Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Mgd31]

What is the point of Jake Evans? How is a guy with 1 goal and 3 points in 22 games going to do anything to our bottom 6?

Sure he is better than Justin Dowling, but who cares.

 

[Devs3cups]

Roster construction was fine when the team was playing a great brand of hockey in December. At some point it’s on the players to give more.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The only major tweak he made was bringing in Toffoli for Sharangovich who was a healthy scratch for the majority of the playoffs and due for a raise as an RFA and not re-signing Miles Wood and Tatar (both of whom weren't worth their respective contracts anyway). Toffoli ended up being a bad fit and he traded him.

The big reason why the forward depth crated is because:
1. McLeod situation
2. Mercer turning from solid player to barely making an impact.
3. Having faith in Holtz to break onto the team as a high draft pick.
4. Haula declining.

And mix those situations with not having any good forward prospects to supplement ended up cratering the forward depth on the roster. It wasn't about making making major changes post 2023, If Mercer and Holtz progressed like he hoped (and how many on this forum wanted him to give the young players a chance) and the McLeod situation didn't occur then the forward depth concern wouldn't even be an issue.

I think the lack of forward talent being drafted under him and the inability to find steals in UFA/trade market forward wise is a valid criticism. But completely ignoring the fact that he completely overhauled the defense and goaltending in one offseason while also building up the future depth in both with Silayev and Yegorov in favor of just constantly complaining about the lack of forward depth in an over the top way is just ridiculous.

He completely fixed the defense and goaltending in one offseason, can we at least give him the next trade deadline and offseason to try and fix the forward depth before we start with the over the top complaints.

I gave him credit for the defense but good for him? He's an NHL GM, he doesn't get a pat on the back for doing his job, like what are we doing here? We butchered Lou for the same shit with overpaying veterans on the forward side and not adding depth to Devils teams when they looked like they could be something special outside of 2012. Any other GM would get lambasted for this but not good old Fitz.

 

[Better Call Sal]

They're doing the same shit with Palmieri, a guy we should stay well clear of.

The only area I'll disagree on here (with all biases aside) is that he is a guy who can still finish. Something we're currently allergic to at the moment aside from Jack.

I think you could do worse for a middle six winger than bringing him back. Everyone can feel free to flame away at me.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Roster construction was fine when the team was playing a great brand of hockey in December. At some point it’s on the players to give more.

The bottom 6 and finishing were an issue from the first month of the season, only time they were consistently scoring were when they were getting shooting benders from various guys on the roster. They were never going to be able to play that game for a full 82 and it shows now. The hope is they get back to it in the playoffs and Markstrom being money for them there but who knows

 

[NJDevils17]

Yeah I actually put the large part of this on the players. Finishing below expected consistently is not exactly a Tom Fitz issue.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Since January 15th (love 2 pick arbitrary dates!)

NJ is at .464 point %
BOS is at (you guessed it) .464 point %
OTT is at .500 point %
NYR is at .633 but also just lost arguably their best player.

so yeah, they may have similar point %, but that doesn't imply they will be out of the playoffs COMPLETELY within 2 weeks. Lets and keep the discussion rational here, at least just a little bit. If you wanna scream into the void, take that to twitter.

I dont really care about games in hand or "strength of schedule". You guys always assume every team ever will win every game in hand and that is not how hockey works.

After the December stretch they had, we're now talking about being in a points race with Boston to finish out the year lol

Yeah I actually put the large part of this on the players. Finishing below expected consistently is not exactly a Tom Fitz issue.

Nah, the bottom 6 he brought is largely the issue when the top guys can't score. If you expect Jack Hughes, Bratt, Nico and Meier to show up for a full 82 or even 75 games then your roster is no different than the Taylor Hall Ray Shero rosters. Even if Timo scores a better clip, the bottom 6 is downright horrendous. We can't even get decent shifts out of the bottom 6 most nights let alone point production, that falls into the lap of the GM who made an emphasis to appease the toughness and grit boner that 80% of this fanbase had after the Carolina series

 

[devsfan8]

If The Habs wanted us to take Armia with Evans, would anyone be opposed to it? A few places I read their GM Hughes wpuld prefer to package them. He also said he wants a 1st which we do not have (unless it is 2026). But I'm sure we still have assets to make it work.

Basically 2 bottom 6 upgrades.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

i think it’s perfectly rational to think that if the devils lose 3 or 4 against top tier teams, the rangers could make up the 4 game difference over the next couple of weeks.

you want to harp on 2 weeks? great maybe not. but there’s 20 games left and a 464 winning percentage isn’t going to get it done i can guarantee that

like seriously we’re talking about making the playoffs you want to take one small point of my rant to try and disprove the whole thing, the point is the same

Yes, thinking its somehow rational for a team to lose 8 points of ground in 2 weeks is insane, I am sorry. I don't care who the teams are or who the opponents are.

the Devils are not currently in danger of missing the playoffs. Could that change? Sure. Will it? I STRONGLY doubt it. To just assume every team behind NJ will go on heaters and the Devils will never win again is a weird mindset to have.

 

[Triumph]

Nah, the bottom 6 he brought is largely the issue when the top guys can't score. If you expect Jack Hughes, Bratt, Nico and Meier to show up for a full 82 or even 75 games then your roster is no different than the Taylor Hall Ray Shero rosters. Even if Timo scores a better clip, the bottom 6 is downright horrendous. We can't even get decent shifts out of the bottom 6 most nights let alone point production, that falls into the lap of the GM who made an emphasis to appease the toughness and grit boner that 80% of this fanbase had after the Carolina series

People keep repeating this sort of thing when it isn't true, the truth is that the Devils haven't added a young forward in that time. Nobody has graduated to the roster in 2 years, which is the real problem. Cotter's a nice addition, but it's not fixing the fact that both Haula and Lazar look done - Lazar is a PTO/extra forward next season for someone and then his NHL career is probably over. Bastian and Tatar are fine on the 4th line.

The problem with that is in the drafting from 2019 and 2020 and also with the fact that we're missing a couple of picks from that era - another 23 year old Bastian type would be great right about now.

 

[RSeen]

If The Habs wanted ua to take Armia with Evans, would anyone be opposed to it? A few places I read their GM Hughes wpuld prefer to package them. He also said he wants a 1st which we do not have (unless it is 2026). But I'm sure we still have assets to make it work.

Basically 2 bottom 6 upgrades.

If we are going to go that route - are you adding them to play together? One of Noesen or Mercer gets bumped to L4 then. Though perhaps you just have Evans on L3 and Armia L4.

Regardless, we would need to add a top 6 forward still. Would argue it is needed even more if we are making a big push.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Bastian is an absolute JAG and Tatar has no business on the roster either.

 

[CalamityX23]

Our Devils needs to get on a f***ing win streak... give us 3 in a row at least please....

with that said, we need help.... whether its an improvement to the top 6 which organically pushes a current top six to the bottom 6 or find help in the bottom 6....

Palmeri is actually a great add on as he fits in just right with either 1st or 2nd line....
Brock Nelson would've been huge but i don't think he's moving, Islander for life, respect.

Dont want overpay on Evans.... hearing/reading about a 1st, idk... that's definitely overpay alone.

 

[IDEKWTM]

Just checked the stats, Timo Meier has outscored Zetterlund by a combined 12 points in the past two season.

 

[Devs3cups]

Just checked the stats, Timo Meier has outscored Zetterlund by a combined 12 points in the past two season.

I miss Zetterlund, but I doubt he’d be getting the type of opportunity that he’s getting in SJ with us. Could we use him in the bottom 6 right now though? Hell yeah. Taking him over Holtz was a solid move on Grier’s part.

 

[Lou Bloom]

I gave him credit for the defense but good for him? He's an NHL GM, he doesn't get a pat on the back for doing his job, like what are we doing here? We butchered Lou for the same shit with overpaying veterans on the forward side and not adding depth to Devils teams when they looked like they could be something special outside of 2012. Any other GM would get lambasted for this but not good old Fitz.

It’s about the over the top reaction, he deserves criticism but despite him being in a playoff spot, making large strides in fixing the defense and goaltending we have fans being overdramatic that he didn’t fix every single issue on this team in a single offseason.

The team as it currently stands has a great core at forward that’s all in their prime and signed onto good contracts, a defense that is setup both short term and long term and a goaltending situation that’s better than most currently in the NHL. The forward depth is a clear issue but the reaction to the issue is ridiculous.

 

[Smitty426]

I literally said he was good at trades...? And LOL, Dillon has been putrid ass for most of the year + Pesce has been garbage since the start of the new year and one of the reasons this team can't do anything on the back end since that pair with Luke has completely disintegrated metrics/play wise.

Dillon was put with Dougie because we did not have Pesce and Luke to start the season. I do agree that Keefe does not try and find some adjustements by tweaking. EVERYONE has been putrid since the new year dont leave it all at Pesces feet! Luke is going to be a work in progress defensively, get used to it! He was terrible last year and he was good early and less so after Xmas (again, so has everyone). Luke seems to be able to be a breakout machine but Keefe has stop him from entering zones, I actually think with his speed he backs off defenders and it gives them a differnt wrinkle to zone entries. They should really consider it especially when Jack cant get in. they are in a big funk and I really think scraping the entire 4th line would do wonders (not happening I know). The depth scoring is their biggest issue and its not the way Fitz does business but some rentals are the way to go (with the idea that some of them are resigned)

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Also, I don't really understand the fascination with Jake Evans anymore. He is a fine player, and I would take him (if the price were right), but this notion that he is some high in-demand asset is weird to me.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

People keep repeating this sort of thing when it isn't true, the truth is that the Devils haven't added a young forward in that time. Nobody has graduated to the roster in 2 years, which is the real problem. Cotter's a nice addition, but it's not fixing the fact that both Haula and Lazar look done - Lazar is a PTO/extra forward next season for someone and then his NHL career is probably over. Bastian and Tatar are fine on the 4th line.

The problem with that is in the drafting from 2019 and 2020 and also with the fact that we're missing a couple of picks from that era - another 23 year old Bastian type would be great right about now.

Lazar was a mediocre to bad add in the first place, he was a 13th forward in the 2023 playoffs and got thrusted into regular duty because McLeod turned out to be a POS to everyone's nightmares. Still, it's been a year almost since McLeod has been charged, you should be able to find a 4C that's serviceable and plays a similar game to McLeod. Haula is whatever, he played tremendous in 2022/2023 and was great in the playoffs. Haula's issue has always been consistency and why he's been on so many teams since he broke in with the Wild. I don't get too mad at Fitz for that, there's nothing he can do logically besides maybe giving Haula a lesser term for a year but that's absurd nitpicking. Cotter is an ok add but he's still beyond mediocre, a team like Vegas getting rid of a guy like that is red flags in itself. His shooting bender was masking his abysmal defensive game and we're seeing it now. Bastian shouldn't have been re-upped. Tatar is ok, but again, he seems like he's virtually done and you can't bank him on him in the playoffs as his career as shown. The bottom 6 is just a mish-mash of garbage in hoping it'll work magically.

The graduating part won't matter, Lenni and Gritsyuk will most likely be NHLers at some point but that's still a god awful track record for a GM to have on the forward side.

It’s about the over the top reaction, he deserves criticism but despite him being in a playoff spot, making large strides in fixing the defense and goaltending we have fans being overdramatic that he didn’t fix every single issue on this team in a single offseason.

The team as it currently stands has a great core at forward that’s all in their prime and signed onto good contracts, a defense that is setup both short term and long term and a goaltending situation that’s better than most currently in the NHL. The forward depth is a clear issue but the reaction to the issue is ridiculous.

Which is why it makes even more frustrating because the core is most likely not the issue and it'll get blamed if they somehow come up short. And if it's so easy to build a bottom 6, why has it taken Fitz most of his GMing tenure to figure it out? They're wasting their core's primes years because the GM is a wishy washy moron on that side.

Also, I don't really understand the fascination with Jake Evans anymore. He is a fine player, and I would take him (if the price were right), but this notion that he is some high in-demand asset is weird to me.

Habs player has to do with 99% of it

 

[njdevil26]

For me the problem is, was, and remains bottom six depth and scoring.

Goaltending and defense is more than fine. If the bottom six chipped in, we wouldn't be hyper analyzing the lack of scoring from Bratt and Meier (though they need to score more).

We need either a third line center or a top six winger to push other guys down.

Haula has been shockingly bad this year. Lazar and Bastian are never going to produce anything. Mercer has been up and down. When the season started I assumed the third line was going to be Palat-Haula-Mercer and we would be rolling deep.... yikes.

 

[NjDevsRR]

"nice surprise". Whatever tf that even means lol

As I said. Lets have next week play out before we crucify everyone. We don’t know what will happen. What if a trade is made that also helps this team in future seasons? We do have some young pieces to throw around here. Just because we are linked to an Evans doesn’t mean something else will manifest.


Also, it wasn’t that deep of a post. I was simply hoping for a nice surprise next week.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I have very little faith in this team right now. They've have next to no cushion anymore and been on a slide since the new year with no sign of turning a corner. They also have shown to be absolutely incapable of putting together a winning streak for going on two whole seasons now.

Fitz needs to make a move or two. The bottom 6 is simply dead weight, they go out there for a free skate every night.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Lazar was a mediocre to bad add in the first place, he was a 13th forward in the 2023 playoffs and got thrusted into regular duty because McLeod turned out to be a POS to everyone's nightmares. Still, it's been a year almost since McLeod has been charged, you should be able to find a 4C that's serviceable and plays a similar game to McLeod. Haula is whatever, he played tremendous in 2022/2023 and was great in the playoffs. Haula's issue has always been consistency and why he's been on so many teams since he broke in with the Wild. I don't get too mad at Fitz for that, there's nothing he can do logically besides maybe giving Haula a lesser term for a year but that's absurd nitpicking. Cotter is an ok add but he's still beyond mediocre, a team like Vegas getting rid of a guy like that is red flags in itself. His shooting bender was masking his abysmal defensive game and we're seeing it now. Bastian shouldn't have been re-upped. Tatar is ok, but again, he seems like he's virtually done and you can't bank him on him in the playoffs as his career as shown. The bottom 6 is just a mish-mash of garbage in hoping it'll work magically.

The graduating part won't matter, Lenni and Gritsyuk will most likely be NHLers at some point but that's still a god awful track record for a GM to have on the forward side.



Which is why it makes even more frustrating because the core is most likely not the issue and it'll get blamed if they somehow come up short. And if it's so easy to build a bottom 6, why has it taken Fitz most of his GMing tenure to figure it out? They're wasting their core's primes years because the GM is a wishy washy moron on that side.



Habs player has to do with 99% of it

Because he wasn’t counting on Mercer and Holtz declining/stagnating post 2022-2023 season (and basically every fan was vocal at the time that Fitz should gift Holtz a spot in the lineup), McLeod situation and Haula to decline so rapidly from solid 3C to barely NHL caliber. Mix that in with the lack of forward prospect talent and you’re left with poor depth.

And he deserves criticism for that, but he also should be given the opportunity to change course and fix that mistake like he’s done with goaltending and defense.

If he fails this coming trade deadline/offseason to improve the forward situation than he absolutely should be put on the hot seat but people are being overly dramatic with the current situation.

 

[Satans Hockey]

I think they still make the playoffs but with this upcoming schedule, if they don't get a result in Utah then it's Vegas on the second day of a back to back and then Dallas and Winnipeg. Could be in a really bad spot with this schedule coming up if they don't get some wins.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Because he wasn’t counting on Mercer and Holtz declining/stagnating post 2022-2023 season (and basically every fan was vocal at the time that Fitz should gift Holtz a spot in the lineup), McLeod situation and Haula to decline so rapidly from solid 3C to barely NHL caliber. Mix that in with the lack of forward prospect talent and you’re left with poor depth.

And he deserves criticism for that, but he also should be given the opportunity to change course and fix that mistake like he’s done with goaltending and defense.

If he fails this coming trade deadline/offseason to improve the forward situation than he absolutely should be put on the hot seat but people are being overly dramatic with the current situation.

Holtz was cooked once Jack decided he wanted to become Ovechkin, the selection was made on the basis of the first 2 years of Jack's career where his shot was a peashooter. Was it smart in totality making a top 10 pick on that basis? No, but I don't blame Holtz being the pick. I wanted Rossi/Perfetti that draft but it's not his biggest issue. I think Mercer is arguably fine right now, he just thinks he's better than he is, he's also playing for a future contract. Him holding out was the dumbest thing he could've done because he's not a guy who can miss time and not miss a beat.

But that's also what I'm alluding to, what makes you think that he'll be able to fix what he's created? That's all I'm saying, he's had enough time to build a bottom 6. He's built a very good backend with less time and a bottom 6 is not all that hard to create considering he had some decent pieces there to build with to begin with. It's his over reactionary nature that has me worried, he swings too hard to the opposing side based on a season. That's not how a good GM operates.

I think they still make the playoffs but with this upcoming schedule, if they don't get a result in Utah then it's Vegas on the second day of a back to back and then Dallas and Winnipeg. Could be in a really bad spot with this schedule coming up if they don't get some wins.

I don't think playoffs are in question, I just worry if Fitz handicaps this team's ceiling with the consistent overreactions he has. He's a very short sighted GM with how his moves are made.