Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

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Okay, I might have been making my case upteen times on why I'm hesitant to trade Mercer during the season when this team has a need fro depth scoring, he is good for 20, is young and making a good salary, but I'd have to be silly not to trade him in the right deal. I'd have to say goodbye to Dawson as part of a deal for McCann.
Im lukewarm on Mercer too, but it seems unwise to trade a forward for a forward when we have a lot of nice D pieces to work with and have horrendous forward depth.
 
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Im lukewarm on Mercer too, but it seems unwise to trade a forward for a forward when we have a lot of nice D pieces to work with and have horrendous forward depth.

That's been my arguement the entire time unless the deal makes sense.

I simply think we are a better team with these lines. I hate to say it.

I'd throw a 2nd and a 4th to Montreal for Evans get retention for the rest of the season and then make a deal for McCann.
This is with the admittance that we lose rhe Evans deal trade wise. But it addresses a need.


McCann-Hughes-Bratt
Palat-Hischier-Meier
Cotter-Evans-Noesen
Tatar-Haula-Lazar
 
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That's been my arguement the entire time unless the deal makes sense.

I simply think we are a better team with these lines. I hate to say it.

I'd throw a 2nd anf a 4th to Montreal for Evans gorntetnetnion forbthe rest of the season and then make a deal for McCann.
This is with the admittance that we lose rhe Evans deal trade wise. But it addresses a need


McCann-Hughes-Bratt
Palat-Hischier-Meier
Cotter-Evans-Noesen
Tatar-Haula-Lazar
That’s some nice depth for sure.
 
I

Im lukewarm on Mercer too, but it seems unwise to trade a forward for a forward when we have a lot of nice D pieces to work with and have horrendous forward depth.
Think that is oversimplified though.

If the d-pieces we have like Nemec or Silayev are more valuable then Mercer, then trading the fwd instead of the D makes sense.

Casey for McCann? Does that make more sense from a Devils perspective? Possibly. Might depend on opinions of Mercer and Casey.

I also think you have to include Grits and Ham's in the discussion of fwd depth. They should both be in the US next year, and Grits, if he is an NHL player at all should be an NHL player right out of the gate. Ham's should provide depth while playing in the A. So while those guys are not providing depth this season, they are fairly significant pieces next year.

Also have to consider that Mercer going the other way balances cap. Not sure what it would take to get McCann in under the cap if Casey went the other way.
 
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Okay, I might have been making my case upteen times on why I'm hesitant to trade Mercer during the season when this team has a need fro depth scoring, he is good for 20, is young and making a good salary, but I'd have to be silly not to trade him in the right deal. I'd have to say goodbye to Dawson as part of a deal for McCann.
I wouldn’t give even a passing thought to including Mercer in a deal for McCann. With that said, there’s no way I’m giving up Mercer + Nemec or Casey if that’s the crazy demand of Ron Francis. Mercer + Vilen or Misyul I would do. I’d throw in a 2nd round pick if I had to. It is my understanding that Seattle is VERY light on defense throughout the organization so I’d expect them to ask for a D man.
 
I wouldn’t give even a passing thought to including Mercer in a deal for McCann. With that said, there’s no way I’m giving up Mercer + Nemec or Casey if that’s the crazy demand of Ron Francis. It is my understanding that Seattle is VERY light on defense throughout the organization so I’d expect them to ask for a D man.

Any team that is gonna make a trade with us for a significant player with term, we all have to accept the fact that ONE of our 3 prospect Dmen are going to be the desired return as one of the pieces. Whether I like it or not. And if we are going for it, then it makes sense in certain trades.

McCann
Mahura (LHD depth pending UFA) -$775k
Branden Tanev (pure rental) RETAINED
4th in 2025

For

Dawson Mercer
Seamus Casey

*we hold our 2nds in this trade


This is a go for it move.

Yay or nay?
 
10 days til more Devils hockey....

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Agreed, I have been very bearish on Mercer for over 2 years now and even I don't think I'd give up Mercer AND Nemec unless we're getting a bona fide star back and he's locked up forever.

McCann is nice and a piece I'd like, but he has 1 less goal than Meier and only 4 more points, and people can't stop ripping Timo apart. McCann hit 40 goals and 70 points once and hasn't been particularly close to hitting either again. Ideally he's a 2nd liner.

He's an upgrade over Mercer for sure but the difference between them isn't a defenseman that was taken 2nd overall just three years ago, unless the team is WAY down on Nemec.
 
Nied's chafed against the conservative style of play the Devils asked him to play as well. So I don't think it's accurate to say Luke is developing on a path that is unlike Nied's path. Very similar actually imo. You kind of insinuate Luke is playing some freewheeling style of D, I'm not seeing that at all. I think Luke's D this year has been excellent.

Is Luke allowed more leeway carrying the puck? I think that is fair to say, but the game has also changed a ton since Nied's era when he was more an anomaly. Nowadays D-men carrying the puck is much more common, thus we should expect Luke to carry the puck more then Nied's did even if they are vey similar players when adjusted for era.

But Luke's D looks fantastic to my eyes. A good amount of that is his skating ability, a good amount of it is his stick work, and a good amount of it is his ability to anticipate what puck carriers are going to do. But maybe an underrated aspect of Luke's defensive game is his effort level. Sure his skating ability allows him to make up space on a hard back check, but there is a want that is necessary to make that back check possible. And I think it's seen in small space plays as well where yes a quick first step allows him to get to a puck, but there is still that quick twitch thinking which ques the physical ability. Luke has that.

I kind of question if Nemec has that. Truthfully I think his game looks a little lazy. Yes there is a polish to his game, there seems to be an intelligence to his game, but is he attacking the play in a way that we expect a big time defender to attack the play? I dunno. Maybe what I'm seeing is a guy who is not a great athlete? Maybe what I'm seeing is a guy not in great shape. Maybe these things all go hand in hand?
Good points all. No, if anything, I'm crediting Luke for being excellent on D - there's room for improvement but I think his D is terrific and has been all season. He will get stronger and more physical with age, and I think his stick work is improving and he's even doing better around the crease and trying people up. He's magnificent on the back heck. All of the facets of his game are coming together in our zone.

My criticism is his decisions with the puck on his stick. We know he can do just about anything but I think he needs to make the simpler play all over the ice and that will result in more goals for him personally and for the team in general.

I wouldn't say Nemec is lazy, but maybe timid. And I think that is just experience. When he was guaranteed a spot bc of injury last year, we saw him more aggressive offensively. I find he's usually in the right place doing the right thing, and looks more polished. And yeah, maybe conditioning/athleticism is playing a role

I don't disagree that Luke can make some very poor and costly decisions but the difference is that he dominates play the majority of the time he's out there and It's reasonable to expect those mistakes to minimize as he gains more experience and continues to improve. When a player has elite physical traits, there's a lot longer of runway developmentally, that's why you'll often see players with elite physical tools go higher in a draft even with underwhelming statistical performance.

I'd very much disagree with you're read on Nemec though. He may not make the obvious big mistake that Luke is capable of making at times but I've seen him numerous amounts of times be out of position leading to odd man rush opportunities and not having the skating to recover that Luke does. Luke is clearly superior in all 3 zones compared to Nemec.

It's been a tiny sample set this year for nemec, and I think if we went by the first ten games of Hughes this year we could have said the same of him.
 
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Agreed, I have been very bearish on Mercer for over 2 years now and even I don't think I'd give up Mercer AND Nemec unless we're getting a bona fide star back and he's locked up forever.

McCann is nice and a piece I'd like, but he has 1 less goal than Meier and only 4 more points, and people can't stop ripping Timo apart. McCann hit 40 goals and 70 points once and hasn't been particularly close to hitting either again. Ideally he's a 2nd liner.

He's an upgrade over Mercer for sure but the difference between them isn't a defenseman that was taken 2nd overall just three years ago, unless the team is WAY down on Nemec.
And that's with PP1 usage
 
Any team that is gonna make a trade with us for a significant player with term, we all have to accept the fact that ONE of our 3 prospect Dmen are going to be the desired return as one of the pieces. Whether I like it or not. And if we are going for it, then it makes sense in certain trades.

McCann
Mahura (LHD depth pending UFA) -$775k
Branden Tanev (pure rental) RETAINED
4th in 2025

For

Dawson Mercer
Seamus Casey

*we hold our 2nds in this trade


This is a go for it move.

Yay or nay?
Hard Nay.
 
Any team that is gonna make a trade with us for a significant player with term, we all have to accept the fact that ONE of our 3 prospect Dmen are going to be the desired return as one of the pieces. Whether I like it or not. And if we are going for it, then it makes sense in certain trades.

McCann
Mahura (LHD depth pending UFA) -$775k
Branden Tanev (pure rental) RETAINED
4th in 2025

For

Dawson Mercer
Seamus Casey

*we hold our 2nds in this trade


This is a go for it move.

Yay or nay?
Not moving Casey in a deal. He had some very good moments in his limited NHL games and is having an Allstar rookie season in the AHL. He's to valuable longterm to move for a rental piece or even one with an extra year or so attached.
 
We will not get a top 6 player under term this season without losing one of our 3 top prospect Dmen. It will be the ask unless Fitz is able to go after a player in which for whatever reason we have leverage on.

If we are going for it this season, that type of trade is worth the risk in my opinion. If we can walk out of a trade with McCann and two rentals, still have Nemec, Silayev, Yegorov, Grtsyuk and our 2 2nds, you have to strongly consider it.

Otherwise it is trading our 2nds for a couple of depth 3rd liners. Which is fine also! And might make the most sense.
 
I wouldn't say Nemec is lazy, but maybe timid. And I think that is just experience. When he was guaranteed a spot bc of injury last year, we saw him more aggressive offensively. I find he's usually in the right place doing the right thing, and looks more polished. And yeah, maybe conditioning/athleticism is playing a role



It's been a tiny sample set this year for nemec, and I think if we went by the first ten games of Hughes this year we could have said the same of him.
I know it's a heavy word, but I think effort level for pro athletes are a high bar.

Nemec's effort level in the AHL probably looks fine. Im sure it looked fine in whatever euro league he was in. He's talented enough where he is/was able to win battles and control play without a higher level of effort. But in the NHL I'm not seeing a guy who just doesn't look to be playing in a high gear. Maybe that does come with experience. Maybe he does realize he needs to up that effort level, both on and off the ice, but to me, right now, that looks like something he does need improve.

Not a flattering comparison but I saw Zacha as similar. Had talent, and had smarts, but not the effort, and also similarly the athleticism. I think we could also call his game timid.
 
I know it's a heavy word, but I think effort level for pro athletes are a high bar.

Nemec's effort level in the AHL probably looks fine. Im sure it looked fine in whatever euro league he was in. He's talented enough where he is/was able to win battles and control play without a higher level of effort. But in the NHL I'm not seeing a guy who just doesn't look to be playing in a high gear. Maybe that does come with experience. Maybe he does realize he needs to up that effort level, both on and off the ice, but to me, right now, that looks like something he does need improve.

Not a flattering comparison but I saw Zacha as similar. Had talent, and had smarts, but not the effort, and also similarly the athleticism. I think we could also call his game timid.
As I pointed out in another post, our NHL sampleset of a 20 yr old Nemec is pretty limited. He also has had the opposite of experience of sheltered Luke, who's defense has only come around and might be at least partially attributed to Pesce covering for him and mentoring him.

If Luke can get one of the top defensemen in the NHL caught looking flatfooted with bad pinches and blueline giveaways, I *really* find it unfair to be saying anything about the Nemec half of a Luke or Casey pairing.

Edit: I liked Zacha, and I think his development was super stunted by casting him as a defensively responsible 3c on a terrible terrible team that only this year had figured out what team defense might look like. If he stepped in to a limited sheltered role on a good team or tore up the ahl for two years, I think there's a good chance he'd have played less timidly, worried less about mistakes and scored more. We wrecked his development.
 
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The Devils do not need to address the 3C need and another scoring forward in the same deal.
It does not make sense to puck up McCann and other pieces without a center coming back if it's rhe only trade.
 
The Devils do not need to address the 3C need and another scoring forward in the same deal.
It does not make sense to puck up McCann and other pieces without a center coming back if it's rhe only trade.

Yanni Gourde is the center.

Erik Haula sucks. They absolutely do need to address 3C.
 
If we are trading Nemec we need a true 2/3 C who predominantly can play that position. I don’t want a winger who can also play C.

I don’t see the Kracken going for

Nemec
Haula

For

McCann
Gourde
 
I mean I am still operating under the assumption that one of Hamilton or Palat will be gone this summer.
If you're shipping out Nemec to pay for McCann you realistically cannot move Hamilton.

If you're paying to dump palat, again, fill out both bottom 6 C spots, a winger, and a dman with 10.5 mill via UFA.

Let's see it
 
Honest question (since I'm old and my memory sucks)

When's the last time a top prospect was traded at the trade deadline? I only remember teams trading their 3rd or 4th best, never a top prospect.
 

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