simon Nemec]

Nemec was a #2 pick lol. How in the world would you draft there and not have the player play in the NHL - that does not count as a good pick.

So the Devils just chose to not have Nemec play? Thats what youre insinuating?

Because that isnt true at all lol

And he did play in the NHL.. at 19 years old turning 20, playing ~20 minutes a night

 

[Alex NJD]

For me, most of his moves have been fine in a vacuum but overall he took one of the top mix of prospect pools and young players we've seen in this league in the last decade and turned it into a team that is win now and has basically nothing as far as prospects and picks outside of our top 3 D prospects.

I thought we gave up quite a bit for Meier when that trade occurred given the cap chunk it was going to take to keep him as well, but it made sense to try. Meier has not lived up to expectations but I feel a lot of that is due to injuries last year and bad luck for parts of this season so I'll give him a pass.

I thought the Toffoli trade was fine but we needed to compete that year for it to pay off. I don't think there was ever a world where we re-sign Toffoli so given how bad we ended up being last year, losing a serviceable and versatile mid-six player plus a mid-round pick hurts.

From that point on is where I really lost some faith. Held on to Holtz too long and dragged him publicly before trading him, possibly in the same boat with Mercer at this point. Gave Dillon a 3 year contract for some reason (I think Dillon is actively bad, haven't been around here enough lately to know the prevailing opinion). Whatever the hell trading for and re-signing MacDermid was about. Giving up a 1st in the Markstrom trade. Investing so much more cap space in the defense this year when there were clear deficiencies in the forwards. Consistently drafting low-ceiling wingers in the mid-late rounds. Consistently giving up picks one round higher than the market seems to bare, or tying conditions to nearly every one which makes it more difficult to negotiate with them later.

Now I'll be clear that I like Mercer and was in the camp of not wanting to trade him when he was rumored to be on the block. I like Toffoli for Rango and a 3rd in a vacuum. I was saying for months that Noesen would be a target of mine and then we got him and that's been proven to be a good move. I thought Keefe was the best option out there and he's drastically improved the team defense (potentially at the cost of offense but I digress).

And I get you can't plug every hole. To some extent just looking at the team, when you're paying your top 4 forwards as high of a % of the cap as we are you're banking on them carrying and that hasn't happened consistently since December. It's bad luck that Mercer, Haula, Lazar, Bastian, Tatar, and Palat are all having their worst seasons as Devils in the same year. They needed a couple of those guys to live up to expectations at least.

But when we're talking about bad luck this often, with a team he has fully sculpted now and an ever decreasing pool of future assets and no longer having the identity that made them successful when they were still playing primarily with the talent his predecessor brought in, you start to question the GM because eventually you're out of others to blame.

Great post, I think you did a great job articulating a lot of the feelings people on this board have but haven't been able to put into words

 

[Simon Nemec]

The Simon Nemec hate has officially reached 'Im just biased and impatient' levels, sorry to say

98% of NHL defenseman dont make the league before 21. But Im expected to believe the team gave up on him before then?

So because 2-3 examples of high draft pick defenseman coming up early didnt work out, Im expected to ignore the other 98% of defensmen's development trajectory

Its become very tiresome, listening to many talk down on Simon simply because they want a new shiny toy for the offense

 

[RSeen]

So the Devils just chose to not have Nemec play? Thats what youre insinuating?

Because that isnt true at all lol

And he did play in the NHL.. at 19 years old turning 20, playing ~20 minutes a night

No I am not saying that. The guy I responded to is implying that the Devils deserve credit for drafting a player that played in the NHL in Nemec - but there is no #2 pick that doesn't do that. They only deserve praise if he excels or turns out to be a good pick relative to his draft position - and right now that is not the case.

 

[Alex NJD]

Muk was used to trade for a power forward who's locked up with this core for the foreseeable future. Based on pure asset management, it was a good pick. Silayev over Dickinson and Buium was fine too.

Ya I think people are already forgetting that for the longest time Silayev wasn't even expected to be available by our pick. Scouts had him as high as top 3/5. Very much in conversation for BPA

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I like Dumoulin the player and the fit; but the retention is very interesting

My final guess is Dylan Cozens is soon to be a New Jersey Devil. A guy who can play center and then swap to wing if needed, bigger frame but skilled too. 7.1m cap hit for five more years

Add in a rental or (preferably) two-year term third liner and thats just about all the LTIR money

Just a fun guess!

(Reposted)

Cozens is Mercer 2.0. Started promissing but has fizzled out to be medicore. I rather keep the player with a $4m cap hit as opposed to a $7m cap hit that is a 0.5ppg disappointment.

 

[Simon Nemec]

No I am not saying that. The guy I responded to is implying that the Devils deserve credit for drafting a player that played in the NHL in Nemec - but there is no #2 pick that doesn't do that. They only deserve praise if he excels or turns out to be a good pick relative to his draft position - and right now that is not the case.

Fair enough

But he did excel at 19 in the NHL. Most were stating he didnt seem to be out of place, before he hit the proverbial rookie wall that is

Makar, Fox, Quinn... all of these guys are offensive studs who took a while (in Makars case he still is) to figure it out defensively; why can we not give Nemec the same rope?