Toggle sidebar

Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
NJDfan86 said:
What “situation” calls for trading Nemec for a middling forward?
Click to expand...
He's a 20 year old center who was drafted 8th two years ago playing 14 minutes a night in his first nhl season.

If you didn't like him as a prospect, thats fine. But calling him a middling forward without contextualizing where he's at in his career is pretty disingenuous. That would be like me saying Nemec is a number 8 d-man / ahl defender.
 
Forge said:
He's a 20 year old center who was drafted 8th two years ago playing 14 minutes a night in his first nhl season.

If you didn't like him as a prospect, thats fine. But calling him a middling forward without contextualizing where he's at in his career is pretty disingenuous. That would be like me saying Nemec is a number 8 d-man / ahl defender.
Click to expand...

It’s not disingenuous at all - he wasn’t able to out score the defensemen that you are advocating trading him for in the AHL, you think that Kasper is the best you can do for Nemec?
 
NJDfan86 said:
It’s not disingenuous at all - he wasn’t able to out score the defensemen that you are advocating trading him for in the AHL, you think that Kasper is the best you can do for Nemec?
Click to expand...

You could probably even out the value a little more, but I don't think the gap is as big as you want it to be.

We just saw what Jiricek got traded for. I don't think you're getting a ton more than that and I Don't think that kasper goes for a ton less than that. Could you do better than Kasper? Depends on how you feel about Kasper as a player, I suppose. There will be other potential fits out there. Personally, I'd want a center coming back which limits my own interests
 
devilsblood said:
I think calling him a ppg player in the AHL is misleading given he's played all of 5 games.

2 pts in 26 games for TB before they sent him down.

Haven't looked but is a he good faceoff guy? Can he be counted on at all defensively?

It would be a move that I could maybe see, but I'm doubting there is much there.
Click to expand...
Goncalves was 58 points in 69 games last year and has improved his production every year. Now 7 points in 6 games. I don't think calling him a ppg AHL player is unreasonable

Triumph said:
Because it's not free. The Devils have a 21 man roster right now (technically 22 because Haula isn't on IR, but they have 21 healthy bodies), they are desperately trying to save space for the deadline, and adding a waiver claim means losing a lot of that space.
Click to expand...
Good point - and I hadn't considered it. I still think a waiver claim could make sense, but the cap situation means they have to be a little more sure it's the right fit.
 
Guttersniped said:
Feel your pain but Rossi is their current 1C and they just traded for Jiricek so I don’t see them doing it.
Click to expand...
Never understood why Rossi was in Guerin’s doghouse and always the subject of trade rumors

I remember hearing some say Rossi’s skill set was too similar to Nico’s and that he’d be redundant. Holtz was a clear need pick. This is an example why I believe teams should most always go BPA. Who knows though…maybe the organization had Holtz ranked higher than others still on the board. That’s a little scary to me. Oh well…
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guttersniped
You gotta wonder what the devils were thinking with their draft strategy. I mean they had dougie inked drafted Luke then go nemec casey then the Russian kid last year. It’s great on paper but dang was trading down now an option?
 
JrFischer54 said:
You gotta wonder what the devils were thinking with their draft strategy. I mean they had dougie inked drafted Luke then go nemec casey then the Russian kid last year. It’s great on paper but dang was trading down now an option?
Click to expand...
Things change fast. Last year, Nemec played top 4. DeSimone played significant minutes.

Meanwhile, Devils had Hughes, Hischier, Haula, McLeod down the middle, with McLeod looking like a future 3C.
 
Forge said:
I'm not so sure about that given current situations
Click to expand...
It's significant overpay because Nemec is doing fine and he isn't asking for a trade. He said by himself that he doesn't do it. Si the price was higher than it was for Jirricek, price is even higher now. Jiricek has something like 2 points in 11 games for Iowa, Nemec has 15 points in 16 games after cold post injury start. He us better skater with better mobility. Edvinsson started to be regular not in his second year but Detroit are very happy with him now. Devils don't need to hurry -Nemec us doing everything. And players like Kasper never penciled as 100% top 6 player, Nemec has clear top 4 potential with real top 2 ceiling. And he showing it on lower levels, Kasper never looked like player with top line potential.

If we want just dump him we can stop hurting our brain and trade him for Anderson, but it would be much better to have ex 2 overall pick who is doing everything right to be regular top 4 or even top 2 two way defenseman. Because it is reasonable, smart and adequate. Devils have some holes in the roster like third line center or even complimentary top 6 winger, but with our tight cap we don't have opportunity to land player with bigger salary, any other option can be dealt for less or be found on the free agent market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guttersniped and Forge
Guadana said:
It's significant overpay because Nemec is doing fine and he isn't asking for a trade. He said by himself that he doesn't do it. Si the price was higher than it was for Jirricek, price is even higher now. Jiricek has something like 2 points in 11 games for Iowa, Nemec has 15 points in 16 games after cold post injury start. He us better skater with better mobility. Edvinsson started to be regular not in his second year but Detroit are very happy with him now. Devils don't need to hurry -Nemec us doing everything. And players like Kasper never penciled as 100% top 6 player, Nemec has clear top 4 potential with real top 2 ceiling. And he showing it on lower levels, Kasper never looked like player with top line potential.

If we want just dump him we can stop hurting our brain and trade him for Anderson, but it would be much better to have ex 2 overall pick who is doing everything right to be regular top 4 or even top 2 two way defenseman. Because it is reasonable, smart and adequate. Devils have some holes in the roster like third line center or even complimentary top 6 winger, but with our tight cap we don't have opportunity to land player with bigger salary, any other option can be dealt for less or be found on the free agent market.
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of this except that the price would drastically shift over 11 games in a new environment (where he's also bounced between MN and Iowa) for Jiricek versus Nemec's 15 in 16 "after a cold start". I don't think GMs often think too much in small samples like this.

I would hold on to Nemec and see what is what, but beyond this year I don't know how viable that is if he's not in the NHL. While he's not asking for a trade yet (and I wouldn't expect him to ask for a trade yet), its certainly not out of the realm of possibility moving forward, especially if they re-sign Kovacevic and don't move Dougie. Hell, I'd ask for a trade if I were Nemec at that point. And that's before considering Casey in team building decision making.

I don't expect Nemec to get moved, but I think it's a little naive to act like the possibility may not exist. Most likely scenario is still that Kovacevic is simply gone next year.
 
JrFischer54 said:
You gotta wonder what the devils were thinking with their draft strategy. I mean they had dougie inked drafted Luke then go nemec casey then the Russian kid last year. It’s great on paper but dang was trading down now an option?
Click to expand...
I was so mad that they didn't go with Cooley or Wright. Was thinking they would take Wright and was surprised by Nemec.
 
WOW. These people are really spinning that quote into something when it is literally nothing.

In HINDSIGHT, I'd have preferred Cooley, and it has little to do with Nemec and everything to do with our trash heap bottom six and Cooley would be an elite 3C (Sorry M3S) and Mercer would likely do fine next to him. Casey would move up the chart and we'd still have all these D men that could play in the league.

There's no way that Misyul and Vilen and Orlov and the like are worse than Kevin Bahl. I think all of them can play at least 6D in this league.
 
Forge said:
You could probably even out the value a little more, but I don't think the gap is as big as you want it to be.

We just saw what Jiricek got traded for. I don't think you're getting a ton more than that and I Don't think that kasper goes for a ton less than that. Could you do better than Kasper? Depends on how you feel about Kasper as a player, I suppose. There will be other potential fits out there. Personally, I'd want a center coming back which limits my own interests
Click to expand...
Nemec has been much better than Jiricek in both the AHL and NHL so I don’t know why we would get less - and Jiricek returned a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th plus a player.

You’d rather have Marco Kasper than that return? Which would likely be higher due to Nemec being a better player and prospect.
 
NJDfan86 said:
Nemec has been much better than Jiricek in both the AHL and NHL so I don’t know why we would get less - and Jiricek returned a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th plus a player.

You’d rather have Marco Kasper than that return? Which would likely be higher due to Nemec being a better player and prospect.
Click to expand...
Okay, we are a little lost in the semantics here, which may be my fault, but lets run with some of this. I simply don't think the gap is as big as you think it is, that's all. I don't think there's "significant" variance in the trade values.

I didn't say that the devils would get less than Jiricek returns....I said I don't think you're getting significantly more. And if the Red Wings were to move Kasper right now, I don't think that they get significantly less than that return. So you can even out, as I said.

Maybe it's Nemec for Kasper + a 2. I don't consider a 2nd a significant asset, but it can even that kind of value out as described. That's fine. I'm not going to fight the idea that Nemec has more value than Kasper, I think I simply disagree with the level of that disparity.

That Jiricek return just isn't all that great to me because I think those mid round picks have negligible value, especially out of the flat cap. So do I care about a mid - late first, second, third and 4/5th flip and B prospect as opposed to Kasper + 2? Not really. I don't think either offer is particularly better than the other or anything. I'd like Kasper more than a mid-late first round pick in the coming draft, I think, but I'm not prospect expert or anything, so that may be a bad take. I like the Jiricek deal more if you have something in the hopper for those mid round picks.

But there will be other options for Nemec as well, and there are probably going to be a lot of options out there that I would like a lot more than a Kasper return and there will be some i like less.
 
And to be clear, I think Nemec getting moved is the least likely of the Kovacevic / Dougie / Nemec potential moves in the off season. My gut says he goes nowhere. I'm just kicking around some notions because I don't think it's an impossibility that he does get moved.
 
Forge said:
Okay, we are a little lost in the semantics here, which may be my fault, but lets run with some of this. I simply don't think the gap is as big as you think it is, that's all. I don't think there's "significant" variance in the trade values.

I didn't say that the devils would get less than Jiricek returns....I said I don't think you're getting significantly more. And if the Red Wings were to move Kasper right now, I don't think that they get significantly less than that return. So you can even out, as I said.

Maybe it's Nemec for Kasper + a 2. I don't consider a 2nd a significant asset, but it can even that kind of value out as described. That's fine. I'm not going to fight the idea that Nemec has more value than Kasper, I think I simply disagree with the level of that disparity.

That Jiricek return just isn't all that great to me because I think those mid round picks have negligible value, especially out of the flat cap. So do I care about a mid - late first, second, third and 4/5th flip and B prospect as opposed to Kasper + 2? Not really. I don't think either offer is particularly better than the other or anything. I'd like Kasper more than a mid-late first round pick in the coming draft, I think, but I'm not prospect expert or anything, so that may be a bad take. I like the Jiricek deal more if you have something in the hopper for those mid round picks.

But there will be other options for Nemec as well, and there are probably going to be a lot of options out there that I would like a lot more than a Kasper return and there will be some i like less.
Click to expand...

I believe you are simply drastically overrating Kasper, and underrating Nemec - we simply won’t agree that the values are even close.

I know everyone is desperately looking for a long term solution at 3c, but there would be much better alternatives if we made Nemec available.
 
NJDfan86 said:
I believe you are simply drastically overrating Kasper, and underrating Nemec - we simply won’t agree that the values are even close.

I know everyone is desperately looking for a long term solution at 3c, but there would be much better alternatives if we made Nemec available.
Click to expand...
Well, if you want to target a 3c, that's where I start to throw Dougie out there. Makes him much more movable if you're taking a guy like Copp back. Or Strome from the Ducks. Pageau from the Islanders. Guys with cap hits that are probably a little too high for what they bring but are still functional players who fit that 3C role fine. I don't necessarily think that you have to do that, kind of depends on who is on his trade list, but being able to take back those kind of guys probably makes it easier to move him in general.

Then you can unload Haula (only a 6 team no trade) for future considerations to get out from under the 3.1
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom