Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Triumph]

They were number #1 with a hot start and then fell off when teams adjusted and the games got tighter. Last year they started hot on the PP and then when it mattered they fell off. This year, same thing.
What’s their percentage that past few months

Where was the goal they needed last night?
Where was the several goals they needed in big PP spots throughout the year in a tight game?

It doesn’t matter if they’re record breaking in a season long PP%. It’s not consistent enough, does not convert when it’s really needed, and even when they don’t convert and have good movement they never build momentum off off it.

There is so much more context than that stat.

lol

guy who doesn't understand what 27% means

The Devils have gotten worse at the power play over the recent months. But the rest of this is just classic blather.

 

[JK3]

The PP has fallen off a cliff since the new year, they had the stats on MSG two games ago, I think it was 21st in the league since the new year.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Also, if the Jack injury doesn’t wake up the team then nothing will. This is their last chance to right the ship. Maybe, just maybe they play with desperation in these last 20 and put up a record that is needed to get them in

That’s how I feel. I hope the team rallies around this.

Perfect time for a Timo revenge tour.

 

[SansaStark]

the games in October count the same as the games in March.

this notion that the PP has never come through in a "tight spot" in a "big game" (word salad nonsense) is just baseless.

That’s not true and you know it. Every single game counts more or less than another one. Each game is completely case specific to the team, their position in the standings and other factors.

As for the PP

What about last night?
Was that a big spot?

Shall we go through all the games this year against playoff opponents and see how they did on the PP? How about PP % when they’re down a goal? Can you pull that up for us?

 

[jkrdevil]

I and some others used that argument for Nolan Patrick too fwiw…a lot of his injuries happened the way Jack’s have now. I didn’t think they were really a big deal because they weren’t sign of a chronic issue but at a certain point it’s a big deal regardless. It changes the way you play and think.

Which is what the worry I originally expressed was.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The powerplay expecting to save them nightly is Rangers esque, maybe score 5v5 or get depth scoring. There's multiple ways to win a hockey game, you can't expect a 35% PP clip all year or whatever they were doing for the first half of the year. Teams also adjust to what elite special teams do.

That being said, the powerplay really didn't help against the Avs. Could started off that game well and they got scored on right after the Avs killed a penalty. Vegas won last night because of 2 timely powerplay goals. Their powerplay needs to be fixed but it's not something to harp on this year with the multitude of issues up front

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

That’s not true and you know it. Every single game counts more or less than another one. Each game is completely case specific to the team, their position in the standings and other factors.

As for the PP

What about last night?
Was that a big spot?

Shall we go through all the games this year against playoff opponents and see how they did on the PP? How about PP % when they’re down a goal? Can you pull that up for us?

no, LITERALLY that is not true. The games today count the same as last week count the same as October. If they hadn't won those games back then, they wouldn't be in the spot they are now, and vice versa.

Yes, last night they did not score a goal and lost to a very good team on the road on the 2nd night of a back to back. It happens. It is a long season.

No, I don't care to do that because strength of schedule in hockey is not a thing nor should we care about it.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I and some others used that argument for Nolan Patrick too fwiw…a lot of his injuries happened the way Jack’s have now. I didn’t think they were really a big deal because they weren’t sign of a chronic issue but at a certain point it’s a big deal regardless. It changes the way you play and think.

Completely different when you're talking about concussions in a contact sport. He won't care, if the surgery goes well or whatever he needs to do get back on the ice quicker happens, he'll be the same way as pre injury. The only thing that changes is his mentality the first week/months coming back. After that, he'll be the same Jack

 

[SansaStark]

lol

guy who doesn't understand what 27% means

The Devils have gotten worse at the power play over the recent months. But the rest of this is just classic blather.

I understand perfectly well. It means they have failed to achieve sustained success and continue and build off the hot start which, once again, doesn’t nearly matter as much as powerplays do now. Just speaks more to their mental fragility.

We will never agree. You want to cling to to being 5th in the league (for now)? Go right ahead. I have no doubts they’ll tumble down that list as the season goes on.

 

[HoliksGhost]

 

[Jersey Fresh]

They were number #1 with a hot start and then fell off when teams adjusted and the games got tighter. Last year they started hot on the PP and then when it mattered they fell off. This year, same thing.
What’s their percentage that past few months

Where was the goal they needed last night?
Where was the several goals they needed in big PP spots throughout the year in a tight game?

It doesn’t matter if they’re record breaking in a season long PP%. It’s not consistent enough, does not convert when it’s really needed, and even when they don’t convert and have good movement they never build momentum off off it.

There is so much more context than that stat.

The broadcast I think two games ago even showed the crazy down-trend for the PP. They were at like 18% in February. Pretty disingenuous to trot out their season PP conversion and ignore it's been bad as long as the team has been overall the past several months.

 

[guitarguyvic]

yes, I did:

Are you serious? That wasn’t a “bad stretch”…those 15 games are the only games he played that entire season because he suffered major injuries. You also conveniently leave out the fact that it’s actually a string 8 games early in the season and then 7 games at the end of the season, separated by months because of said injury. That’s the best you could come up with? It’s not at all comparable with Timo and Bratt being unable to score into an ocean for a quarter of a season without any injury excuse whatsoever. Not to mention that they are both supposed to be better than 2012 version of Travis Zajac.

Parise’s tough stretch is closer to comparable but still not nearly as bad. His worst string of games that season was 12 games where he only scored once. He went six games without a goal and then five games without a goal. Now let’s compare that to say, Timo Meier. He went a whopping 21 games with just a single goal - almost twice as long as Parise’s worst stretch. Timo also went a whopping 11 games without scoring, and then another 8 games without scoring, both worse than Parise’s worst. Keep in mind also that Zach finished that season with >30 goals, whereas Timo is on pace for closer to 20.

Likewise, Bratt’s worst stretch with just one goal lasted a whopping 16 games, and at one point he didn’t score a goal for 9 consecutive. He obviously gets a lot more leeway here because he was still putting up points in those games, but when you have not just one but multiple core forwards who go into goal droughts this egregious, that’s a big flaw in your core.

The non-stop spin to make it seem like these things are not a big deal is really something I don’t understand. We are fans, not NJ devils PR employees.

 

[Camille the Eel]

We've gone as our power play has gone this year. And when we've not been effective generally we have gotten pressured, as teams have jumped out on our smaller forwards to disrupt us. Even last night we lost the special teams battle. It's remarkable how many NHL games come down to this and not just our games.

Without Jack (and I'm sure he will be gone for at least some games, if not the rest for the regular season) zone entries will be an immediate issue. They were last year when he was gone and he's really the best in the league at making zone entries with possession. Irreplaceable as to that but we will have to cope. I'm not sure if it means Luke or Bratt or whomever.

But it also means that we can move Meier on to power play number one which will make us less vulnerable to pressure one on one. Because Timo can handle himself no matter who jumps on him. So puck retrieval and puck possession should improve.

This is a challenge for us and one we can meet. We've also been interesting when Hamilton has dropped down to the sideboards for one timers on the half wall. Instead of just parking himself up top. With Timo and Dougie on the side walls and Bratt taking Jack's place roaming around we may still be difficult to defend. Teams are going to have to respect the one timers from both sides.

 

[SansaStark]

no, LITERALLY that is not true. The games today count the same as last week count the same as October. If they hadn't won those games back then, they wouldn't be in the spot they are now, and vice versa.

Yes, last night they did not score a goal and lost to a very good team on the road on the 2nd night of a back to back. It happens. It is a long season.

No, I don't care to do that because strength of schedule in hockey is not a thing nor should we care about it.

but they are in that spot. And now it matters either more or just as much as it did earlier in the year. And what have they done? Nothing. Because they’re just not really that good. That’s it.

And I think you don’t want to pull up the stats because you know damn well they’ve been absolutely atrocious on the PP in spots that could turn a game around. They’ve been that way for years.

Plenty of folks here see it and call it like it is.
And you’re defending them, why?

They aren’t good. They weren’t good with Jack healthy, they weren’t good with Nico healthy, they’re not good with good goaltending or a better defensive structure. They’ve proved to be a collection of decent skaters who are soft mentally and physically.
That’s what this team is.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Bottom half of the league in PP and not beating a playoff team in 2025, if both of those things are true, saying "don't worry it happens to a lot of guys," is essentially gaslighting.

I understand not acting like the sky is falling, but you don't have to pretend rain just doesn't exist because you are afraid of the implications of it.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

but they are in that spot. And now it matters either more or just as much as it did earlier in the year. And what have they done? Nothing. Because they’re just not really that good. That’s it.

And I think you don’t want to pull up the stats because you know damn well they’ve been absolutely atrocious on the PP in spots that could turn a game around. They’ve been that way for years.

Plenty of folks here see it and call it like it is.
And you’re defending them, why?

They aren’t good. They weren’t good with Jack healthy, they weren’t good with Nico healthy, they’re not good with good goaltending or a better defensive structure. They’ve proved to be a collection of decent skaters who are soft mentally and physically.
That’s what this team is.

right, and if they hadnt won the October games or played as well as they did, they wouldnt be. Which is...exactly what I said?

you dont call anything "like it is". You disappear for months at a time when Jack is having insane stretches and then as soon as he gets injured you show back up screaming how you told us so. No one takes that kind of posting seriously.

Are you serious? That wasn’t a “bad stretch”…those 15 games are the only games he played that entire season because he suffered major injuries. You also conveniently leave out the fact that it’s actually a string 8 games early in the season and then 7 games at the end of the season, separated by months because of said injury. That’s the best you could come up with? It’s not at all comparable with Timo and Bratt being unable to score into an ocean for a quarter of a season without any injury excuse whatsoever. Not to mention that they are both supposed to be better than 2012 version of Travis Zajac.

Parise’s tough stretch is closer to comparable but still not nearly as bad. His worst string of games that season was 12 games where he only scored once. He went six games without a goal and then five games without a goal. Now let’s compare that to say, Timo Meier. He went a whopping 21 games with just a single goal - almost twice as long as Parise’s worst stretch. Timo also went a whopping 11 games without scoring, and then another 8 games without scoring, both worse than Parise’s worst. Keep in mind also that Zach finished that season with >30 goals, whereas Timo is on pace for closer to 20.

Likewise, Bratt’s worst stretch with just one goal lasted a whopping 16 games, and at one point he didn’t score a goal for 9 consecutive. He obviously gets a lot more leeway here because he was still putting up points in those games, but when you have not just one but multiple core forwards who go into goal droughts this egregious, that’s a big flaw in your core.

The non-stop spin to make it seem like these things are not a big deal is really something I don’t understand. We are fans, not NJ devils PR employees.

so what youre saying is, these things DO happen!

got it, glad we had this talk.

Bottom half of the league in PP and not beating a playoff team in 2025, if both of those things are true, saying "don't worry it happens to a lot of guys," is essentially gaslighting.

I understand not acting like the sky is falling, but you don't have to pretend rain just doesn't exist because you are afraid of the implications of it.

they beat the Lighting on January 11th. Playoff team. They have played 6 games vs playoff teams by my count since then.

6 games is not a big enough sample size to make any sort of claims about anything.

 

[guitarguyvic]

so what youre saying is, these things DO happen!

got it, glad we had this talk.

What an inane statement. These things do happen. When it involves your best forwards and long-term core players, that’s a f***ing problem.

Someone mentioned you are gaslighting, and I have to say it’s accurate at this point. There’s no other way to frame this constant firehose of pretending bad things aren’t bad things.

 

[Better Call Sal]

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I legitimately don't care or trust for a second what the team doctors have to say.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What an inane statement. These things do happen. When it involves your best forwards and long-term core players, that’s a f***ing problem.

Someone mentioned you are gaslighting, and I have to say it’s accurate at this point. There’s no other way to frame this constant firehose of pretending bad things aren’t bad things.

I never said that everything is great. If Jack is done, the season is over. Might as well pack it in.

You are the one that makes sweeping generalizations that "winning teams never have stretches like this!" or "players never have long stretches without producing consistently!" when they are not true. Over and over again you have been proven wrong.

You guys just shout about "consistency!" when you really don't even know what that is or what it looks like. If a player is a 0.5 ppg player, that doesn't mean that they will have a point every other game for all eternity. That isnt how things work. Every player has hot streaks and cold streaks.

 

[Mr Bojanglez]

Sometimes you just need a good cry

i hear that

 

[Triumph]

You don't even have to resort to dishonesty, Patrik Elias had 1 goal in 18 games to start off 99-2000 and had a stretch of 1 goal in 19 games in 2002-2003. Different scoring environments and all that, but it's just how hockey is, it is a game of streaks. The problem isn't just that Timo isn't scoring, it's that while Timo is having a downturn in scoring, the other players also aren't scoring.

Also weird how my scoring-without-Jack Hughes post went unremarked upon but I guess @guitarguyvic missed it. Oh well.

 

[CalamityX23]

If we go from out for the year to missing a couple of weeks, f***ing sign up for that asap.... for Hughes injury

Count our blessings and playoffs hope

 

[TheUnseenHand]

It's always something with this team...

 

[Bleedred]

I'm going through some kind of something mentally. I'm not quite sure what it is. It's a bit different than my previous bouts with depression. I'm gonna say it has something to do with getting past the halfway point in life. I really don't know what's wrong. I don't want any sympathy, but this team has done nothing to quell anything that's going on with me. As a matter of fact, everything about this team the last two months epitomizes my mental state of the last two months. There's times when I honestly wonder if the last two months of Devils hockey is nothing but a mirage and just something to match and mirror my mentally low morale. And that I'm just imagining all of this.

And as someone who isn't mean to people in real life and sometimes I even feel bad about trashing some player online, but I can tell you right now. I really don't give a single shit about badmouthing some washed up player that's set to make another $3.4 million (or whatever the number is) next year or badmouthing some GM who comes off as an arrogant prick anyway, who is probably going to be paid through 2030 whether he's working here or hosting a podcast with Lindy Ruff about what it's like to hear fire chanted before your name by 16500 fans in Newark.

And I really don't give a shit if I bitch about Mr. ''If my health was anything like my offensive touch and inability to create offense at a decent clip, I would probably miss every other game and instead of 0 games in my career''. He's honestly the biggest SHIT HEAD on my list right now. I spend more time bitching about wash ups with nothing left than the 23 year old who should be able to give us more.