Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Edmonton East]

Fitz has gotta be shown the door already. This season, regardless of how it ends, demonstrates he just isn't it. He's an idiot. This isn't to boast, but if some dweeb on a message board like myself can point out this teams' major flaws months in advance, why can't the guy getting paid millions do his damn job? Sick of seeing bums defend this guy every season. The whole timing of the goalie moves last season and finally moving on from Ruff made no sense. And now we have the same type of indefensible decision making (or lack there of) this season. I said July 1st:

So I'm open to a lot of different viewpoints regarding what remaining moves the Devs have to make before opening night. However, not making any more additions is not one of them. That isn't acceptable. It'd be batshit insane to go into the season banking on a rebound+ breakout from Mercer AND 100% perfect forward health.

Especially when you just added a 35 year old goalie with 2 years left and have no 1st round pick next year. Rolling into the season with 1-2 holes in your top 6 and no C depth isn't acceptable considering the circumstances. Contradictory moves are how organizations end up in purgatory for a decade+.

I'd be very surprised if there isn't an addition prior to opening night. Wouldn't be the first time though.

GDT: Post in thread '2024 Free Agency - July 1st - 12 P.M.'

Jul 1, 2024

Well Mercer counts as a top-6 addition coming in as I suspect hes up there permanently from now on

So really Palat doesnt have to be replaced; one spot in your top-6 to a third line guy is normal and also leaves us space

Unless, of course, its Henrique Tarasenko or Sprong on a short deal; otherwise I keep my assets until the deadline or next offseason (if its not Casey for McGroarty)

So I'm open to a lot of different viewpoints regarding what remaining moves the Devs have to make before opening night. However, not making any more additions is not one of them. That isn't...

• Edmonton East

• 

 

[MadDevil]

tatar's signing made little sense at the time and seemed to be a panic move. he's not good enough to be in the top 6 and doesn't have the necessary intangibles to be in the bottom six. if haula wasn't here, he'd be the worst forward on the roster after macdermid.

Signing a cheap depth forward who previously had success with us made little sense? He's averaging under 11 minutes a night, and has been fine in that role.

 

[Edmonton East]

Signing a cheap depth forward who previously had success with us made little sense? He's averaging under 11 minutes a night, and has been fine in that role.

When you factor in their cap situation and team needs/makeup, he's right, it didn't make sense. The context matters.

 

[Triumph]

When you factor in their cap situation and team needs/makeup, he's right, it didn't make sense. The context matters.

How could it not make sense to sign a cheap forward who has been just fine in his role? The 'bottom 6' would be a complete sewer without Tatar - it's been bad with him, but he's been dragging everyone else along. That said, a harder bargain could've been driven there, I do find it hard to imagine him receiving similar offers, but who knows - a team like Chicago with no cap constraints might've been willing to pay a lot more.

 

[Guadana]

They are gonna move 1 of the 3 D prospects by start of next season. That's my prediction. It's the most realistic way to upgrade the top 6 long term.

Free agent market exist. As cap rise. As picks and lower level prospects. Teams are not trading every high level prospects for upgrading their "top-6". Mostly its a move from bad managers.
And impatient fans.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Free agent market exist. As cap rise. As picks and lower level prospects. Teams are not trading every high level prospects for upgrading their "top-6". Mostly its a move from bad managers.
And impatient fans.

I hear ya but Fitz has an awful track record in UFA for the most part especially with forwards

 

[Better Call Sal]

Tuna has probably been the "least bad" of the players in the bottom 6 as of late. Not saying much of anything at all, but he has been the most productive of that group over the last 16 or so games.

Tatar - 6 points in his last 16.
Bastian - 3 points in his last 17.
Haula - 0 for his last 27 (jesus).
Dowling - 2 for his last 27.
Cotter - 3 goals in his last 20, no assists.
Noesen - 3 goals, 5 points in his last 21. Haven't looked, but willing to bet these are all on the PP. The 3 goals certainly are.
Lazar - 3 points in his last 24 since he returned from injury.

Just underscores the main point that the bottom 6 is a mess. The focus on Tatar might be a bit of overkill, though.

 

[HoliksGhost]

tatar's signing made little sense at the time and seemed to be a panic move. he's not good enough to be in the top 6 and doesn't have the necessary intangibles to be in the bottom six. if haula wasn't here, he'd be the worst forward on the roster after macdermid.

For sure. I was not thrilled.

 

[BostonDevil]

For sure. I was not thrilled.

Nor was I

 

[Triumph]

Through everything, Tatar is once again a + player, his most common linemates are Bastian, Lazar, Dowling, Mercer, and Hischier. He'd be better at $1.5M, not sure how he got a raise coming off last season, but such is life.

 

[CalamityX23]

If Jack is out for the playoffs, I have a hard time seeing this team do anything in the playoffs. I’d rather stay put than overpay for rentals or give away valuable assets in a panic move.

If there’s a deal to be made for a player with term sure, but teams know we’re desperate.

Get healthy, regroup, fix the bottom 6 and run it back next year.

In the playoffs anything can happen... rather we get in and play to win..... who knows if Jack is eligible to come back(pending the injury). We lose? we lose lose nothing more..... Nemec, Hughes get more playoff time/experience as well as nico, bratt, timo, mercer...

I know we're not going to win the cup without him but this team played all season long not to earn top 3 just to fall out, i refuse to see us as last years Flyers....

besides, we ain't seeing our 1st rd pick anyways.... gotta be top 10 to keep it, so right now its not even close.

 

[theoptimist]

I remember having to tip toe around the 3C discussion this summer. I always had to preface with "we have two franchise centers, but..."

The fact is our top 2 centers haven't played a full season, ever. They were both close in some seasons. Entering the season with Haula and Lazar is inexcusable, especially Lazar. Ridiculous stuff after watching Meier-Lazar-Mercer stink last season.

You cannot excuse this decision. I commend Fitz, but this is his fault. He needs to go.

 

[Zacha37]

This is a trade that we just absolutely have to make.

 

[Edmonton East]

Free agent market exist. As cap rise. As picks and lower level prospects. Teams are not trading every high level prospects for upgrading their "top-6". Mostly its a move from bad managers.
And impatient fans.

1) I didn't say that's what they SHOULD do (it depends), but it's very possible. Could also be the required move.

2) Welcome to reality, where 31 other teams also have cap space and are bidding on UFAs. Remember the laughable Palat contract? And that was when Devs had relative cap leverage. They don't now. Pretty much every recent Cup team has made a critical trade that got them over the top btw. Difficult to build through UFA...problem is you have to actually get more value than you give a some point.

3) Bad managers trade material assets for old players when they still have holes and aren't contenders. You know, like moving a 1st and Bahl for a 35 year old goalie w/ 2 years left...when you are still cap pressed and have no C depth and another hole in the top 6. Markstrom has mostly been great obviously, but you can't make that move to contend NOW and not address the other holes. You either go for it or you build and, like you said, have patience. Cheaper options were available....and younger.

4) This team objectively has one of the worst forward prospect pools in the league. The entire top line is in their primes....how many more years do you wanna wait to materially upgrade the top 6/C depth?

 

[Guadana]

I hear ya but Fitz has an awful track record in UFA for the most part especially with forwards

Thats what we've got. Sending young future top-4 defensemen for top-6 winger was never a good strategy.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This is a trade that we just absolutely have to make.

McCann + Gourde would have us looking not too bad. I don’t think we can pull it off though.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

Fitz is going to try to do something but probably won't.

 

[Guadana]

1) I didn't say that's what they SHOULD do (it depends), but it's very possible. Could also be the required move.

2) Welcome to reality, where 31 other teams also have cap space and are bidding on UFAs. Remember the laughable Palat contract? And that was when Devs had relative cap leverage. They don't now. Pretty much every recent Cup team has made a critical trade that got them over the top btw. Difficult to build through UFA...problem is you have to actually get more value than you give a some point.

3) Bad managers trade material assets for old players when they still have holes and aren't contenders. You know, like moving a 1st and Bahl for a 35 year old goalie w/ 2 years left...when you are still cap pressed and have no C depth and another hole in the top 6. Markstrom has mostly been great obviously, but you can't make that move to contend NOW and not address the other holes. You either go for it or you build and, like you said, have patience. Cheaper options were available....and younger.

4) This team objectively has one of the worst forward prospect pools in the league. The entire top line is in their primes....how many more years do you wanna wait to materially upgrade the top 6/C depth?

1. yap. agree. hope he will not.

2. palat actually doesnt make it worser. He isnt great this year of course but we are telling about raising cap and even now we have space. We were in bidding wars for nashville forwards. If Palat saved us from overpaying for them - than thanks to Palat.

3. Bahl was never on the level with Nemec, Casey and Silayev. So yeah - go and trade Bahls and picks. But not prospects of high level. Of course if they can trade some of them for 24-28 yo center under control who is good positionally and has 65-70+ points track record - than okay, but I dont think someone will make this deal. Wingers? No thanks. We have two good wingers, we have Mercer with potential(we can upgrade him), we have Lenny and Gritsyuk. We dont need to spend top assets for wingers.

4. I dont wanna wait. I never said I wanna wait. I said I dont wanna trade young defensemen with top-4 pr even top-2 potential for wingers. Thats what I said. Wingers are available on the free agent market, on the trade market. For less.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

It would be nice if certain players didn't fall off a cliff this year. Haula is only 33 , Lazar around 30 , Bastian in his late 20's , Mercer not developing into a legit top 6 wing (stats wise)... Yeah stuff like that isnt really Fitzgerald's fault. None of those guys are really old either. I think some of the misses in the Draft like taking Chase Stilman and to an extent Nemec over Cooley/Wright are biting the Devils in the ass. That's not to say we have been bad overall at drafting though.

You can shoulder some of the blame on Fitzgerald but he addressed the goaltending, defense and getting bigger/tougher this past offseason. I'm not really to sure what I think about Keefe but he did bring in a coach who is an upgrade over Lindy. The hardest thing to do is build a high scoring team... You want him to keep trading away picks and prospects to patch holes ? If this team doesn't win anything then they will be back to rebuild mode in a few seasons. You think Jack will want to stay through that ?

 

[njdevil26]

I need Erik Haula off this team STAT.
I don't care if Fitz's only move at the deadline is begging and pleading for someone to take him and for Erik to waive his no trade. Addition by subtraction.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

It would be nice if certain players didn't fall off a cliff this year. Haula is only 33 , Lazar around 30 , Bastian in his late 20's , Mercer not developing into a legit top 6 wing (stats wise)... Yeah stuff like that isnt really Fitzgerald's fault. None of those guys are really old either. I think some of the misses in the Draft like taking Chase Stilman and to an extent Nemec over Cooley/Wright are biting the Devils in the ass. That's not to say we have been bad overall at drafting though.

You can shoulder some of the blame on Fitzgerald but he addressed the goaltending, defense and getting bigger/tougher this past offseason. I'm not really to sure what I think about Keefe but he did bring in a coach who is an upgrade over Lindy. The hardest thing to do is build a high scoring team... You want him to keep trading away picks and prospects to patch holes ? If this team doesn't win anything then they will be back to rebuild mode in a few seasons. You think Jack will want to stay through that ?

I mostly agree with this but want to address the stuff in bold.

1. Getting bigger and tougher screwed with the speed game that made us a threat. Keefe is good at mitigating that tradeoff but it's also exposed how bad we are at creating offense outside of that system.

2. I'm in the infancy of thinking that Jack might not be all that worth having around. Objectively, he is prone to shoulder injuries and those will never get better. Subjectively, I think he has an attitude problem and is the core reason for this team's mental fragility and inability to weather any kind of rough patch. If things work out with him, great! If not, just hope he doesn't break out somewhere else and hope he has the same diva attitude somewhere else.

 

[Guadana]

It would be nice if certain players didn't fall off a cliff this year. Haula is only 33 , Lazar around 30 , Bastian in his late 20's , Mercer not developing into a legit top 6 wing (stats wise)... Yeah stuff like that isnt really Fitzgerald's fault. None of those guys are really old either. I think some of the misses in the Draft like taking Chase Stilman and to an extent Nemec over Cooley/Wright are biting the Devils in the ass. That's not to say we have been bad overall at drafting though.

You can shoulder some of the blame on Fitzgerald but he addressed the goaltending, defense and getting bigger/tougher this past offseason. I'm not really to sure what I think about Keefe but he did bring in a coach who is an upgrade over Lindy. The hardest thing to do is build a high scoring team... You want him to keep trading away picks and prospects to patch holes ? If this team doesn't win anything then they will be back to rebuild mode in a few seasons. You think Jack will want to stay through that ?

Btw we dont now how Cooley or especially Wright would look in Devils circumstances. Nemec is looking fine for now. And with experience and bigger role he will develop his game.

I would say Holtz is biting our vsses more. Trades of young depth forwards too. Stillman was a bad pick, yeah, but I think we wouldnt draft Knives(same role) he was in the late second, we would not focus on Stankoven(we had smaller drivers already). Fitz could target Morrow and he isnt ready to an impact now.

 

[Devs3cups]

Not sure I understand the discourse around Jack having an attitude problem. Maybe I’ve missed some things but he seems liked by his teammates and the staff.

 

[Edmonton East]

Thats what we've got. Sending young future top-4 defensemen for top-6 winger was never a good strategy.

But the point is they already did, right? They've constantly moved material assets as if this team is a contender RIGHT NOW. As time has passed, now the top forwards are in their primes (aside from often injured Jack). So now if you pull back and start trying to build slow, you have an over the hill forward core and pretty much no one to replace them. Like I said in July, these type of contradictory moves by a GM put teams in purgatory forever. What made sense last offseason for THIS TEAM was to take a smaller swing at goalie (Allen trade never made sense either. This org blatantly doesn't understand the goalie market) like the Caps did and focus on adding C depth and a middle wing, both under 30. You certainly couldn't get NEITHER....but Fitz gonna Fitz. He's created a potential roster construction timing nightmare.

 

[Devs3cups]

Btw we dont now how Cooley or especially Wright would look in Devils circumstances. Nemec is looking fine for now. And with experience and bigger role he will develop his game.

I would say Holtz is biting our vsses more. Trades of young depth forwards too. Stillman was a bad pick, yeah, but I think we wouldnt draft Knives(same role) he was in the late second, we would not focus on Stankoven(we had smaller drivers already). Fitz could target Morrow and he isnt ready to an impact now.

Having Rossi or Jarvis would help a lot right now.