Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[Mgd31]

Just to continue to enforce the point that we have a good team here as we hit February. We're in the top third (even the top quarter) in the league in a lot of key categories.

Tied for 7th in the NHL in Points with 64
Tied for 10th in the NHL in Points Percentage with .604%.
Tied for 5th in the NHL in Regulation Wins with 26.
8th in the NHL in Reg/OT wins with 29.
10th in the NHL in GF with 164. (11th in GF per game)
5th in the NHL in GA with 133. (4th best in GA per game).
Tied for 5th in the NHL with a +31 goal differential.
2nd in PP%
5th in PK%

Our biggest struggle when diving deeper into things has been winning 1 goal games, but I believe it was pointed out that a lot of that has been the breaks in OT (or shootout presumably). We're 7-5 in regulation in 1 goal decisions, but we've lost 6 games in 3-on-3 or shootout. So even that statistic is skewed.

Thanks, yea we have not had much luck in one goal games. Funny enough, during this 10 losses in 16 games slide since the break, we have a positive goal differential, since most of our losses have been by a goal.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

buffalo sucks ass i am confident in victory

These are the teams we are worst against....

 

[theoptimist]

I’m genuinely confused what you’re arguing for and I’m very certain no GMs/NHL owners have a problem with mutual contract terminations.

They happen pretty often with minor league players who are unhappy in the AHL and typically want to go overseas to play. Most NHL players have to be bought out though because they want their guaranteed money.

Saad signed a 5 year/4.5m deal as UFA at 28 and fell off a cliff at 32. That happens and it’s why giving older middle six guys term can be dangerous.

Saad did them a massive favor by refusing to play in the AHL to make his last ~5m. They could only bury 1.15m of is 4.5m. 3.35m of dead cap space is objectively bad.



They spent 15m and got 19-26 goals a year from Saad, that’s why they signed him. He stopped scoring, and they have other forwards they want to put on scoring lines, so getting out of the 9m commitment is a big win.

It's interesting to me, but why did PK not mutually terminate his contract? He stayed with us for the season and just retired afterward. We were doing worse in 2022, then the Blues are today. He's never won a cup, he played 77 games that season, and appeared healthy (unless I'm missing something). He couldn't force his way to a contender on league minimum like Saad? We were open to making hockey trades and we had the cap too. I remember Fitz saying he thought his phone wasn't working because people weren't calling him back.

Is Saad's contract really that atrocious? STL could have traded him this summer. How did we violate the spirit of the CBA and get fined but the NHL allows teams to get out of their big contracts let alone signing them to it? That contracts are 'mutually' terminated. What's stopping teams from diluting roles of guys they want out? It can be 'mutual' but I still don't believe a guy who won 2 cups is worth league minimum and Palat, 2 years ago, signed a $36M contract. Maybe he's going the Toffoli route (contender this year, developing team next year)....

There is no one to blame here, I'm just in disbelief that the Blues couldn't trade the guy. I learned today the Blues have been trying to trade Saad for some time. And nothing? There wasn't a single hockey trade, even with retention? It's just too on the nose for him to go to EDM.

I’m starting to get the impression that you don’t actually understand what transpired from start to finish, because your questions literally make no sense.

I'm trying to learn.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

PK Subban made a ton of money in his career, still works in hockey and is a household name for even casual people let alone hockey fans. Him not winning a cup doesn't bother his actual legacy for being known. Brandon Saad probably asked to get cut so he can go elsewhere and try to make a bit more money in his career of what he has left. He won twice with Chicago so maybe it's just that competitor in him to latch elsewhere with a contender. Who knows? Every circumstance is different

 

[forceten]

Boqvist on waivers. But … Adam

 

[NJDevs26]

Yeah tbh I don't think winning was the most important thing in PK's career at that point, and I'm not sure it would have been that easy for him to catch on with anyone with how much his skills had diminished anyway - he certainly didn't in the upcoming offseason. So what would have been the advantage for him to leave millions on the table when at best he MIGHT have been a #6 or #7 on a borderline playoff team? Plus it's not like the Devils needed to clear his cap space that season so they were happy to continue to use him (since he was still better than the dreck that would have played) and have him around as big bro to Jack and the other kids if they couldn't trade him.

You act like a it's a player only decision to terminate their contract, the word mutual is used for a reason - management has to have a reason to let the player go as well. If Jack Hughes walked into Fitz's office and wanted a contract termination that isn't gonna fly lol...if anything, management's the one that would usually broach it before the player - it's not like the majority of players are going to walk away from millions of dollars regardless of their current role.

The conversation generally goes like the one with Saad probably did, we waived you, nobody claimed you - we tried to trade you and nobody would trade for you, so you have two choices - mutual termination or ride the buses in Springfield.

 

[dgibb10]

View attachment 969606

It's interesting to me, but why did PK not mutually terminate his contract? He stayed with us for the season and just retired afterward. We were doing worse in 2022, then the Blues are today. He's never won a cup, he played 77 games that season, and appeared healthy (unless I'm missing something). He couldn't force his way to a contender on league minimum like Saad? We were open to making hockey trades and we had the cap too. I remember Fitz saying he thought his phone wasn't working because people weren't calling him back.

Is Saad's contract really that atrocious? STL could have traded him this summer. How did we violate the spirit of the CBA and get fined but the NHL allows teams to get out of their big contracts let alone signing them to it? That contracts are 'mutually' terminated. What's stopping teams from diluting roles of guys they want out? It can be 'mutual' but I still don't believe a guy who won 2 cups is worth league minimum and Palat, 2 years ago, signed a $36M contract. Maybe he's going the Toffoli route (contender this year, developing team next year)....

There is no one to blame here, I'm just in disbelief that the Blues couldn't trade the guy. I learned today the Blues have been trying to trade Saad for some time. And nothing? There wasn't a single hockey trade, even with retention? It's just too on the nose for him to go to EDM.



I'm trying to learn.

Because PK subban wanted his 9 million dollars a year.

You seem to be missing this crucial factor.

MOST PLAYERS ARE NOT WILLING TO GIVE UP MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

 

[MasterofGrond]

What happened:

• Saad signed a contract 4.5x5
• Saad played on that contract for 3 years, playing alright, enough to justify his deal. Everyone is happy.
• Saad's 4th year on that deal, his play declined significantly. He is no longer worth anything near his contract. The Blues are no longer happy
• The Blues tried to trade Saad. No takers
• The Blues waived Saad, hoping someone would reconsider and take him for free, or at least saving 1.15M in cap space and getting a roster spot they can use to develop a player more clearly in their long term plans
• No takers, Saad will be assigned to their AHL affiliate. Saad does not want to play in the AHL because (ignoring his contract) he feels he is an NHL player. I agree. NHL sources agree. The Blues do not want him in the AHL, ideally, because that's burning 3.35M in cap space on a guy who isn't playing for the team
• Saad suggests contract termination. Saad forgoes the remainder of his salary this year as well as next year. Saad gets to look for an NHL job, unburdened by his overpriced contract. The Blues get out from a 3.35M cap penalty.

At what point in any of that, does this look like quitting on the team? If anything, the Blues quit on him, and then he did them a big favor anyway. He's actually sacrificing something to get what he wants. The Blues get what they want AND save money, it's a huge coup for the.

 

[Mgd31]

Why is this in the Devils Team Discussion?

 

[RSeen]

I would like to see us pick up Saad just so we have some depth. Still missing a top 6 forward and our bottom six is a weakness still.

 

[NJDevs26]

Why is this in the Devils Team Discussion?

Because someone brought up the possibility of Saad signing with us and one guy went on a tangent about how he didn't want him since he 'quit' on the Blues.

 

[AfroThunder396]

View attachment 969606

It's interesting to me, but why did PK not mutually terminate his contract? He stayed with us for the season and just retired afterward. We were doing worse in 2022, then the Blues are today. He's never won a cup, he played 77 games that season, and appeared healthy (unless I'm missing something). He couldn't force his way to a contender on league minimum like Saad? We were open to making hockey trades and we had the cap too. I remember Fitz saying he thought his phone wasn't working because people weren't calling him back.

Is Saad's contract really that atrocious? STL could have traded him this summer. How did we violate the spirit of the CBA and get fined but the NHL allows teams to get out of their big contracts let alone signing them to it? That contracts are 'mutually' terminated. What's stopping teams from diluting roles of guys they want out? It can be 'mutual' but I still don't believe a guy who won 2 cups is worth league minimum and Palat, 2 years ago, signed a $36M contract. Maybe he's going the Toffoli route (contender this year, developing team next year)....

There is no one to blame here, I'm just in disbelief that the Blues couldn't trade the guy. I learned today the Blues have been trying to trade Saad for some time. And nothing? There wasn't a single hockey trade, even with retention? It's just too on the nose for him to go to EDM.



I'm trying to learn.

You have to understand that "mutual termination" means both parties - the player and the team - have veto power over each other. If the player wants to terminate and the team doesn't, too bad for the player. If the team wants to terminate and the player doesn't, too bad for the team.

With PK - why would the Devils terminate? They didn't have anyone better to play defense for them and they didn't need the cap space. You're also assuming that PK would rather have a Cup than $9M and we really have no idea if that's correct or not.

With Palat - why would Palat terminate? He's having fun playing with one of the best centers in the world and is owed somewhere in the neighborhood of $12M on the remainder of his deal. Why would he throw that in the garbage? And what contending team is going to look at an aging Palat and go out of their way to sign him for a playoff run?

It's very rare to find a situation where both parties benefit from a mutual termination. Either the team loses an asset for free, or the player misses out on money they are entitled to. Saad is the weird exception where STL doesn't care about assets (because they want flexibility at the deadline more) and Saad doesn't care about money (because he wants to play in the NHL more). Termination is a win/win here.

 

[dgibb10]

You have to understand that "mutual termination" means both parties - the player and the team - have veto power over each other. If the player wants to terminate and the team doesn't, too bad for the player. If the team wants to terminate and the player doesn't, too bad for the team.

With PK - why would the Devils terminate? They didn't have anyone better to play defense for them and they didn't need the cap space. You're also assuming that PK would rather have a Cup than $9M and we really have no idea if that's correct or not.

With Palat - why would Palat terminate? He's having fun playing with one of the best centers in the world and is owed somewhere in the neighborhood of $12M on the remainder of his deal. Why would he throw that in the garbage? And what contending team is going to look at an aging Palat and go out of their way to sign him for a playoff run?

It's very rare to find a situation where both parties benefit from a mutual termination. Either the team loses an asset for free, or the player misses out on money they are entitled to. Saad is the weird exception where STL doesn't care about assets (because they want flexibility at the deadline more) and Saad doesn't care about money (because he wants to play in the NHL more). Termination is a win/win here.

It's also definitely not something you can approach a player about. You aren't gonna go to Palat or Subban and risk pissing them off in the hopes they'll maybe want to give up millions of dollars to, in palats case, get worse linemates on a worse team for less money????? (Legitimately why on earth would palat ever possibly agree to this) Or in subbans case give up a ridiculous amount of money.

This isn't something you plan or approach a player about as a threatening technique.

 

[devilsblood]

Rock that keeps tigers away works. I do think the 3rd period of last night's game is a very rare case where having MacDermid helps keeps things under control, but normally the game is too close to play him in a 3rd period.

The team's record with him in the lineup has no connection to anything. He is the least important player and plays the least amount of ice time.

Is this a caveman throwing big rocks at tigers thing? I'm guessing that did work to some extent.

But there is the potential effect of having Mac in the lineup keeps other teams in check, and there is also the potential effect of Mac being in the lineup giving our guys a little spunk. We looked like a pretty spunky team last night. The players have said his presence gives them a mental edge.

And clearly Mac stinks as a hockey player, but he continues to get contracts and get into hockey games. Keefe put him in over Halonen, who is pretty clearly a better player, after the team was beat up the night before, and the team responded well.

 

[devilsblood]

I think the question with Saad is not why he was willing to terminate, but why the team didn't want him anymore. Was he that bad? Did he stop playing hard? Was he a locker room problem?

 

[Cheddabombs]

 

[devilsblood]

It's very rare to find a situation where both parties benefit from a mutual termination. Either the team loses an asset for free, or the player misses out on money they are entitled to. Saad is the weird exception where STL doesn't care about assets (because they want flexibility at the deadline more) and Saad doesn't care about money (because he wants to play in the NHL more). Termination is a win/win here.

I'm doubting the Blues turned down assets here. Not without retaining. They played hardball and Saad made the sacrifice because he wanted to stay in the league.

I just wonder why St Louis decided to squeeze him out.

View attachment 969646

Day 1 of a 3 day break.

 

[dgibb10]

From a brief look it looks a like a bit of an unlucky season for saad.

at 5v5: 7.1% on ice shooting %, 0.891 SV% behind him

Individually shooting 9.3% this year after shooting 16.5% for the half decade previous

 

[None Shall Pass]

Changing the subject a little bit:

I just checked the actual standings for the first time in a while and it's kind of impressive how locked we are to 3rd in the Metro even with the slump, with an outside chance at 2nd. 53 games in and we're almost definitely going to be playing the Canes in the 1st round.

We're at 53 GP with 64 pts. The Canes have 66 pts but are at 51 GP.

1st Wild Card is Boston with 56 pts, 2nd is Tampa at 55 pts. But they're both Atlantic Division so it doesn't matter.

Closest Metro team behind us? CBJ, with 55 points. Nine points behind us! They have 3 games in hand, but even if they win all three (They won't, they're 24-26), they're behind us.

Like I thought a lot of what was going on with the Doom And Gloom Committee was overblown, but I never realized how overblown it was.

 

[dgibb10]

Changing the subject a little bit:

I just checked the actual standings for the first time in a while and it's kind of impressive how locked we are to 3rd in the Metro even with the slump, with an outside chance at 2nd. 53 games in and we're almost definitely going to be playing the Canes in the 1st round.

We're at 53 GP with 64 pts. The Canes have 66 pts but are at 51 GP.

1st Wild Card is Boston with 56 pts, 2nd is Tampa at 55 pts. But they're both Atlantic Division so it doesn't matter.

Closest Metro team behind us? CBJ, with 55 points. Nine points behind us! They have 3 games in hand, but even if they win all three (They won't, they're 24-26), they're behind us.

Like I thought a lot of what was going on with the Doom And Gloom Committee was overblown, but I never realized how overblown it was.

Also, they just lost Sean Monahan for the next 2 months.

 

[Ripshot 43]

I missed you guys

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Changing the subject a little bit:

I just checked the actual standings for the first time in a while and it's kind of impressive how locked we are to 3rd in the Metro even with the slump, with an outside chance at 2nd. 53 games in and we're almost definitely going to be playing the Canes in the 1st round.

We're at 53 GP with 64 pts. The Canes have 66 pts but are at 51 GP.

1st Wild Card is Boston with 56 pts, 2nd is Tampa at 55 pts. But they're both Atlantic Division so it doesn't matter.

Closest Metro team behind us? CBJ, with 55 points. Nine points behind us! They have 3 games in hand, but even if they win all three (They won't, they're 24-26), they're behind us.

Like I thought a lot of what was going on with the Doom And Gloom Committee was overblown, but I never realized how overblown it was.

Let’s get back to Saadposting

 

[Devils731]

Changing the subject a little bit:

I just checked the actual standings for the first time in a while and it's kind of impressive how locked we are to 3rd in the Metro even with the slump, with an outside chance at 2nd. 53 games in and we're almost definitely going to be playing the Canes in the 1st round.

We're at 53 GP with 64 pts. The Canes have 66 pts but are at 51 GP.

1st Wild Card is Boston with 56 pts, 2nd is Tampa at 55 pts. But they're both Atlantic Division so it doesn't matter.

Closest Metro team behind us? CBJ, with 55 points. Nine points behind us! They have 3 games in hand, but even if they win all three (They won't, they're 24-26), they're behind us.

Like I thought a lot of what was going on with the Doom And Gloom Committee was overblown, but I never realized how overblown it was.

Also, how boring the playoff seeding system is.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Changing the subject a little bit:

I just checked the actual standings for the first time in a while and it's kind of impressive how locked we are to 3rd in the Metro even with the slump, with an outside chance at 2nd. 53 games in and we're almost definitely going to be playing the Canes in the 1st round.

We're at 53 GP with 64 pts. The Canes have 66 pts but are at 51 GP.

1st Wild Card is Boston with 56 pts, 2nd is Tampa at 55 pts. But they're both Atlantic Division so it doesn't matter.

Closest Metro team behind us? CBJ, with 55 points. Nine points behind us! They have 3 games in hand, but even if they win all three (They won't, they're 24-26), they're behind us.

Like I thought a lot of what was going on with the Doom And Gloom Committee was overblown, but I never realized how overblown it was.

I don't think it's very "overblown." Nothing is guaranteed here and there are 29 games left. Allen's play last night was very reassuring. But if Columbus wins their three games at hand they trail us by only 1.5 games. 3 points. In a dead sprint to the line that's a couple of wins that will separate the two clubs. And we play them head to head also at least once, maybe more.

We should be in great shape if we continue winning. But we are locked in a pretty tight race at the moment as I see it.

 

[Devils731]

I don't think it's very "overblown." Nothing is guaranteed here and there are 29 games left. Allen's play last night was very reassuring. But if Columbus wins their three games at hand they trail us by only 1.5 games. 3 points. In a dead sprint to the line that's a couple of wins that will separate the two clubs. And we play them head to head also at least once, maybe more.

We should be in great shape if we continue winning. But we are locked in a pretty tight race at the moment as I see it.

As a relatable, do you think Florida and Toronto fans are seriously concerned about making the playoffs? They’re in a similar spot as the Devils.