Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[Zippy316]

Any guesses on which goalie starts tomorrow?

Allen had his own net in practice today while daws shared with markstrom

Daws coming off a shutout

If I had to bet,

Allen against Colorado
Daws against Utah
Allen against Vegas
Markstrom against Dallas

I suppose there’s a chance the Devils may give Markstrom the Utah game if they feel he’s ready.

 

[Better Call Sal]

 

[dgibb10]

Yeah and JrFischer's definition of a bust is MUCH more unrealistic than most...to him if you're not a star player in the top ten or top six player after that then you're a bust. It's a bit more nuanced than that.

In the case of Zacha, sure you would have liked a better player at that spot but #6 overall the previous three years were Jake Virtanen, Sean Monahan and Hampus Lindholm. The three years after were Matt Thachuk, Cody Glass and Filip Zadina. Zacha's objectively better than three of those guys (Glass, Zadina and Virtanen) and Thachuk was the only real star among them. Monahan had a very short peak, but he'd be the second ranked player among those seven.

Zacha was a bad pick because of just how loaded that draft was.

 

[NJDevs26]

Yeah it looks worse graded on the 2016 curve since the top ten was unusually solid that year though Timo at #9 is kind of hilarious tbh, Sharks Timo was the kind of player they dreamed of Zacha becoming.

We still weren't even as big a loser in that draft as Boston, who had three firsts and picked nobody who was as good as the two guys picked right after them (Barzal and Kyle Connor).

 

[dgibb10]

If Fitz could get Quinn for that, I'd drive to Vancouver just to help him pack!!!!!!!!!

Sign Kovy and work from there. Quinn moves the Devils into a very serious Cup contender.

Possibly looks like this:
Quinn/Kovy
Siegenthaler/Dougie
Luke/Pesce
Not too much of a dream list!

And with these 3 in the wings -
Dillon (34, Devils) Now becomes #7.
Casey (21, rookie - (Devils/Comets) could play in either locale)
Silayev (18, KHL) - Projected to probably be here next year.

Silayev/Casey 1/2 cooking in Utica to begin next season?

Still in the system with the AHL Comets.
Misyul (24)
Vilen (21)
Hatakka (24)

Utica would look like:
Silayev/Casey
Misyul/White
Vilen/Hatakka

Still in the system, being followed, but haven't been signed.
Ethan Edwards (22, 3rd year NCAA Michigan)
Charlie Leddy (21, 3rd year NCAA Boston College)
Daniil Karpovich (20, VHL with a visit to both the KHL and MHL this season)

There area few other outliers, but I'll let them lie for now.

You cannot afford to add an 8 mill dman, then pay kovy 4, luke 8.6 and keep hamilton, and have Dillon as a 7

That team would be 600k over the cap and then you'd need to replace Mercer and find another forward

A Quinn trade would have Hamilton sent out.

100%.

There are VERY few dmen you play above Hamilton on PP. Quinn is one.

And Hamilton on PP2 is wasted value, let alone Luke not on PP at all.

 

[NJDevs26]

Well re: the Quinn fantasy - you don't necessarily have to trade Hamilton back to Vancouver per se but yeah it's hard to see a scenario where they both fit this year or any year.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Defense is just too expensive with 3 guys making (nearly) 8M+ and another at 5.5, before we even get to kovy.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Zacha was a bad pick because of just how loaded that draft was.

Zacha was a bad pick because when you're picking in the top 7 your amount of assurances you're drafting a great player should far, far outnumber the amount of "ifs" that player needs to answer.

Zacha had a ton of pieces to work with -- he was big and strong and fast with a huge shot and some very intriguing puck skills. But he also had a lot of questions with his vision and anticipation and understanding of the game, and he had yet to put together any consistency at the amateur level. The plain hard fact is that, on the day the Devils drafted Zacha, he was not nearly as good of a hockey player as Meier or Rantanen or Brazil or Conner... it just wasn't close. The amount of projection it took to envision Zacha passing all those guys and becoming better at hockey was simply not realistic.

If your first round pick is, say, #25 overall? I have no problem with a team swinging for the fences on upside. But at #6 overall with so many extraordinary forward talents available, it is now clear that the Devils overdrafted Pavel Zacha. It wasn't the worst pick imaginable because, hey, Zacha is still a decent NHL player and has been for years. But an organization which doesn't learn from their mistakes will never get better at drafting.

 

[dgibb10]

Well re: the Quinn fantasy - you don't necessarily have to trade Hamilton back to Vancouver per se but yeah it's hard to see a scenario where they both fit this year or any year.

I agree, you could ship him elsewhere for futures and send them to Van. But, if Vancouver has even any inklings of not completely tearing it down, I expect getting an elite OFD back would be of interest to them

 

[Zippy316]

Well re: the Quinn fantasy - you don't necessarily have to trade Hamilton back to Vancouver per se but yeah it's hard to see a scenario where they both fit this year or any year.

Yeah in order to fit Quinn in, Hamilton has to go. As someone mentioned earlier, it’s likely Casey goes too in any Quinn trade because Quinn ends up being everything we hope Casey will be.

Probably would be in separate trades but a three way trade involving Hamilton or Hughes would be a lot of fun for the league.

Something like:

To NJD: Quinn Hughes
To DAL: Hamilton
To VAN: Casey + Bourque or Stankoven ++

That would be a doozy.

 

[rockymtnoyster]

 

[Clam Jensen]

Zacha was a bad pick because when you're picking in the top 7 your amount of assurances you're drafting a great player should far, far outnumber the amount of "ifs" that player needs to answer.

Zacha had a ton of pieces to work with -- he was big and strong and fast with a huge shot and some very intriguing puck skills. But he also had a lot of questions with his vision and anticipation and understanding of the game, and he had yet to put together any consistency at the amateur level. The plain hard fact is that, on the day the Devils drafted Zacha, he was not nearly as good of a hockey player as Meier or Rantanen or Brazil or Conner... it just wasn't close. The amount of projection it took to envision Zacha passing all those guys and becoming better at hockey was simply not realistic.

If your first round pick is, say, #25 overall? I have no problem with a team swinging for the fences on upside. But at #6 overall with so many extraordinary forward talents available, it is now clear that the Devils overdrafted Pavel Zacha. It wasn't the worst pick imaginable because, hey, Zacha is still a decent NHL player and has been for years. But an organization which doesn't learn from their mistakes will never get better at drafting.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah in order to fit Quinn in, Hamilton has to go. As someone mentioned earlier, it’s likely Casey goes too in any Quinn trade because Quinn ends up being everything we hope Casey will be.

Probably would be in separate trades but a three way trade involving Hamilton or Hughes would be a lot of fun for the league.

Something like:

To NJD: Quinn Hughes
To DAL: Hamilton
To VAN: Casey + Bourque or Stankoven ++

That would be a doozy.

We just wait and get Quinn for nothing then. We don't need to lose Casey for this

 

[Bone Density]

Lol

 

[longislanddevil]

Can’t say enough good things about Allen and Daws. They have both stepped up and done yeoman’s work in goal.

Speaking of $6 million, Wysh is clearly just throwing shit at a wall here. No chance Marchand leaves Boston and I don’t think Palat goes with that contract.

However… I have to admit, I’ve had stray thoughts of Marchand in a Devils uniform over the last couple days.

Marchand is one of just a few players in the league that I find completely and utterly repugnant. I’d throw up if he ever donned a Devils jersey. He’s such a piece of trash.

 

[dgibb10]

Can’t say enough good things about Allen and Daws. They have both stepped up and done yeoman’s work in goal.

Marchand is one of just a few players in the league that I find completely and utterly repugnant. I’d throw up if he ever donned a Devils jersey. He’s such a piece of trash.

Why are we needing to clear multi season cap to bring in a 1 year deadline rental?

We just wait and get Quinn for nothing then. We don't need to lose Casey for this

Casey is incredibly redundant with Luke and Quinn on the team lmao

 

[Whaddagoal]

how are we still talking about pavel zacha lol

He just never leaves us, always in Devils fans mind. Look, you still have Salmela in your caption!

We got ZachaFlockaFlame, and a few others always keeping Zacha fresh in our minds...even unintentionally.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Haula has become a problem though. Someone went through his underlying numbers this year and they are quite bad.

No idea if he is playing very hurt or washed, but another center probably helps solve a lot of our forward issues.

Having a 3rd line that can draw some tougher matchups and help free up the top lines a bit probably has a major ripple effect on the lineup.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Zacha was a bad pick because of just how loaded that draft was.

Honestly as time goes by, in retrospect, he isn't as bad as we made at the time in those first few years arguing about it as a group.

Early on we were lamenting getting him vs. Barzal because Barzal looked so much better and produced so much early on. Barzal cooled off a lot. Rantonen would have been nice, same with werenski

Sorted by points.

Yeah we could have had barzal, konecy, rantonen, Connor, werenski, Meier even (hah),

But he isn't that bad in Grand scheme. Still Zacha is top 15 production, in class as of today

But as time goes by it seems to be less and less stark.

 

[dgibb10]

Honestly as time goes by, in retrospect, he isn't as bad as we made our in those first few years.

Early on we were lamenting getting him vs. Barzal because Barzal looked so much better and produced so much early on. Barzal cooled off a lot. Rantonen would have been nice, same with werenski

Sorted by points.
View attachment 982800
Yeah we could have had barzal, konecy, rantonen, Connor, werenski, Meier even (hah),

But he isn't that bad in Grand scheme. Still top 15 production, in class.

But as time goes by it seems to be less and less stark.

A lot of games and a lot of primo opportunities.

He accumulated stats during the jersey years while not being a beneficial hockey player to have on the ice.

And then he got placed next to pastrnak

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hamilton would almost certainly be a core piece going back in any Quinn Hughes trade.

Additionally from both sides, including Casey over Nemec makes sense.

Van will be without a long term PPQB. Casey is a great PPQB, Nemec is not.

NJD with Quinn and Luke will have no space on the PP for the next decade. Casey's value there would be wasted.

I'd rather just keep the better player. Casey and Quinn would be pretty slick as a puck moving PP unit. They'd be missing the heavy shot but they might not need it.

PP1:
Bratt - Hischier - J Hughes
Q Hughes - Casey

PP2
Luke, Meier and some other guys.

 

[Whaddagoal]

A lot of games and a lot of primo opportunities.

He accumulated stats during the jersey years while not being a beneficial hockey player to have on the ice.

And then he got placed next to pastrnak

He also accumulated less stats on a very shitty NJD roster except for Nico and hall and Bratt. It all goes together. And both Bratt and Nico weren't as good as they are now.

Sure he isn't the gamebreaker we thought he may grow into, but my point is the argument.... back on this board (your join date is since that time) was people comparing Barzal loss choice, but now it's looking back it isn't as traumatic, IMO, to me. Opinions may vary..

Anywho I guess back to 2025.

 

[dgibb10]

I'd rather just keep the better player. Casey and Quinn would be pretty slick as a puck moving PP unit. They'd be missing the heavy shot but they might not need it.

PP1:
Bratt - Hischier - J Hughes
Q Hughes - Casey

PP2
Luke, Meier and some other guys.

Yes, I understand you want to give seamus casey every opportunity under the sun.

Teams aren't running 2 dmen PPs in 2025 and on.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Yes, I understand you want to give seamus casey every opportunity under the sun.

No, I just want this team to win, which means keeping our best players and playing them in high leverage situations.

I don't understand why you hate him so much. Because he took your golden boy's roster spot?

Teams aren't running 2 dmen PPs in 2025 and on.

They have at times. Quinn and Casey are more skilled than most PP1 forwards.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'd rather just keep the better player. Casey and Quinn would be pretty slick as a puck moving PP unit. They'd be missing the heavy shot but they might not need it.

PP1:
Bratt - Hischier - J Hughes
Q Hughes - Casey

PP2
Luke, Meier and some other guys.

I definitely don't buy that getting Quinn makes Casey redundant. I don't think Casey had a skillset that you only need so much of for starters